Illusion

LeeG, Thanks for that post. It helped validate my initial post. I feel the same way about my weird ISY link table. I do not know if it is repeatable, and I was not sure I should even post about it, but is was such an obvious and serious anomaly I thought I should mention it in case others see it. And to summarize: The ISY link table reference for my KPL showed only 2 links, even though the ISY showed the KPL in lots of scenes and it should have 59 links. The ISY link table did not even have a link to each button, so the ISY was not even aware of button presses on the KPL until I did a full delete and add back.

I am getting to the Admin Console through the stand alone Java application.

It shuts down on its own. It even warns you it is going to when you begin the 'replace with' function via a pop up window.

Yes, the Admin Console always quits when doing a 'replace with' function; however, this is the first time I have re-opened the Admin Console and had writes still occurring. I am likely going to be doing some additional 'replace with' functions later today. I will stay aware of continuing writes after the Admin Console closes.

I seriously doubt this has anything to do with this beta release but I did have a problem today. I replaced a 6 button KPL using the ISY 'replace with' function. When I was done, I reopened the Admin Console and there were still writes occurring. When they were done, I tested the KPL but it did not work at all like the previous one. I factory reset it, did a restore. Same failure of function. I did a link read and compare and the ISY showed only 2 links for the device, both in the device link table and what the ISY thought it should have. This of course was totally wrong as there should be like 60 links. But the ISY did not seem to be aware of them even though this KPL was a member of lots of scenes. I had to remove and reinstall the device and rebuild all the scenes in the end. I do not know when the ISY lost its correct version of what the link table should look like, but I do know I had restored the previous KPL in that location several times in the past with total success. Could have happened in an earlier 3.X release.

Well, I have worked on this for a few days now. I still have not got it 100%. I have not yet tried a restore. I fear it will wipe out all my IR codes. Now my IR-TX has the updates pending flag and nothing I do will remove it. If I select "write updates to device" the isy does nothing. No traffic in the event viewer, no progress bar, no system busy flag, no led activity. It is strange. I can add nodes from the IR-TX to scenes and the isy will show the writing flag and the scene will work but as soon as it is done writing the scene info to the device it goes back to showing the pending updates flag. I have a couple of nodes on this device that are not xmitting the correct commands. I will wait another couple of days for a reply to this thread, but then I guess I am just going to go for the restore. Maybe I will try the restore without a factory reset to the device first hoping to preserve the programed IR codes. I am reasonably certain a factory reset will kill the learned IR codes and am very hesitant to incur that amount of work.

I have a 2411T that I started having some trouble with after trying to add another IR code. It work fine for the past 8 months but now I am having issues. Can the ISY restore this device? If I factory reset it does the ISY somehow know the IR codes it used to contain? Since I taught the IR codes directly to the IR TX with my other remotes will I loose this info if I factory reset the device? If the answer is yes, I can restore this device I have one more question: Since I taught the IR code directly to the 2411T how does the ISY know what the IR code for a given node is? I assumed this info is only contained in the 2411T device itself.

Oberkc, I understand. My issue in that regard has always been that I need enough wire to pull out of the box, put wire nut on, and then begin stuffing. In my 4 gang boxes with tons of neutral connections I was able to cut most of the neutral wire off because I do not need to get the wire out of the box to make a good connection. I can work inside the box and I only need enough wire to make it to the connector. But yes, they are bigger than wire nuts.

This post has inspired me to write a new post: viewtopic.php?p=53635#p53635

We all know the frustration. A two or three gang box with a nightmare neutral bundle, especially if you are putting 2-3 Insteon switches in there. I have tried lots and lots of connectors. Wire nuts are out right off. I very much liked the idea of the multi-conductor push wire terminal blocks available at the big box hardware stores, but I had several issues with these; mainly that connections to stranded cable are permanent and they also have limited gauge ranges within a single terminal block. The permanent thing is a killer here. I am sure I am the only person who ever has had to replace an Insteon switch, but when I do I do not want to have to cut the push-wire terminal block off and get a new one. That is totally unacceptable as I would have to cut the neutrals off the Insteon switches that are staying in the box, and restrip them even shorter. So went on a quest for the perfect solution. And I found it! Wago 222 series connectors. 222-412 two conductor 222-413 three conductor 222-415 five conductor The Compact Connectors with CAGE CLAMP® COMPACT fitting can connect up to 5 stripped fine-stranded conductors with cross sections from 28 to 12 AWG solid and stranded conductors. From an install perspective they are great! You get to work with one conductor at a time. No more wishing you had 5 hands. They make a completely positive connection They are immune from creep They are completely removable. When the time comes to replace a switch they really shine. Simple lift the lever locking the conductor for the switch you are removing and pull the wire out. Insert new switch wire and lower lever. No messing with that giant bundle of neutrals ever again. All the rest of the neutrals stay nicely connected throughout the entire process. I bought a couple of 2 conductor versions to play with, assuming that the 5 conductor would be where I would really love them but I was very pleased with one major benefit to this connector. I was holding a ceiling light fixture up trying to connect it to the power line and could not figure out how to do it with only two hands. I needed one hand to hold up the lamp. Wire nuts take two hands to install. Then I remembered I had a couple of the two conductor Wago products in a drawer from the test purchase. I got them out, installed them on the power line, clamped them down and opened the other side of the connector. Now it was super easy to put the light up. Hold the light up with one hand. Guided the lamp's conductor into the open terminal with the other hand. Easy because with the lever open there is no insertion resistance. Then just snap the lever down! Immediately after putting that light up I ordered a complete assortment of Wago 222 series connectors. I will not be without them again! There are some cons to this connector: They are expensive, especially compared to wire nuts. You are not likely to use them for all applications, but when they are the answer, nothing else can compare. They are not readily available. You are likely to have to order them online. http://www.wago.us/products/2631.htm

I also have dozens of these programs running. Have for years. I have so little problems with them I have never given it a second thought. I have no recall of any failures.

Confirmed using the UI from the link provided.

When adjusting a device level in a scene, I am unable to get the value to take if I want it to be 0% (off). I have found if I adjust the slider to some arbitrary level other than 0% and then adjust the setting it works. It appears that I have to get the ISY to write a level other than 0% first. Then I can set any level I like including 0%

3 more months. No ghosting on with just the switch in a scene as a controller with no responders. (Other than the PLM I which I assume is considered a responder, even though we do not see it) This brings me to another question. Even without this controller in a scene there is still a link to the PLM right? I am going to now remove the scene from the ISY. So I am going back to the condition that existed when this problem first manifested itself. How is having this device as a controller of a scene with no other devices any different than not having the controller in a scene? In both cases the device has a link to the PLM that does not show up in the GUI, right? When I first add a new device to the ISY a link is setup. If I do nothing else with this device, isn't that the same thing as adding the device as a controller of a scene with nothing else in it? In both cases the device has "scene" links to the PLM that the ISY does not show. Am I understanding this correctly?

since it was the central theme of your first response post?

I am doing highly reliable multi-stage 3-Heat 2-Cool zoning with my ISY. I do not think I am going to be able to help much as I ponied up the $$. Venstar Stats with adapters, Honeywell HZ 432 zone controller (the best there is), and a few I/O links to run a special de-humidify mode and also to disable aux heat based on ISY condition monitoring. I carefully considered other control options, but ultimately decided that going all the way was the best solution. I have seen HZ series of zone control boards going for as little as $55 new on eBay. I would not try to skip this part. A dedicated purpose built zone controller is essential for equipment safety. This includes monitoring of discharge air temperature with de-staging control.

Just another suggestion: I always use fixed waits in conjunction with random waits to ensure enough "on" time as random 30 minutes could be 1 minute. If From Sunset To 1:30:00AM (next day) And Folder 'Security' is True Then Repeat Every 0 seconds Wait 20 minutes Wait 20 minutes (Random) Set 'Livingroom / Livingroom Lamp' On Wait 20 minutes Wait 20 minutes (Random) Set 'Livingroom / Livingroom Lamp' Off Else Wait 30 minutes (Random) Set 'Livingroom / Livingroom Lamp' Off Also, since I do not have my motion detectors directly linked to anything but the ISY I can also do conditional control of lights based on motion plus other event. So when I am in away mode, the security folder will be true. Now if my motion detector outside by the bedroom triggers, and it is night the flood lights near that corner of the house will turn on. This sequence of events will cause this program to run, making it look like I am moving around in the house near that area. If Status 'Front Yard / Floods - Bedroom' is On Then Wait 5 seconds Wait 5 seconds (Random) Set 'Bathroom / Bathroom Vanity' On Wait 10 seconds Wait 15 seconds (Random) Set 'Livingroom / Livingroom Lamp' On Wait 10 seconds Wait 20 seconds (Random) Set Scene 'Garage Flos' On Else Wait 10 seconds Wait 30 seconds (Random) Set Scene 'Garage Flos' Off Wait 10 seconds Wait 30 seconds (Random) Set 'Bathroom / Bathroom Vanity' Off Wait 10 seconds Wait 30 seconds (Random) Set 'Livingroom / Livingroom Lamp' Off

Thanks for yet another clarification. Good to understand the subtleties of the situation.

I get it. The ISY is not treating the relay of an I/O Linc like it is treating the relay inside of an ApplianceLinc. Thanks for the explanation.

I understand. Then allow me to amend my concern to the UI defaulting to setting the level of the relay to 0% when adding to scenes. If we are going to do something that messes up statuses it would be nice if it were something in which we had to actively participate. I know I assumed that adding the relay to the scene would have the relay turn on when the scene were turned on, and off when the scene was turned off. It was indeed an easy fix, but I think the default is counter-intuitive. I was shocked when my system woke me up in the early am due to an alarm because the HVAC system was running when it should not have been. I had not paid attention to the on level the relay defaulted to when adding to the scene. I assumed it would add at 100% like other devices. Edit: Wait. Lee, I added a lamp to a scene. I adjusted its scene level to 0%. I turned the lamp on. Status shows 100%. I turn the scene on, status changes to off as the lamp turns off. Why would not the same logic work and make sense for a relay?

When I add an I/O Linc Relay to a scene, it adds it at 0% reversing the logic. I think it should be added at 100% like other devices but that is not my core concern. The main problem is that now the ISY status of the device is always wrong until a query. I do not have trigger reverse selected. I add the relay node to a scene. It is in at 0% by default. If I turn the scene on, the ISY will report the status of the device as on, when in fact it is off. If I turn the scene off the relay will turn on, but the ISY will report the device as off. In either case when I manually query or the nightly query takes place, the status of the device will change to its actual condition, running any programs that look to this device for conditions. I do not have a concern with the flipping of the conditions, just with the ISY being incorrect about the status of the device.

viewtopic.php?t=3193

I have 3 t-stats with 1st gen dongles. All three show 'Fan State' as "ON" when all three are in fact "Auto"

I have a Mac running off an airport extreme. The only time I have any issue with the admin console is if the computer is allowed to sleep. Then the subscription expires and the admin console no longer works. I have to close it and re-open and re-sign it. As for you other concerns. UD agrees that they need more work on their documentation. Unfortunately for novices they seem to spend almost all their resources on advancement of the platform. This makes the documentation problem even worse as the information is constantly changing. You are into very advanced automation. It is going to take some patience. I had similar feelings when first working with the ISY. After understanding why things are the way they are and what capabilities this allows for I love this device. I am sorry you are frustrated. I am sorry that you have to post here to understand even the simplest concepts. I agree that a 10 page intro to ISY programming would be good. I like the video idea as well. But until we get something like this do not hesitate to post even the simplest questions here when you cannot find the answer on the wiki. Even the most skillful expert programmers will answer rapidly. This is a tight community interested in helping each other and not about flaming.

Thanks for the tough editing work. Through this post I finally understand State Machine programming. Now I will read the post that modifies it using variables with an actual understanding of the basic concept. One edit for the original post: I think this should be KPL-D not KPL-A based on the text in the rest of the post.