larryllix

It is all about having lights on bright and for extended retriggerable times during the day light hours, and very dim and for very short retriggerable times during the night time hours. This doesn't seem to be possible using the MS II with a direct Insteon Scene, whereas using the old MS it was, using a combination of Insteon scene and ISY programs. For occupancy I mostly use MSes that set a programmable timer. Each room sets the timer at different times. In the TV watching room I use 180 minutes due to little motion at times, while the typically exit room, I use only 20 minutes, assuming the person may exit. Is the house security is turn on the timer is set to 1 minute and times out quickly. From 11:00 PM to 8 AM the timer is stopped from counting down. BTW: To use the '@' notification system you must choose the name from the dropdown menu or it just becomes normal text. @greazer vs. @greazer

Always, always, always, factory reset every device before linking to ISY 994. Build your Scenes between Insteon devices in the ISY admin console. ISY is a fabulous Insteon scene manager and will make it easy to edit or create them. Then programs can turn scenes on and off inside ISY also. Insteon devices that are not factory reset can give you a lot of grief down the road when they magically do things they shouldn't and cannot explain. Welcome to the world of ISY! It will take some time to get the triggered events concept down but you will not regret it later. Make sure you upgrade to ISY V5.++ if you do not have it installed. Upgrading from v4 to v5 can cause some stress at times, with existing programs and scenes.

ewwww. I hope there are plans for that one. The owing Battery Writes cause a lot of delay in my ISY.

@Chris Jahn @Michel Kohanim V5.1.0 I believe the Battery Write option does not carry it's settings through an ISY power cycle. I have not tested this to prove I didn't just slip with my mouse clicks but just noticed immediate Battery Writes enabled again after a power blink yesterday.

@greazer I think I have found the problem! MY laundry room is the only place I have left using a MS II. The other two are moved to places where they do not directly control lights and are only used for occupancy logic in ISY, so this problem has not applied to those units. In my laundry room program I was trying to treat the algorithm like the old MSes and use a retriggerable Wait X minutes in ISY software. I had a dual time out based on time of day so some times were worse. Now suppose the MS II is retriggering with motion in the room but the software timer, not getting any retrigger signals, timed out and turns off the lights. The MS II internal timer has been retriggered and will never send another On until it times off, and is set to send On in a new cycle. This would appear with the effect I was describing. No lights on would ever occur until the MS II see no motion for it's timer duration, and it can send another On. Looks like my synopsis of this was dead wrong and it always seemed to prove out as true in situ. I have now changed my ISY timer to an all-else-fails timer at 15 minutes, longer than should ever be needed in the laundry room, and always (hopefully) exceeding the internal MS II timer. CONCLUSION: Never use an ISY program timer to beat the MS II's internal timer, when using a direct Scene link between the MS II and a light, to turn off the light. I will be testing this new idea (for me) to prove whether this was the case. I have lowered the MS II timer down to 90 seconds, but I may also need to physically lower the MS II to catch motion underneath it more dependably. @greazerThank you for your efforts and your persistence! This was a hard lesson for me.

I think you understood correctly by your comments. Perhaps there were different releases and I got a different one than you. If I set my timeout short the lights turn off quickly with lack of movement (of course) If I set my timeout long (3-5 minutes) and the lights time off, I have to not move for those 3-5 minutes before the lights can be triggered on again. These are my options as set for this room. If you can find something obvious I would appreciate any hints to make these more useful.

That all depends on whether the ELK sends every motion sensed On signal to ISY or just the first change of state. You would need a much longer timer to avoid the lights going off randomly while they play in the room, unless your MS will detect the floor play in every corner of the room.

Nice catch! The force is strong with this one! Modified post to match. I was originally mentally designing to have all four LEDs in each scene and use it that way. Need an ISY "select" construct here. I don't like all scenes being hit on every minute simultaneously though. KPLs are all in one device address. hmmmm....maybe disable 3/4 and call each in a daisychain of progressive value tests? Maybe wait and see if the OP comes back with something.

This was a duplicate post from @poetaaron Report post Posted 3 minutes ago (edited) Here is how I would do it. I would create 8 scenes, each containing only one KPL LED = On Then I would create four programs for each side like this If $sLED1.timer >= 90 Then set ledG.scene On Else set ledG.scene Off If $sLED1.timer >= 60 Then set ledE.scene On Else set ledE.scene Off If $sLED1.timer >= 30 Then set ledC.scene On Else set ledC.scene Off If $sLED1.timer > 0 Then set ledA.scene On Else set ledA.scene Off Set up a program to decrement the timer state variable $sLED1.timer by 1 minute each repeat as in other variable based timer programs. Turn off the LED bulb when 0 is reached. Set up a program to advance the state variable timer $sLED1.timer by 15 minutes each timer button A is pushed> If KPL.A is switched On AND $sLED1.timer <= 90 Then $sLED1.timer += 30 Else $sLED1.timer = 0 Duplicate the whole thing for the other side buttons. When you press the top left button your LED1 timer variable should advance by 30 minutes each press. Your KPL LEDs should advance in a column by one more for each press, and also decrease for every 30 minutes that the state variable timer $sLED1.timer counts down, indicating the time left on the bulbs. One too many presses and the timer should reset back to 0 and LED1 bulb should turn off, and the sequence start over again. Let me know how you make out. This is untested and bugs may be found that should be easily fixed.

@poetaaron created own thread with duplicate post. Response deleted

Yes, and yes. The Off time is what nullifies most of my appkications. As long as motion for the timer setting it will never reset and send a new On. I have one in my laundry room on USB power and it makes no difference. If the light goes out until you stand still for X minutes delay the lights will never come back on. I was using them in high usage places due to the USB power but now have removed them and only use for security alerts where duration are not a factor. I wish Insteon would correct this bad design but it seems it was done to support their dumber system and thwart ISY users. The next product logic change will confirm or deny this hypothesis IMHO. Hopefully UDI will discover some new logically corrections to stop these things from hanging the Insteon comm channel in the near future. I don't query them (MS II) anymore. It can cause a disaster in ISY / Insteon systems and the alternate field information is random garbage at times.

@greazer Nice! You should mention your information is about the MS II. Most of it does not apply to the original Insteon MS. The off time duration is not mentioned. I found that aspect makes the MS II mostly useless for lighting, but great, and seemingly more reliable, for logic applications in ISY.

@TAllenYou didn't include any text or person you were posting to in order to alert them. Type '@' and then their name, select the box below like I did yours at the beginning of this paragraph.

Nice! I do use folder conditions for a few purposes (night security zone enable, security MS zones enable, permanently disabling monitoring programs) but they have a few drawbacks. - they are hard to debug, programs underneath cannot be manually tested while the folder is false - they can stop a program midstream and leave devices turned on or off - they are obscure/hard to see and not something I would look for when debugging algorithms. Once you have a bank of basic device/scene/level handlers in a folder the triggering programs get much simpler without the rest of the code. Some of mine turn on Insteon scenes, along with MagicLight controls via NRs through custom software, sometimes three different colours or more, all from one master scene number inserted into the control variable. Divorcing the two sides of the process across a variable works very well to simplify the thinking. Another nice thing about the isolation via a variable is you can pound the variable as many times as you like but unless the value changes none of the devices get pounded with useless Ons or Offs.

1) You don't. Scenes do not have a status and cannot be determined with any accuracy. If you want to know what the last scene was use a variable as I suggested in a previous post. 2.) I don't know what buttons you are referring to. If they are KPL buttons or other Insteon buttons, they do not have a useful status. Their status is always Off but they generate events that can trigger ISY programs. You variable can remember their last operation. 3.) I am not sure if you can copy a scene but you can create a scene very easily inside the admin console. It's most;y a drag and drop process. I only use a few Insteon scenes but I use dozens of different room lighting scenes, all controlled by one state variable. If you want to remember which lighting scene was on for some temporary usage, save the state variable into another variable and when you are done save that variable back into the state variable. As describe previously, all lighting is controlled by that one state variable. The first thing that usually happens with newbies to ISY is "OMG! it takes so many programs!". That is the nature of the beast. Each program is one basic logic statement unlike linear program languages. Most developed systems use hundreds of programs and hundreds of variables. It is not costly for the system. Best of luck. Keep experimenting.

Not sure I can completely understand the logic there but...you seem to be very logically equipped so..... For my deck lights I have 13 WiFi bulbs controlled by my own NRbridge software, driven by ISY NR commands. I have them divided into three groupings, for scenes that I can control from ISY similar to Insteon Scenes, to avoid the popcorn effects, display three different colours, and animate them in a rotational looking effect when desired. I use a single State Variable to control the scenes, exactly the same way as my Gathering room example above. In another folder, I have a bank of programs that all install a scene source variable with the various colour scenes for the deck ceiling potlights, based on the date. Each day at a neutral time I set the controlling source variable to $cDIM so that my deck night lights program uses a copy of $cDIM to illuminate my deck and porch. On festive occasion dates, at a time just a few minutes later than the usual dim white setting, I override the deck lights source variable to festive themes. eg. Canada Day, Christmas, Easter, Halloween, Independence Day, etc... When the main program (sunset + XXX minutes) until 11:00 PM day of week dependent, I copy the scene source variable into the deck light scene control variable causing whatever colours I want to show up around my home.

Using Integer variables as constants. $sGathRm.lighting = $cBRIGHT $sGathRm.lighting = $cOFF $sGathRm.lighting = $cRED I also use an old de facto standard from other languages, using all caps to denote constants. Don't forget to set all" init to" variables to the same value so they are not forgotten in power outages. I also define constants for room numbers so when I record motion, leak detector batteries, or other events I have a method of marking the room the even happened in. Now we just need ISY to support a string substitution function in notification outputs so a real piece of text can sub back in for the names/strings we can use inside programs.

I use a State variable to control lighting inside my Gathering Room. I also use about 15 Integer variables to define constants to make it more user friendly. eg. $cPARTY, $cDIM, $cBRIGHT. $cOFF etc.These contain many coloured scene themes as well. my lighting is a mix of RGBW strips, RGBW bulbs, Insteon, etc.. Each value/constant contains a permanent value of say 11,12,13 etc.. anything will do. I have defined a bank of scene handlers/programs based on that state variable and hidden them inside a folder. eg. If $sGathRm.lighting = $cBRIGHT Then set Insteon scene xxx on set WiFi bulbs to 100% set LEDenet strips to white, 100% Else ----- Once this is done you can have many programs, conditions and Alexa vocals controlling that single state variable that controls all the lighting in that room. Much easier. Also, if you want to "borrow" a light for something...eg flash a bulb because a garage door is left open. You just save the value of the state variable, and then restore it back to the original value, after "borrowing" it, and all is back to where you left off again. Confused yet? Just ask!!

Maybe somebody will write a better NS to control spouses? I don't think the protocol quite matches. When I Dim the lights, she wants to go "Out" and keeps disconnecting. Maybe the handshake isn't working?

Alexa thinks every item in my house is a light or a switch. It only knows what I tell it, via ISY Portal. "Alexa...turn on louder" turns the A/V volume higher. I don't connect things directly to Alexa, only from ISY via the Portal. "Alexa...turn on the fan high" or "Alexa....turn on the high fan" tuns on the fan in that room.

Right now amazon has the Echo Show 8" on sale for cheaper than the full Echo. I recommend that one if you are only going to get one unit. However I don't recommend the Echo Show 5". It's screen is too small and useless unless you stand right in front of it. My son has one and it isn;t worth as much as a simple Dot. The Echo Show 8" out hears every one of my Echo Dots, even when standing right in front of them and the Show 8" is at the other end of the house. Shopping lists onscreen and results of movie lookups in print in front of you are worth a lot. My Echo Show 8" sits on top of the tower A/V speakers and still hears better than all other Dots with the TV blaring through those speakers.

I was hoping you might comment on the non-native English thing as the OP is concerned about it. I know you have mentioned it before. Has that resolved itself at all?

You can also right click on any program and use the find and replace menu to swap the old name for the new device's name in all programs. Check your scenes after. They would need to be swapped manually.

I have about 11 Echo Dots and 1 Echo (full size) in my home. I also have about 6 Google Home Minis and one full size GH. If you want them for music playing, lean towards GH or Echo full size. If you want them for mainly HA then lean toward Echo Dots, for the price...about 4 for 1? With ISY994 and ISY Portal the Echo Dot can replace dozens of Insteon remotes and switches plus be available for stats on Movie Stars, movies, conversions during cooking, setting event into your mobile phone calendars, and keeping shopping lists etc.. Shopping lists work like this... ..."Alexa! Add carrots" " OK... I have added carrots to your shopping list." This list is available on your cell phone and synchronises between both our phones as the items are checked off. We never forget a paper list or forget to write the item down any more. This is totally independent of ISY994. I started making techniques to change colours and colour schemes of my lights using dozens of Insteon buttons and combinations of selection methods. Once I got an Alexa Dot they all went into the junk bin. That sounds like this. ..."Alexa! turn on Independence Day deck lights" "OK" This caused every third deck light around the home to turn red, next third to white, last third to turn blue. I have dozen of different colouring and white light scenes styles. Get a few amazon Dots and more when they are on sale. I also have an 8" Echo Show that displays webcams and those lists of shopping items and appointments when asked. When a garage door is opened, my Dots announce which door and when they are both closed as well as when the dryer is finished and when any battery devices signals a low battery by speaking the announcement on many devices. For non-native English speakers @asbril may be able to shed some light on both systems.

Strange that is the same time (8:00 AM) my MIA daily report of HVAC setback status was being sent.