oberkc

I agree that this program is written such that it should not trigger anything during the day. Is it possible that you have another program that is calling the "then" statement of this program? I believe it is also possible that a light triggered less than 9m30s before sunrise would stay on until after the next sunset. Is it possible this is what you are experiencing?

While I am not sure I would use your motion conditions as stated, I doubt this has anything to do with coming on during the day. The only thing that I can think is that your clock is, somehow, in the wrong time zone or set incorrectly. You don't have any scenes in which the motion sensor and lights are part of, do you?

I think your are correct, xlurkr. It appears, based on the program, that the switch also controls the load. If so, turning the switch off (even fast off) will turn the load off, programs or scenes notwithstanding. Since you control the load via the switch, there aren't many ways to do this. You could get an inlinelinc and mount it in the fixture box, then program this much like you have. Short of any new devices, you could add a line in your program: If Control 'Shop Fan' is switched Fast Off Then Set 'Shop fan" on Wait 10 seconds Set 'Shop Fan' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') But this would, no doubt, result in the light going off for a second-or-so.

Yes. In this case your "on" levels for that scene would be 100%, 50%, and 0%.

What kind of IR receiver do you have? ISY-99IR? Insteon IRLinc? Other?

Anyone who uses the word "vestige" can handle all the complexity I am capable of providing.

I made suggestions, based on your programs. First, I see no reason to put it in a folder if you have no folder conditions. Take the programs out of the folder. The rest, I will modify your programs: A1. BackYard Motion Sensed - this program, when enabled, will sense motion, and call for the timer program. If From Sunset To Sunrise (next day) And ( Control 'MS Garage' is switched On or Control 'MS House' is switched On ) And Status 'Back Porch Light' is not On And Status 'Garage Light' is not On Then Run Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' (Then Path) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes - this program is called by the A1 motion sense program and turns the lights on, waits three minutes, then turns them off If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' On Wait 3 minutes Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A3. BackYard Lights Switched On - this program watches for EITHER of the two light switches to be turned on. If so, it will stop any active timer program and disable the sense program If Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched On or Control 'Garage Light' is switched On Then Stop program 'BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' disable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A4. BackYard Lights Switched Off - this program watches for either of the two lights to be turned off, at which point it will re-enable the a1 motion sense program If Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched Off or Control 'Garage Light' is switched Off Then enable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A5. BackYard Lights Daily Reset - turns lights off at 30 minutes past dawn. I left the enable program in, just in case it has been disabled by manual action If Time is Sunrise + 30 minutes Then Set 'Back Porch Light' Off Set 'Garage Light' Off Enable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A6 - motion disable - this program watches for the double-tap and disables motion in response. If Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched fast Off or Control 'Garage Light' is switched fast Off Then disable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') I am sure that there are many ways to code this. I would also be surprised if there was not at least one error in there. Feel free to give it a try and identify where it does not meet your stated requirements.

I made suggestions, based on your programs. First, I see no reason to put it in a folder if you have no folder conditions. Take the programs out of the folder. The rest, I will modify your programs: A1. BackYard Motion Sensed - this program, when enabled, will sense motion, and call for the timer program. If From Sunset To Sunrise (next day) And ( Control 'MS Garage' is switched On or Control 'MS House' is switched On ) And Status 'Back Porch Light' is not On And Status 'Garage Light' is not On Then Run Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' (Then Path) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes - this program is called by the A1 motion sense program and turns the lights on, waits three minutes, then turns them off If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' On Wait 3 minutes Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A3. BackYard Lights Switched On - this program watches for EITHER of the two light switches to be turned on. If so, it will stop any active timer program and disable the sense program If Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched On or Control 'Garage Light' is switched On Then Stop program 'BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' disable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A4. BackYard Lights Switched Off - this program watches for either of the two lights to be turned off, at which point it will re-enable the a1 motion sense program If Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched Off or Control 'Garage Light' is switched Off Then enable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A5. BackYard Lights Daily Reset - turns lights off at 30 minutes past dawn. I left the enable program in, just in case it has been disabled by manual action If Time is Sunrise + 30 minutes Then Set 'Back Porch Light' Off Set 'Garage Light' Off Enable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A6 - motion disable - this program watches for the double-tap and disables motion in response. If Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched fast Off or Control 'Garage Light' is switched fast Off Then disable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') I am sure that there are many ways to code this. I would also be surprised if there was not at least one error in there. Feel free to give it a try and identify where it does not meet your stated requirements.

True or false is simply the result of the last evaluation. If a program was last evaluated three days ago, and it evaluated true (and ran the "then" path), then that program is currently true, and will remain so until it is evaluated again. This all sounds correct to me. One subtlety, programs can be called externally, by other programs, even if disabled. So....while the programs in your folder will not run by themselves if the folder condition is false, they can still be called by other program statements, such as run (if), run (then), or run (else).

That is the delay associated with programs. It is good that you got the program figured out, but I would definitely try the scene approach if the delay bothers you.

It should be satisfying. It demonstrates your ability to think and to reason. Such skills put you near the top of your class.

I was, like fitzparti8, thinking scenes, but was not smart enough to come up with the correct combination. I kept thinking "a device can be controller of only one scene, but a responder in many". Looking at his response, I would amend as follows, for clarity: While you could do this with programs, I prefer scenes when possible. The are not reliant on the ISY, and they are quicker. This is consistent with my earlier explanation, I believe. Your program would never execute the "else" path, because it only triggers upon receipt of an "on" command, and always evaluates as true. Yes...it sounds like you have a good grasp of how this works. That is why I was looking for a better explanation than "This didn't work and neither did using the status".

I may be overlooking it, but I see five programs, labeled programs 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. I see no program labeled "A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes" or 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed'. I see no device in your program called "back door light" What are the folder conditions?

I think, indeed, that you correctly answered your own question.

I think, actually, you are pretty close with your attempt. Please confirm which program is "A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes" and which is 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed'. Please, also, confirm that none of your devices are in any scenes.

No. How did this not work? Did it turn on, but not off (this is what I expect from the program shown). I am a little surprised that the status did not work, at least a little bit. A couple of thoughts from the program displayed.... It will evaluate any time that "Kitchen All" is switched on, and only then. It will always evaluate true, and never evaluate false, therefore, the "else" path will never execute. If the "kitchen front" did not turn on, open the event viewer (under tools), manually turn on "kitchen all" and see if the event viewer shows receipt of this command. If the "kitchen front" turned on, but did not turn off, add a second program: If Control 'Kitchen All' is switched Off Then Set 'Kitchen Front' Off Else

I would start off by defining, in english, what it is you want a program(s) to do, such as: a. motion from either of two sensors, A and B, triggers both lights, X, and Y, to come on for three minutes, then turn off. b. any new motion sensed restarts three-minute clock c. motion-triggered lights are active only between sunset and sunrise d. if either of the two lights are manually activated, they will remain on, indefinitely, until manually shut off. e. both lights will turn off automatically at 30 minutes past dawn, each day, regardless of how activated. f. double tap (fast off) will disable motion-triggered lights. Please modify and augment, as necessary. I consider it bad practice to program before having a complete understanding of requirements. No, unless you have included the MS in a scene.

disabled simply means that the program will not evaluate or execute on its own.

Hopefully, you can get the update and recognize your devices. Normally, when you add a device to a scene, it will give you the option to add as controller, or responder.

I see a problem with your first program, at least. For it to ever be true, ALL conditions must by simultaneously true (because of the AND statements). I doubt this will ever happen. I suggest the following changes to your first program, at least: If From Sunset To Sunrise (next day) And ( Control 'MS Garage' is switched On or Control 'MS House' is switched On ) And Status 'Back Porch Light' is not On And Status 'Garage Light' is not On And Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' is False Then Run Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' (Then Path) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Regarding program 4, it appears to me this one will rarely evaluate as true, since both controls must occur simultaneously (very unlikely). Furthermore, if it did evaluate as true, it would disable your motion sensor program. What is the purpose of this? Given your description (double tap disables the motion sensor), perhaps you would be better with: If Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched fast Off <<<"fast off" is double tap or Control 'Garage Light' is switched fast Off <<< "or" allow either condition down "then" path Then Stop program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Disable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Run Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' (Else Path) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') I also wonder what devices are in your scene 'BackYard Lighting'

I would expect the answer to this to be no, unless your program is now looking for something new from the motion sensor that is disabled by jumper settings. Otherwise, program changes require no change to individual insteon device settings, including those of a motion sensor.

In case you did not know, the ISY supports X-10 also. There is little reason to abandon your X-10 equipment if it is otherwise working. My perception is that many folks around here still use X-10 to some degree.

I would like to confirm LeeG's response. Unfortunately, yours is the type of wiring that falls a bit short for insteon retrofit. In general, you need hot, neutral, and ground at each switch location. In addition, you need a way to supply the fixture with switched power. I also believe you will need an extra conductor between fixture and switch. Otherwise, you could use an inlinelinc.

This is as it should be. Turning a switch on via ISY does not affect any scene controlled by that switch. If you want the whole scene to come on, you must so specify. I have read through your various scenarios and am not convinced that anything is misbehaving from a communication standpoint (though it still may be). I think it a real possibility that there are simply a lot of variations on the status as a trigger. I still think you should try temporarily disabling the query program, and changing your timer program to: If Control “Upstrs Bathroom Remote Swlinc†is turned On Or control “Upstrs Bthroom Sink Lites†is turned On Then Wait 30 minutes and 10 seconds Set Scene “Upstrs Sink Lites†Off Else - No Actions This program is triggered only upon reciept of "on" commands, and triggered upon receipt of every "on" command, regardless of prior device status or prior scene status, or prior program status. See if this works. If so, get rid of the query program. You won't need it.

Regarding part 2, scenario 1... I continue to be a little surprised that the timer program kicks in after the manual query. The ISY status for the light was confirmed on prior to the manual query. Running the query returns an "on" statement (did you confirm the ISY light status AFTER the query?). This does NOT constitute a CHANGE in status, therefore, I would not expect any evaluation of the timer program to occur. Perhaps I don't understand the relationship between what you call "the light", the device "upstrs bathrrom remote swlinc", the device "Upstrs Bthroom sink lites", and the scene "Upstrs Sink Lites". I have been assuming that the two devices are part of the scene, and that "the light" is one of the two devices. I must conclude that I don't understand program triggers as much as I had thought. BTW, I expect the timer program status, while interesting, to be irrelevant to your problems here. The scenerio 2 is consistent with my prediction of how this program should behave. It does not surprise me that the timer program does not kick in after running the query program, since there appears to be no change in status. The only thing that I can think of (regarding your programs) is that one of your two devices ("upstrs bathrrom remote swlinc", and "Upstrs Bthroom sink lites") is, somehow, changing status throught scenerio 1. I am curious which of these two devices actually controls "the light" and as to the relationship between this one and the other. fitzpatri8 had a good suggestion regarding GFCI outlets. I believe I have read that these can interfere with powerline signals. Are your two insteon devices downstream of a GFCI outlet (many baths are wired this way)? If you are unsure, you can check by pushing the test button on the GFCI. If you insteon devices loose power, then they are downstream and limited by the outlet's ability to pass insteon signals. I also don't know the exact devices in question here, but have you looked to see if there are dual-band replacements for these two? If so, I wonder aloud if this may alleviate much of your communication problems.