oberkc

This sounds like a conflicting requirement to me. Do you want them on indefinitely or do you want them to turn off 10 minutes after sensing motion?

I will have to take your word on that, since I dont know the current conditions. But I agree with you...I don't believe placement of this condition should make any difference to the total condition status results. It sounds as if your understanding and mine are the same. I wonder, however, if the problem is not the evaluation results, but whether or not the program condition is evaluated. Have you always forced an evaluation, by manually choosing "run if"? Is it possible that the condition would evaluate as you and I both expect, but that there is, simply, nothing triggering an evaluation? Another thing that I notice is that your "then" or "else" statement change one or more of your input conditions. Is it possible that running the program causes a change in the conditions which change the status? As an experiment to test this hypothosis, you could temporarily remove the "then" and "else" statements and see if this changes anything.

I am not following this statement. It appears that there are also differences regarding the placement and inclusion of "$sAlarmSys_Z26_MasterBed_Door" (first program does not include). I think you have more things going on here than just the placement of "$sAlarmSys_Z31_LaudryRm_Door". Which was the newly added sensor? I am curious as to what combinations of device true/false that are yielding program results different than what you are expecting? I tend to agree, however, that the second an third programs should behave equally.

I was not sure that restoration of power after a loss would trigger a program evaluation and program execution. If so, what would happen to the OP sample program if power failure happened at, as an example, 0400, well after it runs the first time. Would it run again? I am not sure that I experience enough power failures to be able to say with any degree of certainty how my programs react, but I do not recall any cases where they ever got off schedule. Perhaps I have gotten lucky and not had power loss during any critical program times. Perhaps a definitive answer will come from those with direct knowledge.

So...you think the original program would be more likely run at 0100 after a 59 minute power interruption? I would not expect this to happen, but you may be correct. I thought that if you chose the system option to get programs caught up after power failure, it would run this program regardless of the duration of the power failure. I had forgotten (or failed to notice) the missed schedule grace period.

I don't believe one can simply "strike" lines in the ISY code. The first two lines in your "if" statement are part of a single time condition that can, however, be changed to a different time condition. Rather than using the "from/to" time condition, simply use the "time is" condition. I, too, believe this would be a better solution: If Time is 12:01:00AM And Status 'Master BR KP / Irr Hold.MBK' is not On And Module 'Climate' Irrigation Requirement >= 0.50 then .....

I do two things when I loose internet connectivity. First, from the admin panel, I believe one can find the address under help>>about. Failing this, I disable internet access, then re enable internet access. It will give me the address for internet access.

I looked at the wiki: http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Linking_an_I/O_Linc and you are correct. It only has the option to set momentary "A", based upon the condition the IOLinc was in when it was "linked". Unfortunately, I believe dsegneri has tried linking while on AND off, without any visible change in behavior. This is contrary to what I would expect from the wiki. Perhaps I am not understanding the issue here... I understand that the IOLinc relay cannot be a controller in a scene, only the sensor. This suggests that the "button" must be the controller in this scene. This is suggesting that the relay is, somehow, driving the switch (which I think is not possible...only sensors can be controllers). Maybe there IS a sensor in this equation somehow (perhaps in reference to wiring the contacts backwards). If there IS a sensor, and it is the sensor that is the controller of the scene, then I am thinking that the "trigger reverse" option in the IOLinc configuration could be the solution. I also remember something in the wiki garage door kit example about problems during power failure: http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Garage_Door_Kit I believe the proposed example was to wire the sensor differently than shown in the directions. But then, I think this wiki article was based on a version of the ISY software that is pretty old by today's standards, and may not apply. Regardless, perhaps there is something here that can help dsegneri.

If you are programming through the ISY, have you tried changing these settings. If I recall correctly, you can select the device (IOLinc) at the device tree, and along the bottom is an button where you can view and edit the options. This includes the option for response to "on" commands, latching, momentary, etc.... I don't think the status of the IOLinc device, at the time of adding to the ISY, matters at all.

It sounds, then, that you understand things well enough to make a decision about which way you want to go. Good luck.

OK. I will take your word for that. Should I dare suggest that is not the insteon definition of a scene being on and run the risk of being called silly again? If you choose to use the programming logic of the ISY, it could address the logic to turn the keypad on. To do so, however, the keypad button in our example would not be part of the defined scene. However, if you define an insteon scene as including the keypad button, then you are relying on the inherent insteon capability of the devices rather than the logic of a program. I don't know about whether this is silly. I will leave that to your expert judgement. I am just a simple user of an insteon system. Yes, indeed, a scene can be defined three different ways. The ISY-99 creates such scenes. Perhaps the ISY-99 use of the term "scene" is sometimes a combination of pure insteon "scenes". Regardless, in my mind, this makes establishment of relationships between devices a bit easier to accomplish. Where you have three "scenes", the ISY-99 construct has one. It works for me. Apparently, this is not your preference. I actually find the ISY-99 model of a scene works pretty well. Perhaps the trade-off is that the definition of scene "status" becomes a bit more difficult to define. Design, as in life, is about tradeoffs. Apparently, powerhome has made different design choices.

Suppose one has a scene with a controller keypad button and two responder dimmer switches. Suppose the "on" levels for each responder is set at 50%. Suppose, then that each individual dimmer was manually set to 50%. The keypad controller would not be on. Is the scene on? That is all that it means. Suppose one has a scene with three devices, all controllers and responders. Each scene is defined differently, depending on which controller is used to activate it. When is this scene on? This topic has been discussed before, and I don't believe the omission of scene status is due to a failure to consider it. Certainly, it can get complicated pretty quickly.

I suppose the answer to that would also depend on whether there are any controllers of the scene, such as a keypad button. In the end, the answer really doesn't matter. I don't believe the ISY has what you are looking for. Good luck with whatever option you choose.

My understanding with regards to scene status is best shown by rhetorical question. If one has a hypothetical scene with two dimmer devices, each with scene "on" levels defined as 50%, is a scene on or off if both devices are currently operating at 60%? While I am sure there are logical ways to respond to questions such as this, I agree with apostolakisl: the ISY-99 does not monitor scene status. I continue to believe that you will find the ISY-99 to be lacking in this "intelligence" that you seek.

The ISY-99 is based on if/then/else programs, with conditions consisting of device status, program status, time, temperature, etc... joined by "or" or "and" conditions. If you can describe your needs using boolean logic, the ISY-99 can do it. Also, insteon sytems with the ISY-99 can take advantage of insteon scenes, so combinations of scenes and programs are typical. Your example sounds like something where you would use a combination of scenes and programs. However, you state that such a construct is "unmanagable" and "ugly". Given this, I cannot think of anything to offer that you would find otherwise.

Good catch. That is exactly the change that I would suggest, as well. Simple is all I can understand.

On what evidence do you base your conclusion that this never fires. What is the status of this program in the program summary? (if "true", then it fired at some point.) If you manually run the "then" path of this program, are the results as you expect? If you manually run the "else" path of this program (turning the program "false"), does the program status become "true" at midnight? Is it possible that something happens to OUTLIGHTS.S3.BODY between now and midnight that turns it false?

I am sorry, but I must disagree. The program example I offered would turn the fan on when the light came on. So long as the light stayed on, the fan would stay on. The 15 minute timer does not start until the program is evaluated as false (which happens only when light status changes to off), and runs the "else" condition. Perhaps I should have added spaces to make this easier to read: if status 'shower light' is on then set shower fan on else wait 15 minutes set shower fan off

Using the "status" condition, rather than "control", I expect the "if" clause to be triggered at any change in status, whether from off-to-on, or on-to-off (I am assuming your light switch is a relay, rather than dimmer....otherwise, one may have to emply a different type of condition). If the condition is triggered and evaluated as "true", I expect any running "else" clause to cease, and the "then" clause to initiate. If the condition is triggered and evaluated as false, I expect the "else" clause to initiate. It is easy enough to try out. Create the program and observe the program status as you toggle the light from off-to-on, and vice versa.

I have not made a lot of changes to my system in the last few months. All is, generally, working well. Therefore, my programming may have lost a step or two. Would the original requirements not be as simple as: if status 'shower light' is on then set shower fan on else wait 15 minutes set shower fan off

Perhaps I am the only one, but I am a little confused by your terminology. Scenes and programs are different. Scenes are created at the device list and have no "if" or "then" conditions...only controllers and responders. Scenes do not require presence of the ISY to operate correctly. On the other hand, programs have "if", "then", and "else" statements. Having said this, are you having trouble with a program failing to operate as expected, or with scenes not responding to one of the controller devices? It is starting to sound as if you have a program that is giving you trouble. If so, do you mind posting it. I am with apostolakisl here: I am now suspecting a program error.

You are mostly correct. It has been dealt before (a lot). Whether it is simple I will leave for you to decide. You will probably need an insteon program or two to make this work and make a few changes to your scene. My suggestion is to first look over the wiki articles on this subject. I have found them useful. The link below uses an X-10 motion sensor, but the logic is valid regardless. There is also a wiki article on using motion sensors in a bathroom. Much of this is applicable to you, as well. http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Using_X-10_Motion_Sensors If your question is more basic (how do I write a program with the ISY), I expect the wiki to be a good place to start, also. http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:How-To_Guide#Programs'>http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:How-To_Guide#Programs or the user manual; http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:How-To_Guide#Programs

I must admit that the ability to read those events would, in times of trouble, be nice. Still, I have too many hobbies already and, as much as I enjoy my playing with my lighting system, I enjoy it even more when I don't have to play with it.

You are, of course, correct. Thanks for the amplification. My opinion is that the term "scene" is the one that we external users see in the literature and ISY admin panel. The intoduction of a "group" term helps such users not (at best) and adds confusion to some, based on my observation of the forums here. I percieved PBusby as an external user, such as myself.

Thank you for posting your programs. I expect these to do as you have stated that you want. Unless I misunderstand your expectations, I would look somewhere other than the program. Now that we know the names of the devices, please describe what your system is doing that is contrary to your expectations. Please use the device names when you describe this behaviour. Many of LeeGs questions are aimed at the possibility of communication failure or device failure. Answering those will help narrow the solution to your problem. In general, I would compare the status of the actual devices in your program to the status shown in the ISY admin panel (does the ISY say it is off when the actual device is actually on?). See if there are any that don't match.