oberkc

Yes, it does (provide nice interface). Yes, it does (keep track). It takes time and thought for all of us.

I had no idea there was a limit to the number of programs. Regardless, I am quite confident that each program in the folder counts towards whatever limits there may be. While I am sure one can get to 300 programs, I suspect one would have to be extremely extreme (or extremely inefficient) to reach this.

Based on reading of this forum, it seems the response you got from smarthome is a common one. I find it interesting that they claim not to be experts on the ISY, yet are pretty quick to blame it. Given the way you created programs, you are correct. There is no reason to have any of the KPL-A buttons controllers in your second scene. The program takes care of that. However, I suspect you are seeing a slight delay in your device response due to the reliance on programs. I believe you can experience a quicker response by taking better advantage of scenes. I think I would keep your "all lights KPL" scene as is, with the four devices as responder. To your "All Lights" scene, I would add the four KPL-A buttons as controllers. After this, eliminate your second and third programs. Having the KPL-A buttons as controllers in the scene will cause the scene to come on and go off without a program, anytime one of the KPL-A buttons is pressed. It will also keep the KPL buttons synced. Keeping the first program will still toggle the KPL-A buttons to be on anytime one of the other devices is switched on locally. Fortunately, the way I understand insteon to work, this will not cause the entire "all lights" scene to come on. I think you will find this approach to be faster and simpler. I have no definite explanation why adding the fourth KPL did not work (I think it should have), but cannot help but suspect that there are residual links or X-10 addresses in some of your devices. Without knowing more about how it failed, though, this is just speculation.

My suggestion is to start with the wiki. Your desire is a pretty common one. It is also a capability I have incorporated into my own system. Here is the link: It is based on a keypad, which I believe to be the best insteon device to control a garage door. Yes, it involves "scene". One makes the keypad button a controller of the IOlinc. In a second scene, the keypad button a responder to the relay. Check it out and see if it makes any sense.

My suggestion is to start with the wiki. Your desire is a pretty common one. It is also a capability I have incorporated into my own system. Here is the link: It is based on a keypad, which I believe to be the best insteon device to control a garage door. Yes, it involves "scene". One makes the keypad button a controller of the IOlinc. In a second scene, the keypad button a responder to the relay. Check it out and see if it makes any sense.

I can probably answer a few of these questions... When the ISY boots up, it can request status from the devices in your "my lighting" list. I guess this gives you the option to enable this capability. You can also schedule a query. Check your programs. I suspect you have a scheduled query already. I would expect forums to be a place where we can all share our questions and experiences. I would expect the wiki and user manuals, instead, to be the places where explanation of features and use is likely found. From the wiki: "In the new firmware, a program which is set to run at startup will likewise evaluate the If condition to determine which path to take, defaulting to the Then clause in the absence of a condition. " I would expect such a program to run only immediately after a startup, only once (until next reboot) and, in your case, to execute the "then" statement. It sounds as if yours will do as you want. Again, I tend to view the wiki as this document.

When breaking the timer portion into a separate program without conditions, the timer continues to run even if the first program turns false (such as at sunrise). Given my suspicions that your program will not work as you desire, I guess this makes it "better". Could it be done with one program? Maybe. I just find the two-program solution to be simple and elegant. If you want a single program, you might try: ( Control 'Driveway_Motion1-Sensor' is switched On or Control'Driveway_Motion2-Sensor' is switched On ) And From Sunset To Sunrise (next day) Then Set 'Driveway_LightsPath' On Wait 10 minutes Set 'Driveway_LightsPath' Off Else - Set 'Driveway_LightsPath' Off The difference with the two-program and single-program approaches it when the light comes on less than ten-minutes before sunrise. The two-program approach will keep the light on for the full ten-minute countdown. The one-program approach shuts the light off at sunrise, regardless of how long it has been on. BTW, if asked what is the most common programming question on this forum, I would guess it to be related to motion sensors. It is well worth a search and review. There is also a good article in the wiki.

I suspect that you will find that new coding to be faulty, as well. While you don't believe that this is the cause of your problem, I can think of no better theory at this point, so perhaps it is worth an experiment. If you are up for it, try something like: If ( Control 'Driveway_Motion1-Sensor' is switched On or Control'Driveway_Motion2-Sensor' is switched On ) And From Sunset To Sunrise (next day) Then run "new program" (then path) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Create a second program, called "new program" (or whatever you want): if then Set 'Driveway_LightsPath' On Wait 10 minutes Set 'Driveway_LightsPath' Off else See if this solves your problems. Don't forget to get rid of your other program.

Probably. My recollection is that the configurable EMail message came along somewhere 2.8.1x Postscript: list of enhancements for each build: http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?p=6475#6475 Looks like configurable EMail came in 2.8.7

Not in my estimation. You condition requires BOTH the parenthetical condition and the sunrise/sunset condition to be true (because of the AND statement). When sunrise occurs, forcing an evaluation of your program's "if" condition, it will evaluate as false, because it is not between sunset and sunrise. This is the case, even if the parenthetical-grouped-or condition is true for any reason. In fact, is this not exactly how you designed it? You do not want it to trigger ("then") between sunrise and sunset, correct? Is this not the sole purpose for having the sunset/surnise condition? Therefore, any evaluation peformed between sunrise and sunset will, by design, be false, and run the "else" path. Alternatively, what do you expect to happen if the motion sensor detects motion at sunrise + 1 second? Would you expect the program to evaluate as true, or false? Why?

I believe the universal devices wiki represents the users manual. Status represents the last run of the program, regardless of how long ago. A status of "true" indicates it last run the "then" condition. A status of false, "else". Regarding the email question, I understand that customizable message were part of a recent software upgrade, but I have not investigated personally. Which version are you running?

I agree that this program is written such that it should not trigger anything during the day. Is it possible that you have another program that is calling the "then" statement of this program? I believe it is also possible that a light triggered less than 9m30s before sunrise would stay on until after the next sunset. Is it possible this is what you are experiencing?

While I am not sure I would use your motion conditions as stated, I doubt this has anything to do with coming on during the day. The only thing that I can think is that your clock is, somehow, in the wrong time zone or set incorrectly. You don't have any scenes in which the motion sensor and lights are part of, do you?

I think your are correct, xlurkr. It appears, based on the program, that the switch also controls the load. If so, turning the switch off (even fast off) will turn the load off, programs or scenes notwithstanding. Since you control the load via the switch, there aren't many ways to do this. You could get an inlinelinc and mount it in the fixture box, then program this much like you have. Short of any new devices, you could add a line in your program: If Control 'Shop Fan' is switched Fast Off Then Set 'Shop fan" on Wait 10 seconds Set 'Shop Fan' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') But this would, no doubt, result in the light going off for a second-or-so.

Yes. In this case your "on" levels for that scene would be 100%, 50%, and 0%.

What kind of IR receiver do you have? ISY-99IR? Insteon IRLinc? Other?

Anyone who uses the word "vestige" can handle all the complexity I am capable of providing.

I made suggestions, based on your programs. First, I see no reason to put it in a folder if you have no folder conditions. Take the programs out of the folder. The rest, I will modify your programs: A1. BackYard Motion Sensed - this program, when enabled, will sense motion, and call for the timer program. If From Sunset To Sunrise (next day) And ( Control 'MS Garage' is switched On or Control 'MS House' is switched On ) And Status 'Back Porch Light' is not On And Status 'Garage Light' is not On Then Run Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' (Then Path) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes - this program is called by the A1 motion sense program and turns the lights on, waits three minutes, then turns them off If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' On Wait 3 minutes Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A3. BackYard Lights Switched On - this program watches for EITHER of the two light switches to be turned on. If so, it will stop any active timer program and disable the sense program If Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched On or Control 'Garage Light' is switched On Then Stop program 'BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' disable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A4. BackYard Lights Switched Off - this program watches for either of the two lights to be turned off, at which point it will re-enable the a1 motion sense program If Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched Off or Control 'Garage Light' is switched Off Then enable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A5. BackYard Lights Daily Reset - turns lights off at 30 minutes past dawn. I left the enable program in, just in case it has been disabled by manual action If Time is Sunrise + 30 minutes Then Set 'Back Porch Light' Off Set 'Garage Light' Off Enable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A6 - motion disable - this program watches for the double-tap and disables motion in response. If Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched fast Off or Control 'Garage Light' is switched fast Off Then disable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') I am sure that there are many ways to code this. I would also be surprised if there was not at least one error in there. Feel free to give it a try and identify where it does not meet your stated requirements.

I made suggestions, based on your programs. First, I see no reason to put it in a folder if you have no folder conditions. Take the programs out of the folder. The rest, I will modify your programs: A1. BackYard Motion Sensed - this program, when enabled, will sense motion, and call for the timer program. If From Sunset To Sunrise (next day) And ( Control 'MS Garage' is switched On or Control 'MS House' is switched On ) And Status 'Back Porch Light' is not On And Status 'Garage Light' is not On Then Run Program 'A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' (Then Path) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes - this program is called by the A1 motion sense program and turns the lights on, waits three minutes, then turns them off If - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition') Then Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' On Wait 3 minutes Set Scene 'BackYard Lighting' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A3. BackYard Lights Switched On - this program watches for EITHER of the two light switches to be turned on. If so, it will stop any active timer program and disable the sense program If Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched On or Control 'Garage Light' is switched On Then Stop program 'BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes' disable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A4. BackYard Lights Switched Off - this program watches for either of the two lights to be turned off, at which point it will re-enable the a1 motion sense program If Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched Off or Control 'Garage Light' is switched Off Then enable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A5. BackYard Lights Daily Reset - turns lights off at 30 minutes past dawn. I left the enable program in, just in case it has been disabled by manual action If Time is Sunrise + 30 minutes Then Set 'Back Porch Light' Off Set 'Garage Light' Off Enable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') A6 - motion disable - this program watches for the double-tap and disables motion in response. If Control 'Back Porch Light' is switched fast Off or Control 'Garage Light' is switched fast Off Then disable Program 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') I am sure that there are many ways to code this. I would also be surprised if there was not at least one error in there. Feel free to give it a try and identify where it does not meet your stated requirements.

True or false is simply the result of the last evaluation. If a program was last evaluated three days ago, and it evaluated true (and ran the "then" path), then that program is currently true, and will remain so until it is evaluated again. This all sounds correct to me. One subtlety, programs can be called externally, by other programs, even if disabled. So....while the programs in your folder will not run by themselves if the folder condition is false, they can still be called by other program statements, such as run (if), run (then), or run (else).

That is the delay associated with programs. It is good that you got the program figured out, but I would definitely try the scene approach if the delay bothers you.

It should be satisfying. It demonstrates your ability to think and to reason. Such skills put you near the top of your class.

I was, like fitzparti8, thinking scenes, but was not smart enough to come up with the correct combination. I kept thinking "a device can be controller of only one scene, but a responder in many". Looking at his response, I would amend as follows, for clarity: While you could do this with programs, I prefer scenes when possible. The are not reliant on the ISY, and they are quicker. This is consistent with my earlier explanation, I believe. Your program would never execute the "else" path, because it only triggers upon receipt of an "on" command, and always evaluates as true. Yes...it sounds like you have a good grasp of how this works. That is why I was looking for a better explanation than "This didn't work and neither did using the status".

I may be overlooking it, but I see five programs, labeled programs 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. I see no program labeled "A2.BackYard Lights on 3 Minutes" or 'A1.BackYard Motion Sensed'. I see no device in your program called "back door light" What are the folder conditions?

I think, indeed, that you correctly answered your own question.