oberkc

I think, that after the cleanup, the mismatches are gone and the only s "strange" ones are marked extra. That is good to know that they are normal. I continue to get a lot of flashing keypads, and I understand that is an indication of a failure to communicate with one or more of the linked devices. I am unsure how to positively troubleshoot those kinds of problems and thought that the extra links may have been a suspect. I guess not. One of the things that did change when I added the dedicated ISY ciruit is that I also included a plug close to the panel, where I positioned one of the access points. This is the second plug next to the panel, the first one already having an access point. They are on different phases, so this seemed like a good opportunity to ensure good phase coupling. Perhaps this is causing some unintended consequences. I may try to move around some of my other two access points to see it I can achieve some better communication.

I thought I would continue this post, just in case there was any further interest. For the recent couple of months, I have continued to run with the plm on an extension cord to a location further from the computer stuff. Scene tests have been mostly successful in this configuration. Lately, I finally got around to installing the dedicated circuit to the computer room, as suggested and agreed, to power the PLM (and ISY) and only the plm. While the house looks nicer without the extension cord running through the hall, the system does not work as well. I get more communication problems. Most keypad presses are followed by flashing buttons and lights that fail to come on. I also have been checking device link tables and am now finding mismatches between the ISY and devices. I tried a factory reset on one of the devices, then reload the links from the ISY, and continue to get "extra" records. Mismatches, however, are now gone. Perhaps I am simply not destined to achieved that state of near flawless insteon operation. Perhaps there is simply just too much problem with our power supply. For now, the ambition is exhausted. I will have to wait until the supply is replenished.

I can't be a lot of help, but is it possible your remote batteries are getting low? Batteries in a remote can rebound a bit after not being used, but then quit after a couple of commands.

My two do the same. I have assumed this is normal. The blink is very quick, almost as if it is momentarily loosing contact.

I wanted to offer more thoughts and suggestions. I suggest two folders, the first like this: If From Sunset To 10:00:00PM (same day) Then Allow the programs in this folder to run. The second program folder like this: If From 10:00:00PM To Sunrise (next day) Then Allow the programs in this folder to run. In the first folder would be two programs: If Time is Sunset + 2 seconds Then Set "outside lights' 60% Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') The second program in the first folder would be: If Control 'motion sensor' is switched On Then Set 'outside lights' On Wait 1 minute Set 'outside light' 60% Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') I added a couple seconds to the on time, simply because I was not sure how the ISY handles the folder start time and program start time being the same. It may not be necessary. If this works as I believe it would, then between sunset and 10p, these two programs would produce the desired result. To the second folder, for the hours between 10p and sunrise, I would add the following two programs If Control ' motion sensor' is switched On Then Set 'outside lights' On Wait 1 minute Set 'outside lights' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') and If Time is 10:01:00PM Then Set 'outside lights' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') I make the turn-off time to be 1001, just in case the light was triggered on right at 1000. I figure this is close enough

I can speak conceptually at this point, but my suggestion would be to create two program folders.... one to activate from sunset to 1000 and the other from 1000 to sunrise. In the first folder have two programs. One to turn it up to 60% at sunset (or a few seconds after), and the second to respond to the motion detector to full on, wait one minute, then back to 60%. In the second folder, start with a program to turn the light off at 1001 (to account for the possibility the the light was on the 1 minute full on condition. A second program would respond to the motion sensor like the other program, except turning if off after a minute. I can see a minor chance of issues during the change from one folder to the other, but a bit more thought about using some conditions would solve that. I will think more when I get some time.

Grief, no. A little more time, possibly. I had such a course of action in the back of my mind, probably in response to other posts from you. My hesitancy was simply an attempt to save my last two spare slots for other purposes which may or may not happen. Your reminder has given me reason to consider this option, and I think that is the route I will take. I will deal with the consequences, if any, later. I love the capability that this gives me, and I would probably give other things up before this. Thanks for the reminder.

No pain felt anywhere. I agree with your assessment....there is still some device causing problems. Yes, I would like to track it down and kill it. Someday, I will. There are not many devices on that circuit beyond those associated with the computer system, and they are all on a noise filter, and those that aren't are unplugged at this point. Furthermore, most of those devices are ones that I want to keep. They include things like the computer, power supplies for the network, external drive, skype phone, USB phone extension, X-10 RF reciever, printer. But you make a good point....besides, when I moved all these devices themselves to another circuit, the problem persisted, which seems to indicate there is something that I have not found. While I was hoping to be able to spend time on other things, I suppose I would be potentially able to avoid adding the extra plug if I could isolate the problem and get rid of it. Perhaps that would be time better spent. Thanks for taking the time to understand the problem. That has been a lot of reading. I am impressed you took the time.

Again, I am cautiously optimistic. Thanks to the suggestion by Mike R (to put the PLM on the extension cord rather than the computer system...I doubt I would have thought to try that), my Insteon setup appears to work. While I notice differing responses to the scene test at different point during the day, the system responds without fault. Regardin the scene test, I have created a "test" scene (another suggestion by a helpful forum member) and now have EVERY device in it. While the success rate is not 100%, the event viewer gives me a sense that things are communicating. In the past, a scene test appeared to get hung up at times. Now, it races (relatively) through each device. Furthermore, in the past, I was not always successful querying or adding devices to a scene. Since making the change, I have been able to modify scenes all day. I also performed a few device link table compare functions and updated various devices. These were also functions I was not always able to do. I will watch for a few days. If continued working, I plan simply to add another outlet to the computer room and power it from the plug into which the PLM/extension cord are now plugged. Your support and encouragement has been a big part of this job. Hopefully, I will be able to repay those from UDI when they come out with thier next great product. Ken

What quick responses. I cannot keep up. Yes, all links are created by ISY. That would mean that the ISY is part of each scene. Failure to communicate with ISY would thus cause the flashing light, then. Thanks. Will do. Thanks. I thought the primary purpose of this experiment was to separate the ISY from all the devices associated with the computer. There is not much left on that circuit, but I will try, just in case I am missing something. I had no conclusive results. No better. No worse. I still have an access point in the PLM. I have a total of four access points. I know that the one on the PLM is one phase and that another is the second phase. I have not checked the phases of the third and fourth. I will further identify phases for the third and fourth access points and ensure at least one is on the same phase as the PLM's access point. Actually, I no don't use an X-10 transmitter. I use the ISY to trigger all X-10 timers. Some of the keypad links have X-10 addresses, but these are getting fewer and fewer. Mostly now, it is just seasonal holiday lights and a fountain. For the record, even in my case, with the troubles I am having, insteon is better than X-10. I am trying to do far more with insteon than I ever dreamed possible with X-10. Indeed, I understand. This is an insteon (and possiblly any powerline control) issue and not ISY-99. I remain thrilled with the ISY and the support. That is a trick that I used successfully with X-10 but did not reveal anything when tried with insteon. I am starting to suspect that part of my problems are the culmination of many devices, not all being on at any given point of time. Lots of flourescent lights, for example, but not any single flourescent light. Furnace or AC. Well pumps. LED bulbs. Power supplies. I probably have more than my fair share of things many claim to be problems. Computer controlled washers/dryers. At one point, I tried unplugging almost devices. Things seemed to improve. I started plugging things back in and things stayed good for a while. Then they got worse. I will try the circuit trick again someday when I get ambitous. Unfortunately, I am getting to the point of having enough insteon devices that it is hard to turn off a circuit without turning off at least one device. Some I can move, but many are hard wired, and mvoing some would mean that I have changed two variables, so the results may not be conclusive. There are still some things to try, it is just that those things are seriously time-consuming, and I am not yet willing to dedicate a whole day or weekend. I was hoping that I would not have to. Thanks to all.

Thanks to all for the continued response. Regarding phase, I have maintained access points on both phases. I don't know what else to do. Access point indications (LED) is as expected per instructions. Regarding loose neutral, I have tightened a few without improvement. But this gets back to the lack of troubleshooting....there is no way that I can think of to identify such a problem. I suppose one could simply remove every device in the house and check/tighten, but that does not sound reasonable to me. I must admit to being a little concerned about the types of plugs I am finding....those kind with the back-stabbed connections. I wonder if that is a problem. No way to know, I guess. Regarding the device itself, I originally moved the offending devices to the same circuit (plug, even) as the PLM and all appear to work normally at that point. One consistently-troublesome device, however, is wired in. I may try moving an access point close by. Given that all devices appear to work at least some of the time, I have been assuming that the devices themselves have not failed. Perhaps this is not a good assumption? Yes, I think I understand to that level. Perhaps my point was not clear. In my example, I have a switchlink that works near perfectly. It responds to ISY, and controls a module. I conclude that communication to this device must be good, and communication between this device and the module must be good. However, when ISY attempts to turn on this same module, it is not always successful, even though (based on my earlier conclusions) that communication to the switch is good, that communication between the switch and module is good (with the switch repeating the commands), and that communication between the switch and module is good. Perhaps it is hop counts or something. This was just not what I was expecting, especially in light of the claim that additional devices improves communication. Thanks for the explanation. Is the ISY considered part of the scene? I assume not, but sometimes I am not so sure. I still don't have the ability to identify which of the members is not responding. All I know is that something somewhere is not responding or coummunicating. I find it difficult to reach any conclusions from this. Especially when all the devices (not counting the ISY) in the scene appear to respond. Per the suggestions of many, I have tried running the computer from an extension cord in an attempt to get it away (electrically speaking) from the ISY. I see no improvement. Oh well...I will keep fooling around with things. Thanks to all who are offering suggestions and responses. I apologize for not being sufficiently clear on some of these things. Ken

I have yet to try the trick of moving the PLM away from the computer. Unfortunately, that is not practical and will require some re-wiring. Perhaps someday. Maybe I should try a long extension cord to test it out. All my computer stuff are on one of those noise filters, but it may not be enough. I have a lot of things near the computer, including many power supplies (but no UPS). I have also moved around the access points and confirmed all are the same version (1.0). I cannot find any combination that improves performance. I also have some residual X-10 stuff. I have a dryer coupler and an RF interface for some motion sensors. Experiments have lead me to believe this is not a problem. Like you, Mike, I have near perfect reliability when toggling scenes from insteon switches. Also, none of my devices fail all the time, leading me to the conclusion that the programming is there correctly, but they are just having communication troubles. Tonight, I removed the last of my lutron electronic dimmers and replaced them with insteon. That went without problem, including programming and insertion into scenes. Unfortunately, I did not notice an improvement in communication, as evidence by the ISY-99 scene test. I also added a few additional plug-in modules, hoping that the continued addition of devices improved overall communication. While this hasn't been enough in the past to solve my communication problems, I think (after just a half-hour or so of experimenting) that these latest modules may be helping. What continues to puzzle me is 1) communication between insteon modules appears good, 2) insteon modules are supposed to repeat commands, yet 3) the ISY cannot reach some modules, even though it can reach an adjacent one, which should be repeating the commands. Clearly, there is a level of understanding that I don't pocess. I also wish I knew how to interpret the flashing LEDs on insteon keypads. I know this is some type of error and assume it is related to communication, but I wish I could isolate the exact communication problem. This would sure help with troubleshooting. Speaking of troubleshooting, that, in the end, is the part of insteon that I consider most frustrating. I can find no way to positively identify problems. Instead, troubleshooting is trial-and-error, and often not conclusive. Still, it is fun and useful to folks like me who don't mind tinkering a bit. I am not sure that I could recommend it to those who aren't willing to play around a bit. Even with the problems, I consider it a benefit to my life. I cannot always say that about technology.

While I started this post asking about ISY states, it has morphed to a general troubleshooting discussion and more about the insteon communication problems, rather than problems with the ISY. I have not spent a lot of time on my system over the last few months until tonight, when I started some upgrades, adding a few more switches and modules. I continued to experience communication problems adding devices to scenes, but was ultimately successful by moving access points around to be closer to the affected devices during the scene setup. While I continue to consider this a patch, I have not been able to identify or eliminate any single device which causes problems. I have come to suspect my case of communication problems may be a composite of many devices. I had A LOT of flourescent lights on early, and could never complete a scene. Turning them all off helped. Having only one or two on does not seem to cause a problem. I was also hoping that the removal of some lutron electronic dimmers and replacing them with insteon would improve communications. I had earlier noticed that the lutron dimmers would sometimes react (blink, flash) to x-10 or insteon commands, so I thought it was possible that they generated or absorbed signals. So far, I have seen no improvement after removing two. I have two more to go. Perhaps removing those last two will help. For now, I will continue to live with less than 99% reliability. It is still better than flipping switches.

I use clear, self-stick printer paper available at office supply stores and print out a bunch of labels using excel or word. You can stick them on the button or besides. I won't vouch for the long-term durability, but it is not a bad option.

I have problems, but they are with communication. ISY, for me, works without any of the issues you describe. My installation is not as large, but I have X-10 motion sensors, about 10 KPLs, switchlinks, togglelinks, numerous modules, X-10 modules for holiday lights, about 10 scenes, and about 10 programs. I have performed about a half dozen software updates. All have gone off without issue. Changes to programs or scenes go without problem, except when the communication bug hits (which is intermittent). I have always assumed that this was normal.

I have done this by the brute force method....added multiple "or" conditions with each of the controllers in a given scene. In other words, if I have a scene with three controllers A, B, and C, then create a program with condition if A is switched on (or off or whatever), or if B is switched on, or if C is switched on, then perform an action.

I have had this problem also, without resolution, having tried all the suggested remedies. Hopefully, this will fix mine, as well.

Yes, 200 amp service with two spare slot for breakers. Of course, if I am able to add all devices to a given scene (test or otherwise), that alone is some indication that things are working. One of my indications of communication problems is the inability to add devices to scenes. The two devices giving me the most consistent problems are incadescent. I have not been satisfied with dimmable florescent. The problems with these two modules have been the inability to add to scenes, failure to go on, failure to go off, going on when they should be going off, and scene test failures. Of course, not all these problems are 100% consistent. Sometimes they work. I did my taxes a month ago and recieved a refund in a couple weeks. One can now do taxes and e-file for free, regardless of income. What a concept....our government tries to encourage e-file, but up to now, charged for the privelege. Enjoy!

1. About 2700 sq feet, plus basement....Story and a half 2. about 1992 3. Active Repeater 4. X10 has been problematic over the few years I have been fooling around with this sort of stuff. Some days were better than others. 5. No boosterlinc that I know of Will revisit. I am not sure that I understand a "whole house" scene. Is this a scene that contains all the devices that I own? Once done, I assume I am looking for consistently bad actors via the scene test, which would in turn point to a bad circuits? Right now, the evening program ran without fault. Also everything turned off last night. Two-in-a-row! I am trying to balance the amount of effort I want to put into this with tolerance towards a few missed commands. An interesting thing happened the other night, though, when a light which was previously off at night was on in the morning. Yet, there are all commands overnight are to turn things off and I have a backup program which turns the whole "network" off. Missed commands are one thing. Wrong responses (or random occurances) are another. I will keep trying, but weather is warming and the yard work is backing up.

I have had a chance, now, to continue to troubleshoot. Tightening the physical connections to a couple of suspect switches and plugs did not solve the problem. I started the painful process of trying to identify devices in the house that may be contributing to communication problems. I unplugged all TVs, X-10 modules, wall power supplies, etc. I also unplugged the washer and dryer, as well as the X-10 bridge at the dryter 220V outlet. I also moved one of the two primary access point to a plug physically closer to the panel. After confirming that the second access point (adjacent to the PLM) was on the opposite leg, I installed access points three and four at locations dictated by the insteon remotes without regard for which leg they were on. All CFLs remained, but few were on. At one point, I was able to achieve reliable communication based on the ISY scene test results. All scenes appeared to operate properly. Then a few stopped. Perhaps an appliance came on? Perhaps it was the furnace? I started adding back a few devices. No single device appeared to create a problem, but when all were put back, scene tests were less than 100% passed. I understand that that is not necessarily a guarantee of failure, but it appeared to be evidence that the composite of electrical devices throughout the house contribute to some level of signal loss....sufficient, perhaps, to reduce insteon reliability to the level of minor frustration. I have also tried the "compare" function on a few of the devices. I did notice some mis-matches on one device, and another that appeared to match up pretty well. Unfortunately, that function takes a lot of time on my system, and to perform that test on all would consume hours. I added a few seconds pause between program commands. Perhaps there were some communication clashes. After all this, I will observe the system performance over the next few weeks and see if anything improves. I sure wish there was a reasonable way to measure power signal noise and signal strength, and the effect of adding and removing devices. The trial-and-error method is not very efficient. I sure don't see myself buying on o-scope but perhaps I will find other options.

Let me know if you need any more details.

Also, I do not percieve this as a GUI problem. Yes, the programs ran as scheduled. Yes, the ISY updated the sunrise/sunset times to reflect the DST condition. Unforunately, the ISY clock was an hour behind, and the programs executed one hour late compare to real time, including those based on sunrise and sunset. This does not strike me as a GUI problem. Everything ran per the ISY settings.

Yes, I am using a custom location. I see no cities from Ohio listed.

Do that you know all the details that I can think would be relevant.... I have had "daylight savings" button checked for as long as I have been using the device. I can't remember when I purchased it, but it is possible that this is the first daylight savings transition I have experienced with the ISY. I have always had the automatic time synch with internet checked, but it has never worked in my experience. I used the default site. As you suggested earlier, though, this may have been due to the fact that I have not always had internet access enabled. Internet access on my machine was activated a couple weeks ago, well ahead of daylight savings transition. This did not fix my synching problem. I was able to access my ISY from other locations using my laptop, which gave me some level of confidence that internet access was working. Daylight savings transition time came and went, and the ISY did not adjust time. It appeared, however, to recognize new sunrise and sunset times based on the one-hour advance in time. I unplugged the cat-5 cable/power from the back of the ISY in the hopes of "rebooting" the ISY. No synch. No DST. I noticed recently that there was a red exclamation point at the configuration tab where the daylight savings box is checked. I tried a couple of the other sites suggested on another threat for time and found one that appeared to work. It believe it was a numeral-based IP address. Unfortunately, I cannot confirm that because the ISY has now defaulted back to the pool.ntp.org site. At this point, there is no red exclamation point and the clock appears accurate.

My version is 2.7