oberkc

I must confess to not being a user of the insteon motion sensor. All mine are X-10. I understand that the insteon sensor must reset itself before it can, again, sense motion. Can you not configure the sensor to reset itself without sending an off command? After enabling the off command, for how long did you set your time-out? What was the result of your experiment. There are A LOT of posts regarding motion sensors and programming. Some of the programming can get very creative. I can say, however, that your needs are nothing unusual. I think there is even a wiki article about this. It is worth searching and checking out.

I learned most of what I know by experimentation. Go ahead and enable the off command, and see if the new program will work. I was not sure if recieving the off command would force the program to re-evaluate itself before the 10 minute timer was complete, but assumed that it would. If this does not work, then change it back. If setting your off command breaks your program, then there are probably other options. It is sometimes good to check the simple solutions first. One possibility would be to create a program without "if" conditions, having only an else to turn on the light, wait ten minutes, then turn off the light. A second program would watch of motion sensor "on" commands, then run the first program's "then" statement. For example Program one: if then turn light on wait 10 minutes, turn light off else Program 2: If control motion sensor is turned on then run program 1 then path else I believe that program 1 else path would continue to run, regardless of the presence of a motion sensor off signal.

Have you checked your event view to ensure you are recieving the signal? I assume that this is not an issue. I understand that insteon motion sensors have jumpers that must be set, depending on your needs. Is your set to send an off signal when it reset? I assume that ISY status is based on recieving on and off signals, but that is just a guess. Are you motion lights set up as a scene controller with the study lights? In this case, I don't believe that would achieve the results you are looking for. Having asked all those questions, I suggest ensuring that your motion sensor is set so that it does NOT send an off signal. Then, write a program looking something like: If Control 'Study Motion-Sensor' is turned On Then Set Scene 'Study Lights' On Wait 10 minutes Set Scene 'Study Lights' Off Else I suspect you were getting into problems with the program re-evaluating itself mid execution, which is not good. I also recall a recent thread on this very same topic. Try searching for motion sensors. You will find much.

Thanks, Mark. I, too, have already created a program with this technique. It solves a problem I have not been able to address. Until now. Scenes, in my mind, are simply another way to link insteon devices, so that they respond to each other. It duplicates the manual linking process described in the manual of the various devices. Programs allow actions in response to conditions. Conditions may be time, sunset, darkness, motion, temperature, garage doors, or just about anything else one can imagine. Conditions may also be other insteon signals. Therefore, it is possible to duplicate scenes with programs, but I consider it better to use scenes where applicable. I don't think I would have remembered this, but I don't see keypad buttons (other than the primary) as a device which can be controlled by a program command. This surprised me...I thought that I had used this capability before. Perhaps it is one of those things available on certain versions of keypads and not on others. But you can put these buttons in a scene and then control the scene in a command. Go figure.

So, let's see if I have this right...you want the KPLA to control kitchen lights. So, you have set up a scene with KPLA as a controller of a scene with other devices (switches, I assume). Did you set up those devices as controllers also, or just responders? It sounds like they are just responders. I am not in a position to confirm at this point, but my recollection is that when the ISY turns on a controller of a scene (KPLA, in your case), the scene does NOT activate. But this sounds contrary to your experience. If my understanding is accurate, then a program: if kitchen island is turned on or kitchen lights are turned on or other kitchen lights are turned on then turn on KPLA would do the job. Maybe tomorrow, I can play around some more to check this out. Sorry I cannot be more help tonight.

Is this an 8-button KPL? KPLA is the controller of the load, right? If so, then turning it on turns on the load. I don't believe there is any getting around this. That is the design of the keypad. However, all other buttons are controllable in this way.

I would double check to confirm it is not set to non-toggle on, otherwise, I have no explanation within the realm of a functioning device. Though I have never tried it, is it possible that this keypad is part of a scene that has turned it on, or in response to a programmed command? I am not even sure that it is possible to turn on a keypad set into the non-toggle off mode, but it may be worth checking.

OK. So...everything is working like you hoped, but you just wanted a better understanding of the event log?

I have found nothing that I can do manually that I cannot do with the ISY, but many things with the ISY that I cannot do manually. I have also found no limitations that the ISY imparts upon devices. I may have misunderstood your problem, but I also have some 6-button dimming keypads, programmed through the ISY. I can still dim the hardwired light. Press and hold. Am I missing something here?

I would watch the event viewer while you press your remote buttons to make sure that the event is recieved and is consistent with the "if" condition of your program.

It sounds like your program executed exactly as intended. Is this correct? I assume you refer to the status as indicated by the admin panel? My guess is that, since motion sensors do not listen for insteon signals, nor respond to them, that the ISY does not recieve an acknowledgement back, so it assumes that is remains on. I am not sure that this will create a problem for you besides being a nuissance when you open the admin panel.

Yeah, I miss MSDOS. Yes, I agree, there is some level of learning curve with this little black box. Still, I would not like to go back to running through the house pushing buttons. And the programs (if, then, else) is something that cannot be done without a device like this or some other automation software.

I have never been able to get this to work. I am not sure that this helps, but one thing you can do through a program is adjust the on levels and ramp rates for devices within scenes. Perhaps this offers some options to accomplish your goals.

I suspect this has something to do with your keypad being non-dimmer. Is this a possibility? I have a scene not unlike yours and notice the same thing. When the main scene is selected, all devices show up. Even ramp rates and on levels, even though ramp rates and on levels are not adjustable with relay keypads. Then when you choose one of the controller devices (keypad C, in your case, all devices that are not dimmer go away). Since on levels and ramp rates are not adjustable on relays, I guess the question is not why they don't show up, but why they do when the scene is selected. I also recall certain issues with controlling the load button with another button on the same keypad, but I think this had to do with the mutual exclusion option. If your keypad is a dimming version, we will have to dig a little deeper. Perhaps the forum's smart people have some other ideas.

Out of curiosity, are the other keys lit while in the off condition? My experience is that non-toggle off buttons will be dim, based on the setting of the entire keypad. I recall, too, that earlier models of keypads have differing capabilities with regards to backlighting and ISY access to this feature.

How did you program the A button? Through the ISY or at the keypad? Remember, or be advised, that these devices, including the ISY, allows one to set different on levels, depending on how a scene is activiated. One could set it up to turn on at 50% if activated by the ISY/PLM and 100% if activated by the keypad. To check, open the scene where you can see the included devices. Click on the scene folder. I assume you see the on level for light B at 50%. Now click on keypad A (within the scene). What is the on level for light B now show? Does it show 100%. If so, change it to 50%. I think, too, there is an option to copy setting from scene. If not, we will have to find another solution.

Yes, I agree with MarkJames. Unless you see signs of problems, not to worry. Still, it would be interesting to know what this is, and why it happens. I have recently heard that access points also have insteon addresses. I wonder if these sometimes show up in the device' links database.

I am curious...what device controls your lights? Inline linc? My temptation would actually be to create two scenes. One soft. One bright. Each scene would have the same responders, but only the single, applicable controller. Set the scene attributes as you describe. Keep your buttons mutually exclusive. Your programs would be nothing more than setting each scene, according to your described conditions. if dusk set scene dim on if motion set scene bright on wait xx minutes set scene dim on You could, of course, do this the brute force method: if dusk set KPLC on set r1 - xx set r2 = xx set r3 = xx etc.... but I think I would try the first option.

I have been experienced mismatches between ISY-displayed status and actual device status. I am told that, under certain circumstances, ISY assumes a status based on commands sent, and does not necessarily rely on a query or response to confirm. Yes, communications sounds to me like a plausible explanation for your issues.

I think I saw something about older switchlinks not able to control all the buttons from ISY. I would have to search the forum to confirm. Regarding the spouse messing with scenes, the options I see all involve some spouse retraining. If you set the local-controlled on level to match that of the scene, then it would be possible to return that light back to the scene level by a single press on. To get to full on, use either two, quick on taps, or press and hold until it reaches the desired level. You have a problem unkown to me. My wife never turns off lights.

I will be interested in this as well. I want to permanently install these types of lights so that I don't have to put christmas decorations up each year (and take them down in the cold).

I was not sure whether you had or had not enabled any of the X-10 addresses. Still, I have heard folks say that they can come from the factory with addresses. If you performed a factory reset before installation, then this is likely not a problem. Under event viewer, I would expect to see an X-10 command, including house code, number, and on/off/dim/bright, etc... It is pretty obvious if it is there. Instructions for removing X-10 addresses are in the instructions for each device. If you don't have them, they are available on-line. In general, put your device into unlinking mode (hold button 10 seconds, then hold again for 10 seconds) then send three consecutive, identical x-10 addresses (it does not matter which).

Is it possible that some of your devices have an X-10 address assigned? I hear they can come from the factory this way. You can watch the event viewer for signs of X-10 activity. If so, follow the intructions for removing X-10 addresses from your affected devices.

Rand, Are you saying that the 2474D and 2475D are different devices, both inline, but with one having limited access to the scene attributes? If so, I would be a bit frustrated with smarthome. If so, then would swapping out the parts from the 2-wire dimmer kit with a "normal" switch and "normal" inline link solve Mr Martin's problems with direct scene control?

if a is turned off or b is turned off or c is turned off ..... Then turn off KPL-A