rlanza1054

Ok, once I wrote 2 posts and somehow I lost them both. Maybe it's the way this new Edge Browser is setup that a certain key ends up taking me away from my composition window. Ok, I have some screenshots. I am going to try that program to test the sensor. But I think at this point, I should just call UDI. I'm just frustrated, I can't get this stupid little thing working. And it should be this hard. I'm not that stupid. Rob

I just wrote a reply two pages long and as usual, I accidentally closed the browser. I was trying to put together the log files to attach them to that post. Because its late here this is an extremely short version of the post. I followed Lee's recommendation to the letter. No programs. Each sensor set to 'ON Only' Two scenes: One to turn on the bathroom light using the motion sensor inside the bathroom. (This scene is set t0 100%, which turns on the bathroom light with the On command from the scene) The second scene to turn off the bathroom light using the sensor outside the bathroom. (This second scene is set to 0%, which turns off the bathroom light with the On command from the scene) Both scenes work when using the ISY in admin mode, going to each scene and tapping the on-screen On button of each scene. The On scene turns ON the light. The Off scene turns OFF the light. Again, they both work correctly tap the on-screen 'ON' button. But for some reason the motion sensor setup into the scene to turn the Bathroom light OFF, is not turning off the light using the motion sensors detector itself. The scene setup to turn On the bathroom light is working to turn on the light using its motion detector. So now, why is the motion sensor that is in the scene set to turn off the light not working, This is exactly how Lee told me to setup everything. It works when using then on-screen 'On' button, but not the communication from that sensor when its sending an On detected? I made a backup of the entire ISY and saved all the log files. I am attaching all of it in one zip file. Hopefully, you can tell me what is going? Thank you! Rob rlanzaisybackuplogerrorloglinktables.zip

I am waiting for the bus and something just clicked in my head. I think I know now why everyone has been telling me to just use a scene. I don't think I have really understood the power and flexibility of a scene. Up until now, I only saw a scene as a way to link two devices together. But if I am hearing (reading) this right, a scene could be used to set a condition. So I could have one scene that turns on a light to 50 percent for example, and then a second separate scene have the same exact light be set to turn on a light to 75 percent. If that is true, then I actually never understood how powerful a scene could be. I think the reason for this misunderstanding was I did not see how to make something like that happen in setting up a scene. I did not see where you set the scene, not the device to 50 percent. When I get back from dentist, I am eager now to investigate how that is done. I'm sure its there some where. It just never occurred to me. Even with everyone telling me to do just that. No need to reply to this, let me look when I get home to confirm all of this on my own. Rob Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

I gave everyone a break over the weekend. its good to take a break from this stuff. I put some time into figuring out some problems and no I have not yet tried the last few suggestions. I didn't see them until today. Sorry about. I am very well aware that everyone is tearing their hair out trying to get me working and understanding how it all works. It is harder for me to learn via the written word, I did say I have dysliixa so I can read it but it gets jumbled at times, that's why I rely on visual to go along with written. But I am aware that everyone is helping me. One thing that I learned that it was bad for me to have use the set button on the MS to turn on the light and to turn it off, to help me with testing. I had the MS next to me with the computer. I then learned that its very important when writing and testing the program to actually know what the ISY sees. I was positioned the MS within hands reach next to my laptop, but within view of the bathroom so I could watch the light go on and off. But as it turned out, it really matters what the ISY sees. I discovered that the reason the my program were not working in the ability to turn the light off, was that the ISY thought the light was ON, because that is what the ISY saw. As its was stated in the previous messages. I would like to see the status of a device or what the ISY sees, while in the program page. Maybe just pop-up moveable window showing the status of the devives I am working on. Today, when I double checked it seems the Summary page allows that, but you do have to toggle back into the program page to make any changes. But its workable with the summary page. Then I learned that my idea of just setting the Motion Sensors to the ON ONLY, the ISY kept seeing the MS as ON, after the first trip of the MS, it never goes off, so you never have a false to go to an ELSE or anything. The ISY never sees a change because the MS never changes from an ON to an OFF, its always ON. Its was a good lesson. Then to make matters worse, today when I brought up the Summary Page, I noticed that I had two programs with the same name. I went back to the Details tab and found that some how a entire copy of ALL the programs 'My Programs' folder (the default folder), had been copied into the folder I made for the Bathrooms. I don't remember ever doing a copy but it might have happened accidentally when I did the copy to clipboard to paste the program here. This is an easy fix, but I need tp watch out for these stupid unintentional mistakes. In the end late Friday, I changed from ON ONLY on both an for the most part it works....but... I have an idea why its still n0t working perfectly. But before I go on, I am going to remove everything and just slow it up a bit and try the suggestions everyone made in the last few message you all posted. Then when I have that, we will all be on the same page and it will be easier for you to help anything that isn't working. But right now, I need to run into the city for a dental appointment and when I get back I will re-program the ISY exactly as you are telling me to try. Again, thank you! Rob

To get into linking mode tap and hold for about 3 seconds the LED will slow flash, then tap again quickly, the LED with flash quicly, now its in linking mode. But as I tested it, just a single tap will send and ON, tap again no matter hold much time went by it will send an OFF . So I guess it cannot be really used for a real event test. Shucks, made things easier. Since I have the MS set to ONLY, I don't want the OFF being sent, I will get inaccurate results. But after a long day playing and posting a dozen messages this is what I ended up with, it works but for some reasothe ISY sometimes does do what its supposed to do. It could be that I'm doing it faster than the ISY can perform the actions or some other ISY setting is preventing it to react. I get a window flashing up that you can see its taking more time than it should. Big Bathroom Sensor On - [iD 0016][Parent 0017] If Control 'Bathroom Big-Sensor' is switched On And Control 'Bathroom Big-Sensor' is not switched Off Then Enable Program 'Big Bathroom Sensor 2 Off' Set Scene 'Live - Key H' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Something is not right, sometimes it is not enabling the Big Bathroom Sensor 2 program? I added to turn off a NOT used Keypadlinc Key, the H key. I can get a visual that the program got to that line of code and wasn't a commuicastion error. Big Bathroom Sensor 2 Off - [iD 0019][Parent 0017][Not Enabled] If Control 'Master Bed Motion-Sensor' is switched On And Control 'Master Bed Motion-Sensor' is not switched Off Then Set 'Bathroom Big Micro Dim' Off Wait 3 seconds Set Scene 'Live - Key H' On Disable Program 'Big Bathroom Sensor 2 Off' Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Seems to work? Master Bedroom Motion Sensor now set for ON only plus Send on every time motion is sensed checked. I added to turn on a NOT used Keypadlinc Key, the H key. I can get a visual that the program got to that line of code and wasn't a commuicastion error. If any of you see anything wrong or think I should make changes, please let me know. Thanks for all the responses all day. Rob update: should have added that the Big Bathroom light and Big Bathroom sensor are linked via a scene, the scene takes care of turning on the Big Bathroom light, not any program. The programs are only to control turning off the Big Bathroom light.

Fast question: Is tapping the button on the back (sometimes referred to as set button) of the motion sensor the same as sending an on command. And if I set the motion sensor to ON only then shouldn't tapping on the back button only send ON commands. Basic I am written and testing the program from the livingroom, I just keep the MS near me and to test what I've done fast, I've been just ta[pping the back button instead of waving my hand in front of the sensor. It seems when tapping the button, with it set for ON only, its sending the ON on the first tap (it does turn on light) and tapping a second time is turning OFF the light. It shoulkd only send an ON? Or maybe the ISY is not really able to adjust that setting and maybe I should use the hardware pins. I'll test it out. Rob

That's exactly why I backed off of trying to do something way more complicated. Right now all I'm trying to get working and working good is: Have a bathroom light be turned on with a motion sensor, that was originally done with a 'scene' the 'bathroom light set a responder' and 'motion sensor set as controller. That works perfectly. With a 'Big Bathroom Scene', perfect! Then to fix the issue of what there is a lot of talk and in the manuals, the problem of the light going off even if someone is still in the bathroom but not moving. All I was going to do, was just have the bathroom motion set to do ON command only (its set for that now), the bathroom motion sensor will not be the thing that turns it off. A separate motion sensor (just to test before I purchase more MS, I am using a motion sensor I pulled and unlinked a restored to factory settings from another room). So this second motion sensor would be placed just outside the bathroom, so when you walk out of the bathroom, its motion detected signal would then turn off bathroom light or scene. Since you can't set the motion sensor for OFF only, I can't use a scene with that device and the bathroom light, unless I want it to be just send another on command have it set for 30 seconds and then the OFF would come. In that case no programming is necessary. But of course, that won't work, because if you are walking by this second motion sensor it will turn on the bathroom light when your not going in the bathroom. So now the only option is to use programming. Simple walking.... not running. Bathroom MS turns on and only on the Big Bathroom light. No program necessary (maybe), done by Big Bathroom Scene Then the Second or Outside Bathroom MS when it detects motion turn OFF light or scene. And to stop this second MS from constantly sending ON and OFF commands, I keep the program disabled, until the bathroom light is on. when the bathroom light is on, enable the second MS program, so that it can now actually send the OFF command to the switch (not from the MS but from the 'THEN' in the program) or bathroom light scene. This is done with a program that just checks if the bathroom light is on. If its on enable the program that will actually be turning off the light or scene. Hence I end up with just two very short programs. That's all I'm trying to do. I thought this should be simple but when I think I've got it running ok, something happens and it doesn't work. One minute it works and the next it doesn't. Rob

This seems to be working: Big Bathroom Sensor On - [iD 0016][Parent 0017] If Status 'Bathroom Big Micro Dim' is not Off Then Enable Program 'Big Bathroom Sensor 2 Off' Else Disable Program 'Big Bathroom Sensor 2 Off' AND Big Bathroom Sensor 2 Off - [iD 0019][Parent 0017][Not Enabled] If Control 'Master Bed Motion-Sensor' is switched On Then Set Scene 'Bathroom Big Motion Scene' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Rob

You gotta be kinding me. I asked that a few messages ago. So the line is not necessary because its a motion sensor and I'm not doing much else with it. If it is a regular wall dimmer for example then I would need that control switch is not. Is that what everyone is trying to make me understand? In my case, because I only need to see an on command come back from the motion sensor, I do not need the second 'control motion sensor' is not off? correct? rob

yes yes, got that status doesn't away hold accurate info of true state. It is an easier way to program but doesn't account for changes that happened in between the status getting updated. I'm going to assume that the status is updated by ISY every so often. At regular intervals? I'm trying to read how the status is updated, there really isn't any detail on how that happens. But for our conversation, status is just looking at the last current state, its not able to notify you if a switch has been tapped in either an on position or an off position. If you want to do something to a device you need to know about what was touched, the on position or the off position ( on a switch there are actually two physical micro switches, that how it know if you tapped the on or off but on the motion sensor there is only one physical micro switch, so its a toggle, once on and then once again off) the controller of the device or locally the device. Is this correct?

Big Bathroom Sensor On - [iD 0016][Parent 0017][Not Enabled] If Control 'Bathroom Big-Sensor' is switched On (someone walked in from of motion sensor, it sent a wakeup command), somebody wants something to be done) And Control 'Bathroom Big-Sensor' is not switched Off (because this is a motion sensor its harder to comprehend, but this is to check the motion sensor sent an on command, if its an off command it will proceed to the else, which in this case does nothing or does not turn on anything) Then Set 'Bathroom Big Micro Dim' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Better?

OK, seem to keep misunderstanding this conrol thing. That's obvious. So once again, the difference in using the Status, which is going back to my very first post? Control is a message coming back from the device that a paddle got tapped or the motion sensor picked up movement. Then staus is the current state of the device, it doesn't really listen to the device message of my paddle got tapped? Am I closer? Rob update: Status shows current state, so a device could be on, but if a device is already on and a person taps the paddle on again when the light is already on that would not change the state or status. But something happened, a person tapped the paddle, or a paddle is being held on (maybe to dim). Is that it?

OK, here is simple question: Is there any more videos out there that go over programming the ISY. There are really only 3 basic ISY videos. But there is nothing on programming really. Nothing that goes over when you would want to do Status and when you would use Control. The explaination of using 'not is', etc. I really thing it could help us that need that kind of lectured learning on top of what I'm reading. Maybe showing the result of a program. The video that showed links and crosslinking (which was an Insteon video) that made it real simple to understand how to do the actual linking manually for me. Then I started to think of a way to make the programming easier for the 'averasge Joe'. If anyone has ever used Turbo Tax by Intuit? Originally, when they first put there product out, it was really just the forms and you filled in the data. But today, you can still just fill in the form if you know what you're doing, if you don't (average Joe), you can use the Easy Mode or Called 'Interview Mode. This Interview mode asks you questions and depending on your answers, it brings up other questions and so on and so on until its all done. In my mind, the ISY programming could have an EASY mode for average Joe and keep the way it is now for power users. In the Easy Mode the ISY would then ask you a series of questions. Example: What device do you you wish to control, it list the devices you added, as it does now in the drop down. Then after you pick the device it will ask you what do you wish to do with this device, and have the list of choices for that device example; turn on, turn off, dim and dim at what level. I could go on, but I think you know what I'm trying to convey. And true, maybe you could not perform all of the finite things with the interview process at the beginning, but it should make the programming a little more user friendly. I know and understand what everyone here is saying, that after a time working with the ISY I will not care with any of this. I just would like the ISY to be more marketable to the average Joe. if Universal Devices is not able to sell enough hradware or add-on modules, then they won't be able to grow and stay in business. I truly believe that in the next few years the Home Automation catagory is going to exploded. And right now everyone is jocking for which protocol will be surpreme and what products become the ones were their names at the tips of everyone's mouth. Just like Apple who knows how to bank on word of mouth and keeping themselves at the top of marketing. There is really not much difference between iOS and Android now. I used to be a user of WebOS, which was actually designed by the former Appe team. It was actually the best TRUE multitasking OS (Apple and Android still do not use TRUE mulltitasking, AKA pure UNIX). But because of marketing errors (and that it was on hardware to slow for the OS) it was abandond. But if you used it, you knew it was the best of all of them. I want the ISY not to be lost in this explosion. Ok, went way off topic, sorry guys! Rob

Whoops! Did something really really stupid here. And funny at the same time! The forum software is a little different than most of the forums I use, it has much less options. I did not realize if I don't choose the latest page number I won't see the new messages. Today, scratching my head because I didn't see what I wrote yesterday, I clicked on page 2 at the top and found all of your messages that you've been responding to and I never read until today. Thank you all for responding to me and words of encouragement. And yes, I see that 'Control switch is not on', is to check for a device that might not be on but be at 50% (dimmer or other device that has a option other than ON). Control 'motion sensor' is switched On And Control 'motion-sensor' is not switched Off So the reason for having both lines is to double check that the device is on and any dim level other than off. Could you write it then with just the: Control 'motion sensor' is not switched Off And forget the first control line of: Control 'device' is switched On ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So what I tried last night and works for the most part but I will be adjusting: I set the bathroom motion sensor to do just the ON command, in settings of the Motion sensor options. For now I pulled a motion sensor from the Master Bedroom to use to play around with in figuring everything out. I will either purchase more motion sensors or transfer what I end up doing to the Hallway motion sensor. I wanted to state this because when I post a copy of the program I don't confuse everyone trying to help me when they read Master Bedroom instead of Hallway. I set the master bedroom motion sensor with this program: Big Bathroom Sensor 2 Off - [iD 0019][Parent 0017] If Control 'Master Bed Motion-Sensor' is switched On And Control 'Master Bed Motion-Sensor' is not switched Off Then Set 'Bathroom Big Micro Dim' Fast Off (here is where I turn off the Bathroom light) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') And I had the program for the bathroom motion sensor as follows: Big Bathroom Sensor On - [iD 0016][Parent 0017][Not Enabled] If Control 'Bathroom Big-Sensor' is switched On And Control 'Bathroom Big-Sensor' is not switched Off Then Set 'Bathroom Big Micro Dim' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') It sort of worked but the delay was so big in turning on the bathroom light I felt like there is problem so this morning I realized I don't need this program. I then reset the original Bathroom Scene back up, I had deleted the bathroom scene (that linked the motion sensor to the bathroom light) since there was no need considering it was controlled by the program at the time. So now I have the bathroom micro dimmer link with the motion sensor using the a scene. Its titled 'Big Bathroom Scene' Motion sensor is controller and micro dimmer is responder. Motion sensor is set to 'ON' command only and 'as motion is sensed' is checked, the count down is 30 seconds but according to documentation countdown is not used when ON only is used. So now the lights should turn on almost instantly as they did when I first setup the ISY and all the devices. And with the one program of: Big Bathroom Sensor 2 Off - [iD 0019][Parent 0017] If Control 'Master Bed Motion-Sensor' is switched On And Control 'Master Bed Motion-Sensor' is not switched Off Then Set 'Bathroom Big Micro Dim' Fast Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') This turns off the Bathroom light. It works but there is that delay, so I'm not sure why the delay when using a program compared to being linked? Also, to reduce traffic and constantly sending 'off' commands to the bathroom light, was to keep that program disabled until the bathroom light is turnecd on. Only enable program when bathroom light is on. Does that sound like a smart thing to try? Rob

I think I gave up and threw in the towel! I came up with something else that allows me to get what I want without the stuggle of figuring out how to write the program the way I originally wanted to do. I will just have to spend more money on a few more MS sensors. I really never stated the final objective because I did not want help in writing it, I wanted to attemp writing it myself. Here is what I originally wanted to do: I wanted to solve the very complex and much talked and written about way to get a Motion Sensor to work more accurately when used in an occupancy mode. The main issue that everyone runs into is that it turns off a device if you are not moving but still occupying the same space that originally triggered an ON coommand from the motion sensor. Typical usage, the bathroom. But of course, everyone has had the issue when someone stays longer than the timer setting. The most recommended option was to raise the timer to long enough to take into account any lenght of stay. But if trying to save on electric, that could eat into savings. All of this you all already know. I want to just use the motion sensor in my case; the bathroom, to turn on the bathroom light, but not to worry about that motion sensor to turn it off. I wanted to use the Hallway MS located just outside the bathroom as a trigger to turn off the bathroom light. Even if the bathroom motion sensor has timed out. I live alone, so the Hallway MS would go ON when I walk out of the bathroom. So that trigger of the ON, would in turn send an OFF command o the bathroom light. I was trying to make t complicated, in that I only wanted the Hallway light to trigger an OFF coomand if the bathroom light was ON. But when not using the bathroom at all, it would just turn on the Hallway light as it normally was set to do. So today, the idea came, when I pretty much decided to just buy an additional Motion Sensor, instead of using the Hallway Motion Sensor. There would be two motion sensors used for each bathroom I have, I might get away with one, since they are right next to each other. I did purchase the Open/Close Sensor for doors or windows, but since I don't tend to close the bathroom door because i live alone, that won't work. By using the second motion sensor, with a blinder on it (probably just some sort of collar around the motion sensor) so it would only see dirrectly what is in front. I need to block any of the side angles. I am going to place it just outside the bathroom, using it as a trip wire. If it gets tripped it will shut OFF the bathroom light. I shouldn't need to worry about tripping it OFF when entering the bathroom, because it should send an OFF command as I go into the bathroom, but the motion sensor inside the bathroom should turn it ON. I will program the ISY not to react at the OFF status of the bathroom motion sensor, it will never go off even after the built-in timer of the motion sensor switches to an OFF status, because I'm not allowing the bathroom light to be linked in a scene as one usually does. I will have total control of the timing if I wanted to use timing or not. Now when you walk out of the bathroom the motion sensor located just outside the bathroom, when it sends an ON status I will turn OFF the light. Its two programs with almost nothing inside them. I'm just wonder if its better to use STATUS or CONTROL when looking at the motion sensor stats, which is going to react faste. Here is what I got so far: Big Bathroom Sensor On - [iD 0016][Parent 0017] If Status 'Bathroom Big-Sensor' is On Then Set Scene 'Bathroom Big Motion Scene' Fast On (or should I forget about the scene and turn on the bathroom micro switch directly) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Big Bathroom Sensor 2 Off - [iD 0019][Parent 0017] If Status 'Master Bed Motion-Sensor' is On Then Set Scene 'Bathroom Big Motion Scene' Fast Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') That's it! It should work as long as I manage to get the motion sensor outside the bathroom so that it only has a limited view. I can't have it react to my movement while I'm in the bathroom. I've noticed that sometimes depending on where I'm standing inside thge bathroom, I can trigger the Hallway light on because of the wide coverage that these motion sensors are capable of. OK, I am upset with myself that I am giving up, but I will be having other stuff that I'm planning on doing that will force me to do the tricky stuff. But I'm ashamed already. Rob

Hi, Can someone tell me if there is a typo in wiki? Here is what I am reading: It starts with Program 3, which is using a scene to turn on a light. Then in program 4, is turning off the light directly. Was that intentional, or a typo, was there a reason that they are using the scene in one and not the other? The link below is the wiki page I am rreading, but here is a copy of what is written if you don't want to go to link: 3. Program Main Bath Motion On - Enabled If Control 'Main Bath Motion.1-Sensor' is switched On And Status 'Main Bath Lights' is not OnThen Set Scene 'sMain Bath Lights' OnElse - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') 4. Program Main Bath Motion Timer - Enabled If Status 'Main Bath Motion.1-Sensor' is OffThen Wait 4 minutes Set 'Main Bath Lights' OffElse - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Using_Motion_Sensors_in_Bathrooms Thanks Rob

Hi, i just read this from an old post. It actual might have been you (Lee) that wrote it, but it made sense now. This is the wording that was written: "If a switch is turned on from off, a Status On occurs. If the switch is switched on again while it is already on, there is no status change" If that is what you've been trying to get me to understand, I think I get it now. One thing I realized when trying to explain things to people, if they are not getting it try another way of explaining it, just changing around the phrasing made it make sense now. And your probably saying, but that's what I've said the whole time. But is not what my brain was able to comprehend, but having it said another way for some reason made it 'click'. I also went back to reading the wiki. I started to read 'understanding motion sensors' which is old because it referenced the old motion sensors that were out at the time, the X-10 motion sensors. I had been reading 'using motion sensors in bathrooms', which I printed out to more easily read it. Or in other words, made it easier to read. I am determined to get there, even if I cry along the way. Thank you! Rob PS I hope you don't come back and say 'that is not what you were trying say'

Yes! And maybe have a feature where you can watch what the program does in a virtual screen as you are programming. There are many ways to bring more of a visual type of programming to the ISY. Visual programming doesn't take anything away from what you do now, it just aids those that need it in a viual way. Unless your goal it to keep it out of the hands from people that can't do programming. A very Unix Priest attitdue. I never said to dummy down the actual function. Do you remember the time when the MacIntosh came out, I do, DOS people hated working with the icons and drag and drop. They loved the text editor. They looked down on people that could not figure out what 'ls' or 'grep' meant! Or in the DOS world 'dir' or 'rmdir'. That somehow clicking and saying new folder or draging to the trash can did not accomplish the same thing. Of course, draging a folder to the trash can is the same as typing 'rmdir C:/windows/system32/drivers/temp'. That is what I mean by visual programming they both get done the same thing, one way is not less then other. But the visual way allowed the average Joe accomplish the same thing that the Priest was doing. The priest were very upset by it. They felt threatened! Rob PS I needed to add one more thing: The ISY is sold with a warning, it not for those that are not technical. If one of the objectives it to sell more of this terrific device and get Home Automation into the masses, you are not going to accomplish that by making it only programmable to those with the know how, the priests! On the other hard, it you want to keep the device only for the insiders, then keep selling it with that warning. Rob

Yes, that is for scenes not the programkming of the logic, whether it be linear or event based. Rob

OK, before I finishing reading the full explainations, I have to say something. I have a mild form of dyslixia, so reading these programming instructions are hard for me to follow. In requesting a method of visual programming is a way for someone like me to aid me in the composing of the program. But here is what might help me. When reading these examples, to be able to actual watch a video, not necessairly showing the coding, But to watch what each step is actually doing. I should tell you about myself, it takes me extra time to learn and comprehend certain things, but once I learn it, I will end up being on top. But its taking me a lot of effort going from the linear programming to this event based programming. I have stated that programming wasn't my thing. When you understand something, it easy to forget that someone else can't yet see what you do. I took more classes in Unix, and hated every minute of it. It was designed for and by what they were called back in the day, Unix Priests! Have you ever heard the term? Oberic you wrote: "if the switch is turned ON, to this....if the switch is turned off, do that." The actual line was: If switch is turned On, do this and if switcfh is NOT turned off, do that! switch on and switch not off = the same thing in my world! That is what I wrote, you answered as if it was: if switch is on and if switch is NOT on! Am I mistaken? Rob

OK, here is what I am reading and it really doesn't make sense to me. Here is the part from the wiki reference that gives the examples of the Motion Sensor: 12. Program Main Bath Door Status Change - Enabled If Control 'Main Bath Contact.1' is switched Off And Control 'Main Bath Contact.1' is not switched OnThen Run Program 'Main Bath Door Status Closed' (Then Path)Else Run Program 'Main Bath Door Status Closed' (Else Path) In program 12 they are testing the door status but how are you testing for status when you haved something like: Control 'Main Bath Contact.1' is switched Off And Control 'Main Bath Contact.1' is not switched On What the heck is that providing? Is the switch off and is the switch not on? If the switch is off, why do you need to have that second line of is switch no on? Isn't the switch not on, the same as if swtch is off? Confusing me totally. What am I missing from this? Thank you, Rob

Wow, I had to read both authors very slowly, because at first, itas overwhelming. But as you explained it got easier to understand. I was reading in wiki about the Motion Sensor programming examples. I started to copy each of the examples into my ISY to try and get done what I am trying to do. I did not (and still don't, not just yet) want anyone writing the program for me. I need to learn how to do this on my own. When I run into issues I will be asking for help. Which I am about to just to get past one of the problem's I was having in understanding of what is going on. The specific page that I am reading is: ISY-99i/ISY-26 INSTEON:Using Motion Sensors in Bathroomshttp://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Using_Motion_Sensors_in_Bathrooms It was in those examples where I noticed the use of both 'status and 'control'. It starts off with a basic example of having the ISY take toltal control of the Motion Sensor's actions on devices. There are about 10 examples maybe more and each example after the first adds in a little more complexity of control of the Motion Sensor and the device you what it to control. It pretty much goes over the complete list of options for programming with the ISY of ant device, the MS is just used as an example. But in my case, its exactly what I am trying to write for. As I said, I might have disappointed myself by copying the programming examples, but it is the way Steve and Michael suugested I do. To break the full program down to very small macro programs. Since I still think in logical programming, not event programming, they said to write the full program down in the logical very on paper then break down the program into the individual parts (very small macro programs). Each program testing for the many specific conditions of the full program. I'm going to go off topic here but: I realize that UDI is fast at work developing version 5.0 for the ISY. I'll make a statement that I'm sure most will agree with, the ISY is not designed for average Joe, you do need to know what programming is all about and you need to have some technical background to be able to fully use the ISY. I have some of both, less on the programminbg side. I read that they are changing the GUI in version 5.0. I would like to see some sort of visual programming be implemented for the 'average Joe people' (maybe in reality I am an average Joe). A drag and droip inteface. I also think it there was a 'until' option in the condition area, it would make it easier to program. I know there is a 'wait' optopn, but that is a timed option. With a 'until' option, it would be easier to write a test for for condition because in most cases we are 'waiting until something happens', example: 'wait until button is pressed', 'wait until motion is sensed'. Right now it takes many lines of code to get what one condition could do, until! Am I wrong? Am I wrong for wanting a visual programming GUI? Something that actually looks like a real flow chart. Ok, back to my task at hand. I am trying to get as much copied over and modified to use for my situation before I present it here and ask for further help. So please bear with me while I get back to that, its getting too late to do much more tonight. Thank you again, for the great explainations of my trying to understand 'status' ans 'control', I think I got it, Rob

Hi all, Just reading some programming examples and gotten myself confused as to when to use Status and when to use Control under the Conditions tab. I was attempting to use Status to determine when something was on or off but in the programming explain on WiKi, they used 'Control' instead of Status. Some it made me wonder when do you use Status and when do use Control? Thank you! Rob

Thanks that make perfect sense!

Wow thanks. OK let me get to work and see if I can write what I wanted to do. If I get stuck I will come from help. Rob