Scottmichaelj Posted April 26, 2013 Posted April 26, 2013 So I have been installing new Insteon SwitchLinc Dimmers #2477Ds throughout my home. In my master bedroom for some strange reason it is causing my lights to flicker. Not quickly but maybe once every minute or something. I replaced it with another switch thinking it maybe defective but the issue is still persists. I did a full factory reset on the actual switch, but it didnt help. With the switch removed and then the load/power directly connected the lights work perfectly and dont flicker. One other thing in my tests I do notice that the exhaust fan in my master bathroom (not yet on a Insteon device) causes my TV to flicker the picture using HDMI over Cat5 Baluns and when the switchlinc in the Master Bedroom is dimmed it causes issues on the TV too. I pulled out to look at the connections there and they seem ok. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
Xathros Posted April 26, 2013 Posted April 26, 2013 I have noticed some flicker from a few of my SLDs as well but only when the load is LED bulbs and the flicker seems to coincide with Insteon traffic. In most cases, it's barely noticeable. If I had to guess, I would say that it is the RF section retransmitting traffic that came across the powerline and the transmitter is drawing current to broadcast and the variations are being amplified by the output triacs. As for the TV, sounds like your caat5 HDMI extender is acting as an antenna for any RF interference and the TV is not filtering it out very well. -Xathros
apostolakisl Posted April 26, 2013 Posted April 26, 2013 I have noticed some flicker from a few of my SLDs as well but only when the load is LED bulbs and the flicker seems to coincide with Insteon traffic. In most cases, it's barely noticeable. If I had to guess, I would say that it is the RF section retransmitting traffic that came across the powerline and the transmitter is drawing current to broadcast and the variations are being amplified by the output triacs. As for the TV, sounds like your caat5 HDMI extender is acting as an antenna for any RF interference and the TV is not filtering it out very well. -Xathros Yes, I have the same issue. Started a thread about it a while ago but nothing much came of it. It's only one switch that does it but it is absolutely the result of insteon traffic. I have the same exact led bulbs on other insteon switches and they don't flicker. Not sure if it is the particular version of switch or its location in the house. I am confident it is not the bulb since there are 3 bulbs on the switch and all 3 do it, and those same bulbs elsewhere in the house don't flicker.
Xathros Posted April 26, 2013 Posted April 26, 2013 Seems to be Dualband dimmers with LED bulbs for a load in my case. -Xath
Brian H Posted April 26, 2013 Posted April 26, 2013 Would you happen to know the hardware revision? I saw in a user supplied compilation of Insteon Devices. HW 4.5 changed a choke in the module to reduce flickering with power line signals.
Scottmichaelj Posted April 26, 2013 Author Posted April 26, 2013 My 2477Ds are version 7.05 (newest?) and the lights are incandescences so there shouldnt be an issue. I am beginning to think your right that maybe the RF frequency is causing an issue with the TV but strange that it only happens when dim not at 100% on. What else is strange I am using HDMI over Cat6 in other rooms (in whole house) and havent seen any issues. I looked in the control panel (level 3) for traffic and it doesnt appear to be any when the lights flicker. EDIT: I swapped the 2477D with a 2476D seems the light flicker has stopped but still having issues at dim levels with the TV getting interference.
Scottmichaelj Posted April 26, 2013 Author Posted April 26, 2013 Does anyone have TED installed? TED? Whats a Ted and what does he have to do with Insteon?
LeeG Posted April 26, 2013 Posted April 26, 2013 If you are not familiar with TED you do not have it installed. Related to utility power. It has been known to put information on the powerline that may interfere with Insteon.
Scottmichaelj Posted April 26, 2013 Author Posted April 26, 2013 Google TED 5000 Or you could be helpful and post the link -> http://www.theenergydetective.com/
LeeG Posted April 26, 2013 Posted April 26, 2013 There are several hits when TED 5000 is Googled. I was not pushing business to any one web site.
Scottmichaelj Posted April 28, 2013 Author Posted April 28, 2013 Well I wanted to post back and say I "think" I sorted out my problem. Not 100% perfect but I removed the 2477Ds and replaced them with 2476Ds (old school) this helped with the flickering, which also fixed the TV issue. I think the RF was interfering and the TV box was on the same circuit. Strangely enough there are 2477Ds switches in the master bath which is CLOSER to the TV which doesnt have any effect on the TV. So thats why I think it was specifically had to do with being on the same circuit. Good luck to everyone else having flickering issues.
Scottmichaelj Posted August 25, 2013 Author Posted August 25, 2013 I have noticed some flicker from a few of my SLDs as well but only when the load is LED bulbs and the flicker seems to coincide with Insteon traffic. In most cases, it's barely noticeable. If I had to guess, I would say that it is the RF section retransmitting traffic that came across the powerline and the transmitter is drawing current to broadcast and the variations are being amplified by the output triacs. As for the TV, sounds like your caat5 HDMI extender is acting as an antenna for any RF interference and the TV is not filtering it out very well. -Xathros I thought I solved the TV issue but its still doing it in two rooms. Do you think if I put a filterlinc on the TV balun it would correct this?
Xathros Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 I thought I solved the TV issue but its still doing it in two rooms. Do you think if I put a filterlinc on the TV balun it would correct this? I don't know but it won't hurt anything to try it. -Xathros
ELA Posted August 27, 2013 Posted August 27, 2013 Hello huddadudda, In reading your history it sounds like high frequency noise from the dimmers (AC wave being chopped) is coupling into your TV's HDMI/cat5 Extender signals? (based on your exclusion of Insteon traffic ) Had you confirmed this by manually dimming a suspect dimmer up and down to see that the amount of interference changes with the dim level? I am unclear how you would add a filterlinc to a balun? Did you mean on the balun's(is it an active balun?) power supply? If so then it is worth a try. The Cat5 cables used by the extender can be susceptible to induced or conducted noise (ground loop) from the dimmers. There are a lot of sources for information on the HDMI/cat5 interface that might be helpful to read. Here is one: http://www.keydigital.com/KnowledgeCenter_TwistedPair_CAT5_wp.html Some of the highlights would be shielded cat5 vs non-shielded and t he separation distance between cat5 cables to power cables and over the entire length of the cat5 run ( depending upon how long it is). Best of luck to you
Scottmichaelj Posted August 28, 2013 Author Posted August 28, 2013 Ela, Thanks for the reply. The cat5 over hdmi I am using are by Binary from SnapAV. Its funny you mentioned the Key Digital link as I am using their shielded cat6 which is REALLY expensive stuff and having issues. It has a foil shield around the outside and each twisted pair is shielded as well. I have narrowed it down to the switches that are causing issues and I am trying to resolve. The baluns are powered into the wall at both the transmitter and receiving ends. My thought was possible the HDMI cable was the problem. Not that I believe in Monster cable or the like HDMI but I have tried using various cables without success too. Maybe there is another HDMI that is small and thin but higher shield I just dont have. I have some MIT cables but they are heavy, thick and have caused damage to some of the HDMI connections on my equipment. The space in back of the TV is very limited so not sure how I get a filterlinc even behind it. I have the concave boxes already to better handle the plugs but a filterlinc will be a challenge. It seems to happen in each room with the main load switch with a TV in it. Plus filterlincs stop the outgoing not incoming. I dont own any to test but I may pickup one and see.
ELA Posted August 28, 2013 Posted August 28, 2013 huddadudda, I am not familiar with all the options for cat5->HDMI. You mentioned the cable type. What about the baluns. Do they have options for how the shield is used? Referring to the Key Digital link: Search for "ground" and the statements made there about STP cable and baluns with grounding options. If you have options available to you you might try the different configurations. The idea being that you may have a ground loop and you are attempting to break that loop. Best of luck
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