Programing trouble

[Nikki]

I had a bad Insteon device (again, yes nothing new) it's a keypad linc Dimmer that just stopped working about 3+ months ago (no more led lights etc.) So I disabled the switch in the ISY admin console. Then yesterday after the switch had been inoperable for about three months, all the sudden the switch LEDs came back on and the switch seems to be kinda working again. But when I enabled the switch in the Admin console and clicked on 'write updates to device' a lot went wrong. The program was trying for over 24 hours to write those few updates to the switch. Everything is very slow on the Insteon network and I can barely send any commands. I disconnected the ISY a while ago to stop whatever was going on and then did a 'restore ISY' after that. Of course the bad (or not, I still don't know) keypad linc Dimmer was disabled in the console again with the backup loaded. So I enabled it once again, clicked 'write updates' and now it is doing the same slow whatever it does again. I am not sure if the whole network is messed up and what I can do, but this is not working for me. Please, any help or advice would be helpful! Thank you so much!

 

 

-------

On a side note, many of my Insteon devices break and obviously they are expensive. I can't keep replacing them all the time and Smarthome is one of the worst companies to deal with. They couldn't care less about their customers and support is non-existent. So I am just wondering if I should give up on Insteon all together and get something more reliable and something that doesn't require constant fixes/replacements? Or just go back to the old standard switches? And what are your experiences with Insteon and Smarthome?

I rarely have any issues with my ISY though, that seems to be a solid and reliable product!

Any input would be very much appreciated. I got into this Insteon thing because I bought my brother's house after he passed away and I wanted to keep everything he installed and I bought a lot of additional devices since.

 

Regards,

 

Nikki

[oberkc]

I have experienced few insteon device failures, but I would be lying if I did not admit to being a little nervous about the prospects of this in my future.

 

I can also tell you that one of my older keypads is behaving as you describe...it appears to go completely dead (no LED indicators, no function). I pull the little tab out for a short period (a few minutes), press back in, and the keypad works again. It has been working for a while since last incident, but I wonder if this is early indication of pending failure.

 

But when I enabled the switch in the Admin console and clicked on 'write updates to device' a lot went wrong. The program was trying for over 24 hours to write those few updates to the switch. Everything is very slow on the Insteon network and I can barely send any commands.

 

That type of behaviour makes me intially think communication problems. Have you performed any diagnostics (formal or otherwise) to check for this? Do you ever get an indication when first logging on that the ISY cannot communicate with one or more devices? Have you ever performed a scene test?

 

How many insteon devices do you have? How many are "dual-band". Do you have access points? Are these confirmed on opposite legs of your electrical system? Do they still appear to be working?

 

Have you added any new electronic devices to your house? Where is the PLM plugged in? Next to

(same circuit) computers, UPS, other peripherals?

 

Sorry to throw a bunch of questions, but these are the kinds of things I would be asking myself if I were experiencing the problems you describe.

 

On a side note, many of my Insteon devices break and obviously they are expensive. I can't keep replacing them all the time and Smarthome is one of the worst companies to deal with. They couldn't care less about their customers and support is non-existent. So I am just wondering if I should give up on Insteon all together and get something more reliable and something that doesn't require constant fixes/replacements? Or just go back to the old standard switches? And what are your experiences with Insteon and Smarthome?

 

I can't help with your decision about whether to continue or to abandon insteon. I suppose it would depend on how many devices I had, how many had failed, how much discretionary funds I had, and the value I placed on automation.

 

I can tell you that I have had no problems with smarthome covering warranted items, and most of the time the sales and service reps are quite easy to deal with. Every once-in-a-while, (once in person) I run across a rep that has a bit of an attitude that I find offensive, but I am not sure that this is unique to smarthome.

 

One consideration is the newly-introduced (actually not quite available for general release, I understand) Z-wave support in the ISY-994. If this becomes broadly available to folks like you and me, then this may offer a graceful exit from insteon over to Z-wave. If one is unhappy with insteon, and as insteon devices fail, one could try out a z-wave replacement.

[LeeG]

I have several KeypadLincs that go dark (no LEDs) when there is a very short power interruption, on the order of .5 to 2 seconds. To bring the KeypadLincs back pull the air gap switch for a few minutes and then restore air gap switch to normal position being careful not to push the air gap switch past the surface of the frame as that can cause a factory reset.

 

Rather than using Write Updates to Device, try a Restore Device. A simple device comm problem would have been detected and the ISY would have stopped the Update, leaving the changes queued for another attempt. The Restore Device will put back the links from scratch if that is the issue along with making whatever changes that are queued.

 

Also note that once the ISY has been directed to Write Updates to Device for a specific device any other queued updates for other devices will be done at the same time. Should not have taken 24 hours however. As oberkc is going after there may be comm problems more wide spread that a single device.

 

There should not be a continuous string of device failures. If devices continue to fail I have to suspect the electrical environment. Odd wiring, loose neutral somewhere, could be difficult to get a handle on with the Insteon install done by someone else. No way to know what wiring adjustments were made along the way.

[LeeG]

Nikki

 

Regarding Smarthome, they are the sole supplier so either live with them or pull Insteon. Hard to find a better solution for the price point as I have looked. For reasons other than individual device reliability that Smarthome would not address I have pulled all Insteon out of the main house. Only thing left is what is in a detached garage and two KeypadLincs at the front door that monitor and control the detached garage. That equipment will go as soon as I can find an alternate solution. Either live with them or dump their products. I finally decided to dump their products.

[iostream212]

Folks I have a newer home (built 2007), larger (2500 sq ft) and have no insteon issues. Have I lost a few devices along the way? Yes. Has smart home replaced them? Yes. Has smart home replaced all of them? No. A switch can die. Deal with it. Have you ever upgraded a computer? Cause that's what a modern ha switch is, a mini pc. I can live with buying a replacement if needed, same as I can live with buying a new PC if it dies or gets outdated. So zwave, upb, zigbee, and the like are flawless? I think not. This is an ISY board and not an insteon board. Take it somewhere else.

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[LeeG]

iostream212

 

Since I would bet that a large percentage of the issues posted on this ISY forum are Insteon related, not ISY, are you suggesting those folks should be told to take the issue to the Smarthome forum. You've got to be kidding. That is what happens on the Smarthome forum. Not a good idea to mention ISY over there as they are pushed over here even when the symptom is obviously unrelated to the ISY.

 

Oh by the way, you will find UPB much more reliable than Insteon. The problem is a high premium is paid for that reliability. As I mentioned in my previous post, hard to find a better price point than Insteon. It is not the technology I have an issue with!

[Nikki]

@iostream212 Hmm well that is pretty uncalled for and rude. I am just looking for help, feedback and answers and if I wanted rude answers like that, I wouldn't have tried here. This forum seems to be very friendly and helpful in general. How about if you don't like the topic, don't read it nor reply? Obviously Insteon and ISY go together. Anyway this doesn't really concern you.

 

@Everybody else: Thank you very much for your answers, nice to get some positive feedback. And Lee, I will certainly try the 'restore' part next time. I also did pull the little tab on the switch and waited (anywhere between minutes and days) but it didn't work. So the switch working again after this long a time was very strange.

Oberkc, sorry but I couldn't answer half of those questions without checking on a lot of things first

 

I will record a short video of one of my other Insteon switches to show you what that one does.

 

 

Thank you again!

[LeeG]

When removing power does not restore device function that is generally an indication of a device that is near the end of its life cycle. The only other thing I would try before replacing it when a power cycle does not bring it back to life is the Factory Reset. Must do a Restore Device after that to bring back the link database.

 

Of course there could be wiring issues if this is an n-way device where the wires had to be retasked when the device was initially installed. If the travelers were not retasked correctly the physical On/Off state of another switch location that was originally part of the standard n-way hookup could affect the power this device is receiving. If you are comfortable working around electricity the next time this happens verify that the Black/White Line/Neutral connections actually have 120v power. There have been cases where the travelers were not done correctly and power was lost at a switch based on the On/Off state of another switch.

 

I am still a big fan of Insteon and certainly ISY. I have lots of Insteon devices in the test bed managed by a dedicated ISY that are toys to play with. But enough is enough when it comes to Smarthome. Eventually my test bed will become out dated and then I will have to find something else to keep this old mind active.

[iostream212]

@Nikki, I wasn't responding directly to you. I am still a noob despite several years experience. I am willing to help when and where I can. However, after I read the last post I reacted. You got to understand when you got close to 7000 posts behind your name and are as well respected, as some members are in this community, that some will find it offensive to bring up words such as 'dump'-ing and 'alternate solution' in a pro insteon community.

 

And even @LeeG, do I really care what HA tech you want to go with? No. Of course not! Do what is best for you. My issue is when the constructive becomes deconstructive.

@Nikki, You came here looking for insteon advice and one of the most seasoned members here says I've dumped it. So really who is being unhelpful?

[Nikki]

I am sorry iostream, I am just very frustrated and just didn't know what to do anymore. I am glad for any help I can get, as I am trying to get this installation to work. I guess it is harder if you just 'take over' some setup that you didn't plan or work on from the beginning. I am having a lot of trouble and 'bad luck' = broken devices etc. I didn't mean to be snippy either that just came out and I apologize!

It just isn't fun if you can't even use the setup without having constant issues.

 

Btw. here is a short video of my latest KeypadLinc Dimmer gone bad...

 

http://rpggoddess.com/mymedia/bad_dimmer.wmv

[Brian H]

Is the Keypadlinc very old?

A power reset with the Air Gap switch didn't help?

Wiring is tight and the load is correct? No low voltage lights or CFLs?

The flickering an pulsing LEDs look like its power supply has failed.

[Nikki]

Hi Brian,

 

the dimmer is about one year old and I have the air gap pulled out now, since I don't want that switch to burst into flames (besides it's obviously annoying). So no, it won't help to use the air gap in this case.

The load are three recessed lights, no low voltage.

[iostream212]

@Nikki. No worries. Let me start over and see if I can help: +1 on checking if the device is older. Newer firmware seems much more solid as far as device performance is concerned. Speaking from personal experience my newer devices have been better than older devices. In my setup I have had 2 switches go bad and 2 iolincs go bad. They were replaced and are working well. These 4 replacements are over 7 years. I got the switches replaced under warranty, and the iolincs I just replaced out of pocket. So in my case it has been ~$200 worth of issues spread out over 7 years. But I know others aren't so fortunate. Doing a reset/rewrite is solid first step advise. If that doesn't do it I would expect a switch fault as well. Make sure to turn off power when connecting a new switch, cause I tried it once with the power on and fried it.

[LeeG]

iostream212

 

Well I guess I should apologize for posting information you do not want to read. If you find Smarthome a good company to deal with that is great. I have been dealing with them for many more years than you have and find their business practices so unacceptable that I DUMPED their technology even though I am happy with Insteon itself. If that was not something that should be shared with the Insteon community than we will have to agree to disagree. Come back in 7-8 years and we will see if you are still satisfied. Let’s hope so.

[iostream212]

LeeG

I do not have an issue reading criticism regarding smarthome and insteon. That stuff is all over the place. I have purchased many technologies that have not suited me and I have dumped them as well. I get it. If you want to warn the community about smarthome then great: Start a new thread and list specific concerns to help people make informed decisions about their HA route. It just seems to me such a conversation would be better suited in a general lighting discussion, like over on cocoontech, then discouraging a member here who has a very specific issue. I don't disagree with you. All these technologies have good, bad, and ugly associated with them and it is up to each to decided what level of each they can live with.

[LeeG]

iostream212

 

“and Smarthome is one of the worst companies to deal with. They couldn't care less about their customers and support is non-existent.â€

 

I did not start the discuss in this thread about Smarthome as a company. I added my views on the subject. It is a shame as they were very different back in 2006. One of their representatives called me at home to determine how I would use Insteon. You think that would happen today? I do not require the individual attention UDI pays its customers but I do require a business to respond when they have issues.

 

Perhaps I should have been more tactful and said “I no longer find Smarthome a company responsive to my needs and have removed their equipment that has been installed since Insteon startedâ€. As a user I can accept the situation or reject it. The problem cannot be fixed in my opinion so I did the only thing I could do. I stopped doing business with Smarthome.

[oberkc]

This is an ISY board and not an insteon board. Take it somewhere else.

 

Woa!! That response sure caught me by surprise.

 

In addition to the other responses, I also recall that nikki specifically asked about our thoughts on the subject of whether or not to continue with insteon. I thought we were all simply offering honest response to that question.

 

I actually think it nice that we can be open about such a topic. The openness adds weight and confidence to the responses that are more positive.

[ISYhbsh01]

If LeeG is dumping Insteon we are all in bad shape here...

 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[LeeG]

Thank you hbsh01. Appreciate your comments. I still have my Insteon test bed of devices and an ISY that manages those devices. I have always enjoyed problem analysis and problem solving. Started with main frame hardware maintenance in the 60's, software maintenance when operating systems became the norm and then program development for a few decades. I hope to continue to make some small contribution to Insteon and ISY for years to come. Helps keep an old mind from turning into mush. Just could no longer deal with that company any more.

[Brian H]

You are not alone LeeG.

I have seen many changes since I started using Insteon in late 2005. IMHO not all good for the end user or us Developers Group members.

 

I have enough old Insteon Hardware to keep me going and dread having to mix older Insteon devices with the present modules.

 

I always welcome your findings as you definitely know your Insteon hardware and software.

[Michel Kohanim]

LeeG,

 

I just wanted to add our gratitude for all the help and support you have provided to our community throughout the years. I do very much appreciate it.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Nikki]

Thank you all for your honest and helpful feedback. Lots to consider.

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using Tapatalk 2

[LeeG]

My thanks to the folks that have sent email, PMs and comments on this topic. My experience with the supplier over many years may well be different than others and is certainly no reason to stop using Insteon unless you have similar issues. I like Insteon and would continue to use if I could. I have a very old inventory if Insteon devices going back to when Insteon first started. That presents some unique problems that many will never see. Fortunately those old devices have been very reliable and actually still are in their own old environment. However, now that I need to upgrade some it is necessary to replace almost all of them. Unfortunately the new devices do not match the color of my cover plates and other electrical devices. I cannot stay where I am because of network reliability problems and I cannot move forward (as much as I dislike SwitchLincs versus ICON) because nothing new matches. Combine that with years of other issues not related to Insteon reliability I am moving on.

 

I hope one would not abandon Insteon based on someone else’s experience. You would be doing yourself a disservice. If you have issues the supplier will not address the situation is different. Then either live with it or move on. Complaining about it over and over may lower the frustration for a short time but does nothing to solve the problem. I did not take my action because I thought it would make a difference as I know it will not. I simply took an action that solved by problem.

 

I will be around for awhile. My test bed of Insteon devices is pretty extensive which I use to work on symptoms that are reported. Way too much fun to throw away the test bed. Unfortunately the test bed will age quickly with its usefulness diminishing quickly over time.

 

 

I will still be around for awhile. My test bed of Insteon devices is pretty extensive which I use to work on symtpoms that are reported. Way too much fun to throw away the test bed. Unfortunately the test bed will age quickly with its usefulness diminishing quickly over time.

[apostolakisl]

With zwave and possibly ube on the horizon for ISY users, I think things should be just fine. If you want to move away from Insteon, because of the capabilities of ISY, transitioning to one of these other 2 technologies should not be painful and will be something that can be done gradually.

[MWareman]

With zwave and possibly ube on the horizon for ISY users, I think things should be just fine. If you want to move away from Insteon, because of the capabilities of ISY, transitioning to one of these other 2 technologies should not be painful and will be something that can be done gradually.

 

Ube..... Michel - PLEASE say its so. Especially integrating the power metering capability of the devices. No special hardware needed, just an API on the device.