SynchroLinc communications.

[jrini]

Just received a SynchroLinc (#2423A5). I need to use it in the environment described as item #1 below. Only under the conditions described in test case # 4 does the ISY communicate with the SynchroLinc.

In the first three trials described below the ISY states that; “The following devices could not be added…Cannot determine Insteon Engine.â€

1. SynchroLinc on a separate circuit from PLM approximately 17’ away - through hard wood floor.

2. SynchroLinc on a different separate circuit from PLM approximately 18’ away - no physical barriers in between.

3. Same circuit as PLM approximately 23’ away - through hard wood floor. On same circuit as X-10 switch 4’ away that reliably communicates with ISY and a ToggleLinc Relay 5’ from the SynchroLinc.

4. ISY communicates with SynchroLinc when on same circuit as PLM approximately 15’ from PLM no physical barriers in between.

 

I have also observed that performing a factory reset results in a ping that appears to occur upon plugging the SynchroLinc in an outlet and the double ping seems to occur upon releasing the Set button.

 

Because I live in a rather small house, there is no point in the house more than 15’ away from a dual-band KPL.

So do I need to try a different SynchroLinc or add some kind of relay device or?

[oberkc]

Have you confirmed communications between legs (aka phase coupling) via the method in the user manual of your dual band devices? Do you have an x-10 phase coupler in service?

[jrini]

No specific Phase coupler. I do know that I have 2 dual-band KPLs and 2 dual-band FanLincs on one phase and 3 dual-band KPls, 1 dual-band FanLinc plus the PLM on the other phase. My house is three levels but only 15' by 30'. In the morning I will check which phase the wiring I need the SynchroLinc to be on.

[arw01]

Even though you have the dual band devices (do they happen to be in metal outlet boxes?) An investment in a couple of 2443 access points might be in order. But some level 3 logs with you pressing various insteon switches around the house so we can see the hop counts etc, would be helpful.

Alan

[bsobel]

Even though you have the dual band devices (do they happen to be in metal outlet boxes?) An investment in a couple of 2443 access points might be in order. But some level 3 logs with you pressing various insteon switches around the house so we can see the hop counts etc, would be helpful.

Alan

 

Amen! I've come to believe the purpose of the dual band switches is to allow phase coupling when a switchbox contains runs from different legs (so two side by side switches on different phases couple to each other). The range outside of the wall they are mounted into seems small. I have 3 systems and all use a lot (some may argue too many, but I've never run into that issue yet) of the access points. I think I have one in almost every room in San Diego and certainly every room (and some mounted under the eaves on out buildings) in Mexico.

[oberkc]

Jrini,

 

How do you know on which leg your devices are installed?

 

Also, what other electronic devices are on the same circuit as the PLM?

[jrini]

First the easy questions -- How do you know on which leg your devices are installed?

 

I was originally an electrical engineer. When I bought this house it had three fuses in the fuse box. One fuse protected all of the outlets and fixtures on the second floor. The second fuse protected all of the outlets and fixtures on the first floor, the basement and the yard. The third fuse protected a single GFCI outlet in the Kitchen. I have had the service entrance upgraded. The branch circuit that covers the first floor, the basement and the yard now is protected by a GFCI CB. A new branch circuit services my PC, router and telephone circuits. Another branch circuit, with GFCI outlets, services only my laundry appliances (that is the circuit on which I plan to use the SynchroLinc). The PLM and ISY are on the branch circuit that covers the first floor and basement.

 

Also, what other electronic devices are on the same circuit as the PLM?

The refrigerator (I unplugged it to run the tests referred to in my original post), a transistor radio, several halogen light bulbs, two KPLs, two SwitchLinc Dimmers, and two micro On/Off switches are on the same circuit as the ISY and PLM.

 

I am not sure if the following logs will help. I will provide more logs if it will help.

 

Event Viewer Level 3 Logs for ISY to the X-10 switch and to the ToggleLinc Relay referenced as test case 3 in my original post.

 

Wed 07/31/2013 02:48:27 PM : [ Time] 14:48:27 0(0)

Wed 07/31/2013 02:48:27 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 05 9B B1 0F 12 00

Wed 07/31/2013 02:48:27 PM : [ X10] A7

Wed 07/31/2013 02:48:27 PM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 65 00 06

Wed 07/31/2013 02:48:27 PM : [ X10] A7/On (3)

Wed 07/31/2013 02:48:28 PM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 62 80 06

Wed 07/31/2013 02:48:28 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 05.9B.B1 0F 12 00 06 LTON-F (00)

Wed 07/31/2013 02:48:29 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 05.9B.B1 1F.21.A9 2B 12 00 LTON-F (00)

Wed 07/31/2013 02:48:29 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 05.9B.B1-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Wed 07/31/2013 02:48:29 PM : [ 5 9B B1 1] ST 255

 

 

Wed 07/31/2013 02:51:39 PM : [ Time] 14:51:39 0(0)

Wed 07/31/2013 02:51:39 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 05 9B B1 0F 14 00

Wed 07/31/2013 02:51:39 PM : [ X10] A7

Wed 07/31/2013 02:51:39 PM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 65 00 06

Wed 07/31/2013 02:51:39 PM : [ X10] A7/Off (11)

Wed 07/31/2013 02:51:40 PM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 63 80 06

Wed 07/31/2013 02:51:40 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 05.9B.B1 0F 14 00 06 LTOFF-F(00)

Wed 07/31/2013 02:51:40 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 05.9B.B1 1F.21.A9 2B 14 00 LTOFF-F(00)

Wed 07/31/2013 02:51:40 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 05.9B.B1-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Wed 07/31/2013 02:51:40 PM : [ 5 9B B1 1] ST 0

[arw01]

The hop counts look good at 3. Create a new scene and delete it between 3 devices and a KPL button at level three, that will give a few dozen log entries and lots of hop counts to see if they drop to 0 with some heavier traffic.

 

I'm a little suspect of the GFCI's, I seem to recall from back in the X10 days that some, especially the arc fault circuit breaker type, can have some filtering effect upon them. From your background in EE, what do you say about the old rumors? I suppose if you open a GFCI's test circuit that should completely remove it from the circuit if I recall, no electronics in there on the mains still?

 

I have at least 4 access points, and have added about 3-4 dual band devices and it's been nearly 100%. I caught one light that is cross linc'd with a dual band on the one that doesn't like to respond with an older powerline only not come on last week, but came on with the second push of the controller. So obviously dualband is not a total fix for the communications issues that come up, but I would say in my case, this switch combo is 99.5% so far.

[oberkc]

First the easy questions -- How do you know on which leg your devices are installed?

 

I was originally an electrical engineer. When I bought this house it had three fuses in the fuse box. One fuse protected all of the outlets and fixtures on the second floor. The second fuse protected all of the outlets and fixtures on the first floor, the basement and the yard. The third fuse protected a single GFCI outlet in the Kitchen. I have had the service entrance upgraded. The branch circuit that covers the first floor, the basement and the yard now is protected by a GFCI CB. A new branch circuit services my PC, router and telephone circuits. Another branch circuit, with GFCI outlets, services only my laundry appliances (that is the circuit on which I plan to use the SynchroLinc). The PLM and ISY are on the branch circuit that covers the first floor and basement.

 

I am unsure how you concluded that you have that you have dual band devices on both legs (aka phases) from this description. Furthermore, depending on installation factors (such as metal boxes), I wonder if they are communicating.

 

Did you say that you PLM is also Dual band? If so, did you perform the "phase bridge" test from the manual?

[jrini]

FWIW My oldest Insteon device, the PLM was purchased in November 2012.

 

Because I do not completely understand scenes, I used the following code to produce the Level 3 Event Viewer. Blue addresses are on the First floor/Basement branch circuit. Red addresses are on the second floor branch circuit.

 

Then

Set 'Basement / MeachanicalRoom / MechanicalRoomLight' On

Set '1stFloor / Kitchen / Fan / Kitchen High' On

Set '1stFloor / Kitchen / Light / Kitchen Light' On

Set '1stFloor / BackYardLigh' On

Set '2ndFloor / BathroomDimmer' Fast On

Set '2ndFloor / Bedroom / Fan / BedroomFan' High

Set '2ndFloor / Bedroom / Light / Bed Room Fan Light' Fast On

Set '2ndFloor / StorageRoom / StorageRoomLight / StorageRoomFan-Light' Fast On

 

Else

Set 'Basement / MeachanicalRoom / MechanicalRoomLight' Off

Set '1stFloor / Kitchen / Fan / Kitchen High' Off

Set '1stFloor / Kitchen / Light / Kitchen Light' Off

Set '1stFloor / BackYardLigh' Off

Set '2ndFloor / BathroomDimmer' Fast Off

Set '2ndFloor / Bedroom / Fan / BedroomFan' Off

Set '2ndFloor / Bedroom / Light / Bed Room Fan Light' Fast Off

Set '2ndFloor / StorageRoom / StorageRoomLight / StorageRoomFan-Light' Fast Off

 

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:31 AM : [ Time] 10:14:31 1(0)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:31 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 05 9B B1 0F 11 FF

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:31 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 14 F6 99 0F 11 FF

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:31 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1F DB 21 0F 11 FF]

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:31 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 21 15 D4 0F 12 00 BathRm

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:31 AM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 14 F6 68 1F 11 FF 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 EE BedRmLt]

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:31 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 05.9B.B1 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:31 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 05.9B.B1 1F.21.A9 2B 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:31 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 05.9B.B1-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:32 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 14.F6.99 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:32 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.F6.99 1F.21.A9 2B 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:32 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 14.F6.99-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:32 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1F.DB.21 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:32 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1F.DB.21 1F.21.A9 2B 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:32 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 1F.DB.21-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2]

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:33 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 21.15.D4 0F 12 00 06 LTON-F (00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:33 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 21.15.D4 1F.21.A9 2B 12 00 LTON-F (00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:33 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 21.15.D4-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:33 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 14.F6.68 1F 11 FF 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 EE 06 LTONRR (FF)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:34 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.F6.68 1F.21.A9 2B 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:34 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 14.F6.68-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:34 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 14 F6 68 0F 12 00

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:34 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 14 F5 3A 0F 12 00]

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:34 AM : [ 5 9B B1 1] ST 255

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:34 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 14.F6.68 0F 12 00 06 LTON-F (00) ]

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:34 AM : [ 14 F6 99 1] ST 255

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:34 AM : [ 1F DB 21 1] ST 255]

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:34 AM : [ 21 15 D4 1] ST 255

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:34 AM : [ 14 F6 68 2] ST 255

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:34 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.F6.68 1F.21.A9 2B 12 00 LTON-F (00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:34 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 14.F6.68-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:34 AM : [ 14 F6 68 1] ST 255

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:35 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 14.F5.3A 0F 12 00 06 LTON-F (00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:35 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.F5.3A 1F.21.A9 2B 12 00 LTON-F (00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:35 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 14.F5.3A-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:35 AM : [ 14 F5 3A 1] ST 255]

 

 

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:46 AM : [ Time] 10:14:46 1(0)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:46 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 05 9B B1 0F 13 00

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:46 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 14 F6 99 0F 13 00

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:46 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 05.9B.B1 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:47 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 05.9B.B1 1F.21.A9 2B 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:47 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 05.9B.B1-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:47 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 14.F6.99 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:47 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.F6.99 1F.21.A9 2B 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:47 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 14.F6.99-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:47 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1F DB 21 0F 13 00]

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:47 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 21 15 D4 0F 14 00

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:47 AM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 14 F6 68 1F 11 00 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ED]

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:47 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1F.DB.21 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:48 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1F.DB.21 1F.21.A9 2B 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:48 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 1F.DB.21-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2]

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:48 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 21.15.D4 0F 14 00 06 LTOFF-F(00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:48 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 21.15.D4 1F.21.A9 2B 14 00 LTOFF-F(00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:48 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 21.15.D4-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:48 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 14.F6.68 1F 11 00 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ED 06 LTONRR (00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:49 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.F6.68 1F.21.A9 2B 11 00 LTONRR (00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:49 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 14.F6.68-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:49 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 14 F6 68 0F 14 00

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:49 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 14 F5 3A 0F 14 00]

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:49 AM : [ 5 9B B1 1] ST 0]

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:49 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 14.F6.68 0F 14 00 06 LTOFF-F(00) ]

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:49 AM : [ 14 F6 99 1] ST 0

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:49 AM : [ 1F DB 21 1] ST 0]

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:49 AM : [ 21 15 D4 1] ST 0

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:49 AM : [ 14 F6 68 2] ST 0

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:50 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.F6.68 1F.21.A9 2B 14 00 LTOFF-F(00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:50 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 14.F6.68-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:50 AM : [ 14 F6 68 1] ST 0

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:50 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 14.F5.3A 0F 14 00 06 LTOFF-F(00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:50 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 14.F5.3A 1F.21.A9 2B 14 00 LTOFF-F(00)

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:50 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 14.F5.3A-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 08/01/2013 10:14:50 AM : [ 14 F5 3A 1] ST 0]

[LeeG]

All the devices in the trace have good communication. The SynchroLinc is not Dual Band so it will be affected by the powerline where the other devices may not.

 

Trace the SynchroLinc and post.

[jrini]

Over the past several days, I took the cover off my service entrance panel and verified that the devices color coded in red and blue are in fact on opposite legs of my 220 volt service. I also verified that the PLM is on the branch circuit colored blue. The branch circuit I want to use the SynchroLinc on is on the same leg of the 220 volt service as the PLM. My computer and router are also on that branch circuit. I had tested the circuit, using an X-10 Lamp Module as a proxy, before ordering the SynchroLinc. The ISY had no problem communicating with the X-10 Lamp Module.

 

So I need to do something more. Any suggestions of a next step will be greatly appreciated.

 

Event Viewer Level 3 with device identification.

 

Tue 08/06/2013 02:47:42 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 05.9B.B1 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00) ToggleLinc Relay

Tue 08/06/2013 02:47:42 PM : [std-Group ] 05.9B.B1-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 ToggleLinc Relay

Tue 08/06/2013 02:47:42 PM : [ 5 9B B1 1] DON 0 ToggleLinc Relay

Tue 08/06/2013 02:47:42 PM : [ 1D D9 95 1] ST 255 Dual-Band SwitchLinc Dimmer

Tue 08/06/2013 02:47:42 PM : [ 14 F6 99 1] ST 255 Dual-Band FanLinc

Tue 08/06/2013 02:47:42 PM : [ 1F 11 C7 1] ST 255 Dual-Band KPL

Tue 08/06/2013 02:47:42 PM : [ 14 F6 68 2] ST 255 Dual-Band FanLinc

Tue 08/06/2013 02:47:42 PM : [ 1F DB 39 1] ST 255 Dual-Band MicroModule On/Off

Tue 08/06/2013 02:47:42 PM : [ 5 9B B1 1] ST 255 ToggleLinc Relay

Tue 08/06/2013 02:47:42 PM : [ 14 F5 3A 1] ST 255 Dual-Band FanLinc

Tue 08/06/2013 02:47:43 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 05.9B.B1 1F.21.A9 41 11 01 LTONRR (01) ToggleLinc Relay

Tue 08/06/2013 02:47:43 PM : [std-Cleanup ] 05.9B.B1-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 ToggleLinc Relay

Tue 08/06/2013 02:47:43 PM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored.

[LeeG]

The ToggleLinc has good communication at the time the trace was taken. The SwitchLinc and FanLinc information does not mean anything . They are the results the ISY assumes happened as a result of operating the ToggleLinc rather than what actually happened.

 

Not clear what that trace is meant to show relative to where the SynchroLinc is installed.

 

What does the SynchroLinc event trace show?

 

Is there a pluggable device that can be temporarily moved to the SynchroLinc plug point and an event trace of that device taken.

 

EDIT: The SynchroLinc can be plugged into the PLM plug point to confirm is operates correctly. If it works good there than there are issues with where the SyncroLinc is plugged

[jrini]

The trace in my previous post was because there had been some earlier suggestion that I set up a Scene that included devices on opposite 110 volt legs of the 220 volt service to my house. I did visually verify that all of the responders in the test scene ended up in the appropriate state. Unfortunately all of the devices in that trace are on the two 15 amp branch circuits originally installed during the 1930’s.

The SynchroLinc has to function on a new branch circuit installed in my mechanical room specifically for the laundry appliances. There are two 20 amp branch circuits, on opposite legs of the 220 volt service, which I have tried the SynchroLinc on with no success. I previously (1 to 2 months ago) had an X-10 lamp module working on the branch circuit that I want to use the SynchroLinc on. I was unable to get any X-10 devices to work in the mechanical room on either of the newer 20 amp branch circuits yesterday.

 

I get no Event Viewer Level 3 trace with either the SynchroLinc or the X-10 lamp module plugged into the outlet on the 20 amp branch circuit from which I need to have the SynchroLinc function. However, since I learned that the subject branch circuit is also available in my office area, I have run two more tests. I connected a dual-band MicroModule On/Off and separately the SynchroLinc loaded with a 60 watt light bulb via an X-10 lamp module to the 20 amp branch circuit in my office area. The Event Viewer Level 3 Log follows. I see no reference to the SynchroLinc.

 

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:52 PM : [ Time] 22:03:53 7(0)

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:52 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1F DB 21 0F 11 FF

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:52 PM : [ X10] A16

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:52 PM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 6C 00 06

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:52 PM : [ X10] A16/On (3)

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:53 PM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 62 80 06

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:53 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1F.DB.21 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:53 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1F.DB.21 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF): Duplicate or ACK for a different device

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:53 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1F.DB.21 1F.21.A9 2B 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:53 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1F.DB.21-->ISY/Plamp module Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:53 PM : [ 1F DB 21 1] ST 255

 

 

I then connected the dual-band MicroModule On/Off and the SynchroLinc loaded with a 60 watt light bulb via an X-10 lamp module to the branch circuit that the ISY and PLM are connected to. The Event Viewer Level 3 Log follows. The SynchroLinc is at address 18.F8.5F.

 

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:27 PM : [ Time] 22:01:28 7(0)

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:27 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1F DB 21 0F 11 FF

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:27 PM : [ X10] A16

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:27 PM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 6C 00 06

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:27 PM : [ X10] A16/On (3)

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:28 PM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 62 80 06

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:28 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1F.DB.21 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:28 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1F.DB.21 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF): Duplicate or ACK for a different device

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:28 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1F.DB.21 1F.21.A9 2B 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:28 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1F.DB.21-->ISY/Plamp module Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:28 PM : [ 1F DB 21 1] ST 255

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:29 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.F8.5F 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00)

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:29 PM : [std-Group ] 18.F8.5F -->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:29 PM : [ 18 F8 5F 1] DON 0

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:29 PM : [ 18 F8 5F 1] ST 255

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:29 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.F8.5F 1F.21.A9 41 11 01 LTONRR (01)

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:29 PM : [std-Cleanup ] 18.F8.5F -->ISY/Plamp module Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Thu 08/08/2013 10:11:29 PM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored.

 

To actually connect the MicroModule On/Off to either 20 Amp Branch Circuit in the mechanical room will require additional effort which I will begin to work on today.

[LeeG]

What is device 1F.DB.21 in this trace? Is this device on the same circuit where the SynchroLinc traffic is not seen?

 

Since Insteon devices do not repeat X10 messages the issue with the SynchroLinc not turning On in the mechanical room may be X10 communication related. Can the lamp be plugged directly into the SynchroLinc with the lamp mechanical switch operated manually to see if the SynchroLinc itself will communicate independent of X10 traffic.

 

 

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:52 PM : [ Time] 22:03:53 7(0)

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:52 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1F DB 21 0F 11 FF

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:52 PM : [ X10] A16

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:52 PM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 6C 00 06

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:52 PM : [ X10] A16/On (3)

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:53 PM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 62 80 06

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:53 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1F.DB.21 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:53 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1F.DB.21 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF): Duplicate or ACK for a different device

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:53 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1F.DB.21 1F.21.A9 2B 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:53 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1F.DB.21-->ISY/Plamp module Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2

Thu 08/08/2013 10:03:53 PM : [ 1F DB 21 1] ST 255

 

The SynchroLinc has been proven to function correctly in the second trace. Now it is a matter of testing the SynchroLinc independent of X10 as that introduces the quality of X10 message traffic into the mix.

[jrini]

My bad, I mis named it. Insteon 1F.DB.21 is the 2443-222 Micro On/Off.

[LeeG]

Device 1F.DB.21 has good communication in both traces which strongly suggests the X10 traffic used to test the SynchroLinc is the problem. Manually turn the SynchroLinc monitored load on and off and see if the SynchroLinc sends messages. With 1F.DB.21 having good communication there should be no reason the SynchroLinc would not have the same good communication when not dependent on X10 to operate the monitored load.

[jrini]

When I simply unscrew the light bulb or screw it back in I get no Event Viewer Level 3 response. I did a compare between the device links table and the ISY links table. The results were a single “Record Mismatch†message.

[LeeG]

That mismatch is likely the End Of List record which can be ignored. Since the SynchroLinc works when powered from the PLM circuit the links have to be Okay.

 

I have not used X10 in a very long time. Does the X10 module automatically turn On when the bulb is screwed in?

[jrini]

I have kept the X-10 module on the whole time. I have tried unplugging the X-10 module while the light bulb was turned on. I have also tried unscrewing the light bulb. Neither has produced any output Event Viewer Level 3 trace.

 

When I use the "Query Insteon Engine" there is no reply from the SynchroLink.

 

The Electric Utility rep was just here to install a "smart meter". He could not or would not even tell me the manufacturer of the new meter.

 

When power was restored, the ISY could not see the SynchroLink (it is plugged into the 20 amp branch circuit in my office area).

[LeeG]

A Query of the Micro Module works on that circuit but the SynchroLinc Query does not?

[jrini]

I just put the 2443 Micro On/Off and the SynchroLinc on a power strip. I then plugged the power strip into an outlet on the 20 Amp circuit in my office area. I was able to do a compare links for the 2443 Micro On/Off module. I was also able to control the 2443 Micro On/Off module from my Admin Console. I could not communicate with the SynchroLinc from the Admin Console.

 

I then plugged the power strip into an outlet on the 15 amp circuit (the one with the PLM and ISY) in my office area. I was able to do a compare links for the 2443 Micro On/Off module. I was also able to control the 2443 Micro On/Off module from my Admin Console. I was also able to do a compare links for the SynchroLinc and to turn the X-10 module off and on.

 

Event Viewer Level 3 trace with the power strip on the 15 amp branch circuit turned on the X-10 with a 60 watt lamp load.

 

Fri 08/09/2013 12:11:59 PM : [ Time] 12:12:00 0(0)

Fri 08/09/2013 12:11:59 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1F DB 21 0F 11 FF 2443 Micro On/Off

Fri 08/09/2013 12:11:59 PM : [ X10] A16

Fri 08/09/2013 12:11:59 PM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 6C 00 06

Fri 08/09/2013 12:11:59 PM : [ X10] A16/On (3)

Fri 08/09/2013 12:12:00 PM : [X10-RSP ] 02 63 62 80 06

Fri 08/09/2013 12:12:01 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1F.DB.21 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF) 2443 Micro On/Off

Fri 08/09/2013 12:12:01 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 1F.DB.21 1F.21.A9 2B 11 FF LTONRR (FF) 2443 Micro On/Off

Fri 08/09/2013 12:12:01 PM : [std-Direct Ack] 1F.DB.21-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 2443 Micro On/Off

Fri 08/09/2013 12:12:01 PM : [ 1F DB 21 1] ST 255 2443 Micro On/Off

Fri 08/09/2013 12:12:01 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.F8.5F 00.00.01 CB 11 00 LTONRR (00) SynchroLinc

Fri 08/09/2013 12:12:01 PM : [std-Group ] 18.F8.5F-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 SynchroLinc

Fri 08/09/2013 12:12:01 PM : [ 18 F8 5F 1] DON 0 SynchroLinc

Fri 08/09/2013 12:12:01 PM : [ 18 F8 5F 1] ST 255 SynchroLinc

Fri 08/09/2013 12:12:02 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.F8.5F 1F.21.A9 41 11 01 LTONRR (01)

Fri 08/09/2013 12:12:02 PM : [std-Cleanup ] 18.F8.5F-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0 SynchroLinc

Fri 08/09/2013 12:12:02 PM : [iNST-DUP ] Previous message ignored.

 

Since the 2443 Micro On/Off module is described on the SmartHome web site as “… With INSTEON's new dual-band Micro On/Off Module,†as being dual-band, I suspect something is wrong with the SynchroLinc.

[LeeG]

Power strips can have noise suppression built in that degrades Insteon signals. The Micro module may be communicating over RF where the SynchroLinc is not Dual Band requiring it to communicate over the powerline.

 

Seems every test adds a new question rather than eliminating them. If you think the SynchroLinc is defective replace it. It works fine on one circuit and not another which suggests to me a circuit/coupling issue but you own the powerline network so it is your choice.

[jrini]

I own the powerline but I have learned to value the advice of those with more experience than mine. Do you recommend one or more Access Points?

[LeeG]

Absolutely. Even with multiple wired in wall Dual Band devices I consider a pair of Access Points essential. In wall devices do not have the RF range and cannot be moved around to insure good RF coupling of the two phases. It may be possible to couple with a single Access Point if the PLM is a 2413 and located in good location for RF activity. With the investment of an ISY a pair of Access Points is a small investment to insure reliable coupling.

 

What is being used to couple the phases today?