Drexx3 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I have an OutletLinc (relay) and a ToggleLinc Dimmer that have been working fine for about 3 months (my network isn't that old) and all of the sudden this week they stopped communicating. I can manually control them but they are no longer controllable via the ISY. Both devices are on the same breaker. I've tried everything I can think of from resetting the breaker, the air gap, factory reset, etc. nothing works. Before the reset I removed them from my ISY and of course since they aren't communicating i can't add them back. The most recent change was swapping a ToggleLinc relay that was crapping out about every three days. That device would not function via the network nor able to be manually controlled. I had a spare waiting to be installed for another project and it has been working just fine. I am going to RMA the defective switch. That was in the same panel but different breaker. I'm puzzled as to why it stopped communicating. I do recall back in May when I first installed the dimmer it was not communicating on the network and I figured I'd have to put a dual band device somewhere on that circuit. After doing additional work I remember trying it again to link it via the ISY and it worked(!). So I figured I must have installed a dual band device somewhere else on that same circuit making it all work now. Makes me think the problem could even be somewhere else. Going to try troubleshooting it tomorrow but if anyone has any guidance or suggestions it would be much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Hi Drexx3, Are these the only devices with which you have problems? Would you please airgap (take the set button out) on the device you just added and see if things improve? Also, do you have any baby monitors or INSTEON thermostats? With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drexx3 Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 Hi Michel, No combination of resetting made a difference. I did install an unuse dual-band keypad intended for another project in place of the dimmer and everything worked as expected. I need a dimmer in that spot so I ordered a new dual-band dimmer SwitchLinc and that should solve the problem. I am completely puzzled as to how it worked before. Thanks, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Hi Doug, Quite strange. Please do keep us posted. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drexx3 Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 I definitely will. How’s this for strange… OK, so this morning I walk into the kitchen and the under-cabinet lights are on. I asked my wife how she turned them on (the OutletLinc was added back to the ISY after I hooked up the dual band keypad for testing. I put the old dimmer back in place until the new dual band one arrives.) She said she just used it as normal. I told her it wasn't supposed to be working. Since it was, I decided to try adding the dimmer back to the ISY and it worked!?!?!? I little more background on the setup as my first email was a little light. On a wall shared between my kitchen and the breakfast nook is a dual-gang box. In that box are a 6-key dual-band keypad, and the dimmer in question. The keypad is a secondary in a 3-way circuit and shares no wires with the dimmer. A few feet away is an in-wall mounted iPad, plugged into the OutletLinc in this issue. The iPad is plugged into the always on receptacle. Plugged into the switched receptacle is a power strip. Plugged into that is the power supply for LED under-cabinet lighting (on the other side of the wall) as well as an old cell phone charger to absorb the sense current that otherwise causes the LEDs to flash when off. Both the nook dimmer and the OutletLinc is part of the appliance circuit for the kitchen (remember, is on the other side of the wall.) The kitchen side has only GFCI and standard receptacles. One GFCI shares a box with a dual-band keypad which is the load side of a 3-way to control the kitchen can lights, but no shared wires as the lights are a separate circuit. I don’t know why the ToggleLinc dimmer and OutletLinc stopped working suddenly. On Saturday, the only way I was able to make it work again was by putting the dual-band keypad in place of the dimmer. I was instantly able to add them to the ISY and control everything as desired. I removed the keypad from the ISY (but left the OutletLinc) and as soon as I went back to using the ToggleLinc dimmer I couldn’t add it to the ISY nor was I able to communicate with the OutletLinc anymore. Today it is suddenly working again, and as mentioned above I was able to add the ToggleLinc dimmer, add it back to the scenes and control it just fine. I’m still going to install the dual-band one I have on order but I don’t understand what the difference is now that makes it work. Here’s grasping at straws…the box mentioned above with the GFCI and 6-key keypad is a very crowded box (really crowded). Seems most of mine are it seems (except where I have a single ToggleLinc) and adding these Insteon switches really uses up a lot of space. Is it possible that when few things are ‘on’ there’s less ‘noise’ on the wiring and a signal could be passed from one wire to another just from being so close to each other? Really makes me nervous if that were the case (I have a few boxes that make me nervous) but I don’t really have any easy options of replacing the box with a larger one (that I know of, it is on a roughly 6†section of wall between the tile back splash and an entry to the kitchen and I don’t think the wall section is deep enough for the ‘old work’ blue boxes available at the hardware stores. I was also thinking that maybe the Insteon dual-band ‘mesh’ finally ‘meshed’ to the point where there was a valid path to the devices (I threw a few breakers in order to do the work on Saturday, including (obviously) the appliance circuit, as well as the kitchen lights, family room, etc (anything that shared any of the boxes I was working in.) Thanks, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Hi Doug, Thanks so very much for the detailed explanation. When it was not working, were any of the following on? 1. CFGI 2. LED My suspicion is that we have signal strength and/or phase coupling issues. The reason is that when you added the dual band KPL, things started working. So, perhaps it was coupling the phases through RF. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drexx3 Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 The GFCI was 'on' in that the receptacle was energized, the LEDs could be on or off, it made no difference. if I tripped the GFCI the LEDs woudl go off. Could the GFCI be filtering the Insteon commands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Hi Drexx3, GFCI is known to cause problems. This said, we really do not know what caused all this behavior. I think you should turn on GFCI and just do a simple scene test on all your scenes within ISY (Right Mouse Click | Diagnostics | Scene Test. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drexx3 Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 I replaced the ToggleLinc dimmer today with a dual-bank SwitchLinc dimmer. Everything worked instantly. We'll see what happens from this point on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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