PSquare Posted October 6, 2013 Posted October 6, 2013 I have 2 on/off (2477S) and 4 dimmers (2477D) those are all in the same circuit but I have another 20 or so around house. My question is those 6 switches just went dead I opened a light and they went out no led lights and paddle doesn't turn on the devices. The braker at the braker box didn't jump. Is this faulty insteon devices or faulty breaker? Thanks.
LeeG Posted October 6, 2013 Posted October 6, 2013 Cycle the breaker. It sounds like the breaker tripped when wires shorted during work on light.
PSquare Posted October 6, 2013 Author Posted October 6, 2013 I did I turned off the braker and turned it back on and the led on the switch are still off and nothing happens when I try to turn on the lights.
Brian H Posted October 6, 2013 Posted October 6, 2013 When you worked on the light. Did any of the wires come out of the wire nuts? So that maybe Line or Neutral power is not actually getting to the dead SwitchLincs? Do you have a meter and can safely use one?
PSquare Posted October 6, 2013 Author Posted October 6, 2013 These were working fine for about 3 weeks. No I made sure that the wires do not stick out. I have a tester not a voltmeter.
oberkc Posted October 6, 2013 Posted October 6, 2013 I am with LeeG. I would be amazed if all six on a single circuit failed. I suspect this is a wiring issue. I would be checking for the proper voltages and neutrals at the various boxes.
PSquare Posted October 7, 2013 Author Posted October 7, 2013 But if the wiring would be faulty wouldn't the breaker have jumped?
LeeG Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Not if a wire is lose under a wire nut! You might consider calling an electrician. This sounds like something an experienced electrician can resolve in a few minutes.
apostolakisl Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Not if a wire is lose under a wire nut! You might consider calling an electrician. This sounds like something an experienced electrician can resolve in a few minutes. What lee is referring to is that the wires are often daisy-chained. If the hot/neutral goes from the breaker box to the first gang box, it may then be spliced to one or more wires that go to the next box, and perhaps it may do the same again. If your wire nut is loose or one of the wires slipped a bit and is not making contact under the nut, and this nut happens to be the first in the daisy chain, then all of the rest of the downstream devices would go out. Pick up a volt meter for a couple bucks and pull any one of the "dead" switches and see if the hot is hot testing both against the neutral and ground wire.
madcodger Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 So, this falls into the "if you need to ask, you don't need to be working on it" end of things. Go call an electrician. Learn a bit more about electricity and wiring, then perhaps get some additional tools, and then perhaps tackle a project or two.
PSquare Posted October 7, 2013 Author Posted October 7, 2013 That section that failed was installed by an electrician.
LeeG Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Correct as needed. Breaker turned Off. Light fixture wiring accessed Breaker turned On. 6 different Insteon devices appear to not have 120v power. The most probable failure point is the wiring at the light fixture. The possibility that 6 different Insteon devices all failed at the same time is so low as to be considered impossible. It is much more likely that a wiring connection/problem was created when the wiring in the light fixture was accessed. A basic check of AC voltage at select points should locate the problem. It is possible that the breaker failed to close since it was mechanically operated but a breaker failure like that is rare.
madcodger Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 That section that failed was installed by an electrician. Agree w/ LeeG that odds of having 6 fail simultaneously is extremely unlikely. Could well be an open connection (no power because wire became disconnected somewhere) and that's my personal guess. The breaker would not trip in that situation, so resetting it would have no effect and the symptoms would be as described (or as I understand your description). Most people on this board are hobbyists who are experienced with home wiring, with a few pros as well. So our advice often involves poking around in our wiring because we're comfortable doing it, and have a fair amount of knowledge that we may take for granted when advising others. If you're not comfortable and knowledgable with wiring, I'd advise you not begin to learn by trying to track down an "open". Call an electrician (perhaps a different one) because you may well have a loose wire.
PSquare Posted October 7, 2013 Author Posted October 7, 2013 I suspected either the braker or a loose wireing as mentioned above but just wanted to know before going into my 6 switches. I'll take a poke at it during the week. Thank you for your insight.
madcodger Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Okay, and good luck. As others suggested, a good multimeter is an inexpensive and helpful investment. A basic wiring book, generally available at home centers, is also very worthwhile. Do be careful.
oberkc Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 I suspected either the braker or a loose wireing as mentioned above but just wanted to know before going into my 6 switches. While "going into" your switches may offer clues, the obvious failure point sounds like the fixture wiring, itself. (This is where you originally "opened" or disturbed the circuit, correct?). Even if you observed no wires having broken free from wire nuts or terminals, this is still the place I would start. I have experienced open connections between two wires visibly connected by wire nut, but not making good connection for some reason. It seems easy enough to open the fixture again and simply tug on each of the wire connections to see if anything comes loose or free. Obviously, such action should be performed carefully, and with the power shut off from that circuit and any other in the box (if more than one circuit). Failing this, were you to post some pictures or detailed description of the wiring in your ceiling box, it may be possible to recommend some further troubleshooting suggestions. Pay special attention to: a) color of each conductor insulation (black? White? Red? Green? Other?) groups of conductors in a cable (one cable with black, red, and white conductor?) c) any markings on conductors (expecially white ones) that appear to be an attempt to identify it as a different color. This can include paint, ink, electrical tape. d) what conductors are connector to what other conductors, or to the fixture, itself.
apostolakisl Posted October 8, 2013 Posted October 8, 2013 It would be best to do this with the power off for reasons aside from accidental shock. If you have an almost connected wire and you start wiggling things, it will arc and pop on/off and the power irregularities can easily fry an insteon switch. Should you ever choose to work with hot wires and Insteon switches, you should at least pull the hard disconnect on the Insteon switch first.
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