Drop Java for admin console?

[rickerdo]

Any chance of dropping Java in favor of something that does not require disabling anti-virus software? I'm thinking more along the lines of something browser based like HTML 5.

 

The web interface of the 994i looks promising. Are any plans in place to add the admin console to that interface as well?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi rickerdo,

 

Anything (including HTML/Websockets) that requires updates from an external device to be pushed will have problems with firewall software.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[rickerdo]

Thanks for responding, Michael, but I made no mention of firewalls. I was asking about using some sort of web based UI for the admin console that does not require disabling anti-virus software.

 

Any hopes of such a thing coming in the future?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi rickerdo,

 

Anti-Virus/Firewalls would have the same problem with any device that gets updates from a LAN device.

 

We do not have any plans of replacing Java since I still do not know what else we could use instead that would behave any better. This is especially given the different Javascript libraries each one of which behave differently on different browsers.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[MWareman]

Within HTML5 there is a new spec that looks promising. Not widely available yet though.

 

Meanwhile, Google seems to have no issues with using Comet (more specifically Ajax with long polling) for this purpose. Why exactly would AV cause issues for this?

 

That solution seems to work on most platforms and AV products.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_(programming)

 

Getting rid of the need for Java on the client is a massive benefit (at least in my humble opinion).

[Michel Kohanim]

Michael,

 

This is an infinite loop discussion which never gets anywhere. Google is Google with certificates and domain names that are well known by all browsers, firewall software, and mobile devices. ISY is not. ISY is a local device with no domain name, no certificate (unless you want to pay for one), and not known by mobile device and browsers.

 

Websockets are still not widely adopted. I can imagine all the hell we have to go through will the permutation of browsers, operating systems, and AJAX/HTML5 libraries on each.

 

As long as there's really NO good reason to retires Java, resources REimplementing the Admin Console on a different platform could be well spent on more important things such as Z-Wave and bi-directional communications with devices.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[rickerdo]

The replies from Universal-Devices never cease to amaze me:

 

"This is an infinite loop discussion which never gets anywhere". It never gets anywhere because of the lame answers you guys give your paying customers as to why this can't be addressed, even though we keep asking for it to be addressed. There is a reason we keep asking!

 

"As long as there's really NO good reason to retires Java".

I think the simple fact that the ISY admin console REQUIRES you to disable anti-virus software is a VERY GOOD reason to retire Java. OR, let me be more specific by saying, perhaps it's just the way the app is written by UD that needs to be addressed?

 

"Anti-Virus/Firewalls would have the same problem with any device that gets updates from a LAN device." - This is 100% wrong. Anti-virus software does not have any bearing on network traffic. Firewalls block network traffic, not anti-virus software. Therefore, if I setup a simple firewall rule to allow traffic between my ISY and my PC, I should not have to disable my anti-virus to allow the admin console to receive status changes of my devices. Am I the only one that sees needing to disable anti-virus for the admin console as an issue?

 

Again, I love my ISY. Even enough to upgrade from a 99i to a 994i. But come on guys, can we fix the basics before adding the latest whiz-bang features? Did I just date myself by using "whiz-bang"?

[Xathros]

rickerdo-

 

I run the admin console with both my AntiVirus and Firewall fully activated with no issues whatsoever. I did have to allow the ISY IP address unrestricted access. After that, no problems. I think part of the problem is that some AV software tries to do more than AV and some firewall programs have such horrid interfaces that even knowledgeable users can't properly configure them.

 

Most often, the suggestion to disable one or the other is for a test to rule out or prove an issue with the users AV/Firewall. Once that is determined, usually a fix can be found. That fix is usually instructions for configuring that specific AV or Firewall to allow the ISY and java console.

 

I don't care much for Java either. It looks and feels clunky at best and is VERY dated. With the recent security problems it's suffered it''s no surprise that AV and firewall vendors are trying to block it.

 

I have seen some slick HTML5 interfaces but none yet that work in realtime with a device like the Java admin console does with the ISY (ie: without the need for polling or manual refreshes). UDI has said many times that websockets is not ready yet and I believe they know best what is required to interface nicely and in real time with the ISY. I do believe that when a better cross platform environment becomes feasible for this device, they will pursue it.

 

-Xathros

[Michel Kohanim]

rickerdo, you seem to be the type who knows all the answers. I have given you my answer and you don't like it. So, as long as I don't give you an answer that you like, everything is lame. Just to close the loop - and as much as I appreciate your love of the product - I would be extremely delighted to give you a refund for your ISY and you can find a better solution with better answers somewhere else.

 

Java is not going anywhere any time soon. Period.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[rickerdo]

Michel,

 

I would like to take you up on your offer for that refund. To be clear, not because the product doesn't work, but rather because of the limitations of the ISY. These limitations have existed for years now. Then, when I vent my [non-sugar coated] frustrations of the product your replies are along the lines of we're more focused on making money than addressing customer concerns, or your answers are just buried behind technical fallacies.

 

So, as I see it, the ISY is limited, not broken, and since Universal-Devices' attitude towards a frustrated customer is to issue a refund rather than address the issue, yes, I would like my money back.

[Michel Kohanim]

rickerdo,

 

Please send your invoice to sales@universal-devices.com with a link to this post.

 

With kind regards,

Michel