Any recommendations on an ELK installer in Atl?

[tandar]

I would like to have a qualified tech install a yet to be purchased ELK system. I can't seem to locate any installers in Atlanta. I've contacted ELK and they gave me a number for the regional distribution rep. I've left a vm asking for installer suggestions but I have not received a response.

Any recommendations from the group?

Thanks

[Teken]

I would like to have a qualified tech install a yet to be purchased ELK system. I can't seem to locate any installers in Atlanta. I've contacted ELK and they gave me a number for the regional distribution rep. I've left a vm asking for installer suggestions but I have not received a response.

Any recommendations from the group?

Thanks

 

If this is replacing an existing system hooking up the ELK won't be very hard at all. Now, if you're starting from scratch and have no home run wiring in the home. This might be a little harder but simply requires more time, patience, and the fortitude to complete the install.

 

If this is out of your depth then for sure hire a professional installer to complete the hard wired portion but realize you better start reading, studying, and understanding all the programming you will have to endure once its all in.

 

Asking the installer to do this on a large complicated install will cost you hundreds of dollars just in programming time.

 

When you could have done it yourself.

 

Teken . . .

[tandar]

Teken,

You got me thinking about a complete DIY. I'd be replacing an existing 20 year old Nutone system. About half the inputs are dead as result of window replacements. But I was going to supplement these area with insteon sensors.

I'm comfortable with the programming and looking forward to it in that sick way that probably drive most on this board.

 

How many wires feed the remote keypad in an M1 gold system?

 

Thanks for the advice

Tandar

[jmed999]

I had the Elk installed my an electrician which was a good friend of mine. I use wireless sensors and studied the system before he came to the house. I just told him what wires to run where. It worked out great and was a minimum cost. We only had to run a few wires to the attic including one to the keypad and one to my router.

[Scottmichaelj]

Teken,

How many wires feed the remote keypad in an M1 gold system?

 

Thanks for the advice

Tandar

 

I just installed an Elk M1 myself and while at first it seemed overwhelming but once you dive in its not hard at all. Then you will know and learn how it interacts with the ISY.

 

The keypads use the standard 4 wire or can be used with cat5 (via 4 wires). Since you already have the current alarm as long as the keypads work then replacing them should be simple as disconnecting and reconnecting the new one. Plus you can use a smartphone or tablet as well to arm and disarm. I put in the simple single gang keypads in my master and garage with just the larger one by the front door since I tend to use other methods (iphones, tablet and universal remote) to arm and disarm mine. The wireless two way elk sensors work great on my windows. Cutting holes for the hardwire voids the warranty on my windowso that wasnt an option for me.

 

 

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[apostolakisl]

Teken,

How many wires feed the remote keypad in an M1 gold system?

 

Thanks for the advice

Tandar

 

I just installed an Elk M1 myself and while at first it seemed overwhelming but once you dive in its not hard at all. Then you will know and learn how it interacts with the ISY.

 

The keypads use the standard 4 wire or can be used with cat5 (via 4 wires). Since you already have the current alarm as long as the keypads work then replacing them should be simple as disconnecting and reconnecting the new one. Plus you can use a smartphone or tablet as well to arm and disarm. I put in the simple single gang keypads in my master and garage with just the larger one by the front door since I tend to use other methods (iphones, tablet and universal remote) to arm and disarm mine. The wireless two way elk sensors work great on my windows. Cutting holes for the hardwire voids the warranty on my windowso that wasnt an option for me.

 

 

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You also need to consider how many keypads. Elk only allows 2 to be connected in parallel. If you run them in series you can run more or less as many as you want. If you only have 4 wires going to each keypad then you can't put them in series, you need 6 minimum. Elk makes an a retrofit adapter for that situation. http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-401- ... rofit.aspx

[tandar]

Thanks guys for the input. You've convinced me that in the long run, I'll get more out of a self install.

I've got two existing 4 wire key pads. As apostolakisl points out, there are many more ways to interface with the system once it's networked.

Regards,

Tandar

[shannong]

I had never installed any physical security systems before like the Elk and found it pretty easy.

 

I would recommend you use actual wireless security sensors from Elk, Honeywell, or GE vs the Insteon. Think about the occasional missed scene action or KPL that doesn't light/turn off. What if that's your door/window sensor not being received when someone is breaking in? You can also get smaller physical sensors from the list of three that are less obtrusive including ones that are hidden like the wired kind. With Honeywell, you'll have a large variety of sensors including water, temp, glass breakage, tip sensor, outside sensors that cab be used on gates, etc. Less so with Elk and GE. Your Elk will be battery backed but not your ISY. So without power, you'll have no security system. Actual security sensors have tamper switches which Insteon does not. Battery life would also be a concern.

 

Good luck!

[tandar]

Are there any issues or benefits with setting up a new M1 w/ XEP module next to my desktop to test connectivity before permanent installation in the basement?

 

 

 

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[shannong]

If you have a Cat5/6 cable to the basement, then there isn't any real worries. If you're using any wireless sensors that talk directly to the M1, that might be a consideration. However, you could remotely mount a wireless transceiver for the sensors upstairs as it's just a 4-wire bus connection.

[apostolakisl]

Are there any issues or benefits with setting up a new M1 w/ XEP module next to my desktop to test connectivity before permanent installation in the basement?

 

 

 

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I suggest taking the other approach. Assuming you have a laptop, take your laptop to your Elk. Although there is no advantage of being next to the Elk while programming it. Unless you are looking for some loose zone wires or something like that and would like to connect/disconnect things and see the result without having to go somewhere. Of course you can get the same sort of result by temporarily connecting a keypad right next to the Elk.

 

Wiring up your elk somewhere else besides its final home means pretty much nothing else is connected to it and you can't do much testing like that.

[tandar]

Thanks folks for the advice. I just received the M1 and plan on starting the switchover on Sunday. Looking forward to the rain here in Atlanta.

 

Everything seems pretty straight forward so far. My wired smoke detectors are 20 years old. I don't even know if they work (I've got plenty of new wireless units). There doesn't appear to be a test switch. One of the last things to do will be to upgrade and install new detectors.

 

The manual shows that a 4 wire smoke detector needs an EOL relay ESL #204A or equiv. Do most wired detectors come with the equivalent relay built in or do I need to purchase this?

 

Thanks again for taking the time to help.

 

 

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[apostolakisl]

Most do not.

 

If you already have 4 wires going to each smoke detector I would continue to use the wires.

 

I used GE smoke detectors which have models with the eol relay built in. It makes life easier. Look at the last page of this manual http://download.homesecuritystore.com/d ... nstall.pdf

 

It tells you the model numbers. You will want the sounder, smoke, and heat for most of your detectors. The final detector in the series needs the eol relay. Units in the attic and garage should be heat only, no smoke. The standard is to use heat only in a furnace room, but that is before they invented sealed combustion chamber furnaces. If yours is a newer sealed model, I would go ahead and use smoke/heat in the furnace room. You probably don't need any with an auxiliary relay.

 

This is the last one in the series.

http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-66-4 ... relay.aspx

 

This is most of your detectors:

http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-61-4 ... under.aspx

 

For heat only, you just need a simple 2 wire heat detector. Heat only don't need power to operate, so they only have the 2 wires that trigger the alarm . . . like a door contact.

 

You will need a reversing relay for your smokes. By reversing polarity, it causes all of the detectors with sounders to sound. To meet code (and actually wake you up and get you out of the house), you will want all of the detectors to sound when any of them trip.

http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-1289 ... odule.aspx

[tandar]

Thanks apostolokis. Much appreciated

The existing system (nutone) has each detector (2) returning back to the panel. One is terminated at a switched smoke aux input and the other at just a aux input

 

Since they don't appear to be wired in series, does this negate the need to install a polarity switcher ?

 

 

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[apostolakisl]

Thanks apostolokis. Much appreciated

The existing system (nutone) has each detector (2) returning back to the panel. One is terminated at a switched smoke aux input and the other at just a aux input

 

Since they don't appear to be wired in series, does this negate the need to install a polarity switcher ?

 

 

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It sounds like you are saying that there are just 2 conductors going from a central location to each detector location? If so, this will not do at all. You won't be able to supervise your detectors even using 2 wire models. You might just go with wireless or else you need to pull new wires. If you have attic above, pulling new wires is easy. Maybe you do a mix where you wire the easy ones and go wireless for the others.

 

In order to supervise the detectors (ensure that the are actually working with no cut/shorted wires) they must run in series with an eol relay and eol resistor. In this way, should any wire get cut or shorted, you will receive a "trouble" condition or "alarm" condition. Either that or you have to put each detector on its own zone, but that presents other issues.

[tandar]

Sorry for the confusion. There are 4 wires. Two power and two go to inputs

 

 

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[apostolakisl]

So you have 4 conductors to each location that are home runned back to a central location?

 

If so, you can use 2 wire detectors and use 2 of the 4 conductors as outbound, and 2 as return wires, which then splice to the outgoing on the next set of conductors, and so on until you have daisy chained all of them.

 

2 wire detectors are specific to the make/model of the security panel, so you will need to be certain you get ones that are compatible with Elk.

[tandar]

All went well with the new install.

Everything is up and running.

 

Thanks to those that encouraged the self install vs the pro route.

 

I can see the Virtual keypad app on my PC but the only missing thing is the ElkRP software. I didn't realize that it takes 2 days for Elk to give me access to their M1 Owners site. I've got an older copy of ElkRP but apparently that version doesn't connect the ElK to windows 8

 

Apos- after untwisting multiple wires in the existing panel, I realized that the existing smoke detectors were wired in a daisy chain. I had only two input wires returning from two detectors They are working now too. I will upgrade to new newer ones soon

 

Thanks again

 

 

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[apostolakisl]

All went well with the new install.

Everything is up and running.

 

Thanks to those that encouraged the self install vs the pro route.

 

I can see the Virtual keypad app on my PC but the only missing thing is the ElkRP software. I didn't realize that it takes 2 days for Elk to give me access to their M1 Owners site. I've got an older copy of ElkRP but apparently that version doesn't connect the ElK to windows 8

 

Apos- after untwisting multiple wires in the existing panel, I realized that the existing smoke detectors were wired in a daisy chain. I had only two input wires returning from two detectors They are working now too. I will upgrade to new newer ones soon

 

Thanks again

 

 

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Here is a link to the elk rp2

 

http://www.4shared.com/file/PrhdVb_D/El ... l2016.html

[tandar]

Thanks for the link.

I called Elk today and they granted me access so I've got the latest version (2.0.20)

From what I gather, version 2.0.16 does not play we'll with windows 8. This was fixed with version 2.0.18

I couldn't connect to the Elk w/ version 2.0.16, but no problem using version 2.0.20

 

 

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[apostolakisl]

Thanks for the link.

I called Elk today and they granted me access so I've got the latest version (2.0.20)

From what I gather, version 2.0.16 does not play we'll with windows 8. This was fixed with version 2.0.18

I couldn't connect to the Elk w/ version 2.0.16, but no problem using version 2.0.20

 

 

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2.0.16 was the most up to date four months ago when I posted that for someone. It is not like elk to have 3 updates in 4 months. They are not a company that changes things very often. Oh well.