Energy Monitoring: Circuits, Plugs, Interface

[ccclapp]

Hi

 

I am newer to ISY but have read and searched for two weeks looking for an energy monitoring (and then control) solution that achieves:

 

1) Panel Monitoring

2) Device (plug) monitoring

3) Beautiful mobile reporting.

 

It seems each exists, but I've not seen how to bring them together, without being the programmer/web designer that I am NOT:

 

I am familiar with Brultech Meters and ISY compatibility. I also know/use both Insteon and Zwave "smart" plugs, which track energy usage. I have seen some lovely web/iOS monitoring sites, such as Powerhouse Dynamics eMonitor and Sitestage https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sitesag ... 20611?mt=8 . However, I am not aware of a way to integrate or alternative pre-integrated solution.

 

Issues:

 

a) Brultech and others (Tedd) don't do device monitoring, only meter/circuit. Thus we start with two independent systems (plugs via ISY and Brultech integrated into ISY). Thus multiple energy feeds inside ISY. That's fine, until the next point..

 

Without being a programmer/web designer, how to take those multiple energy monitoring feeds and combine send them into a beautiful mobile end-user platform

 

c) Does such an end user monitoring a platform/interface exist? Powerhouse Dynamics' offerings are proprietary, only for use with their own hardware/software, which cannot be integrated with ISY or other HA solutions. This one may hold promise and seems to accept independent feeds.. However, I dont believe Brultech is supported. I dont think multiple feeds can be sent, i.e meter/panel AND device/plug:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/bidgely ... 25809?mt=8

http://bidgely.com/demo

 

 

If others have tackled this, or have partial guidance, I would be very interested to learn from your experience.

 

Thanks

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello ccclapp,

 

Please contact MobiLinc. They have an Energy Portal that brings all this together including information from Burltech, charts, etc.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[ccclapp]

Thanks Michel

 

I have MobiLinc with some of the add-ons. I saw the energy feature, but as you suggest, should communicate with them as to whether is achieves the above. I will reach out to them.

 

Take care.

[MaddBomber83]

I would still be interested in other people's input on this beyond the MobiLink solution.

 

We have the Pro Android version with them, but they are mostly focused on iOS development; so things like energy monitoring is not really possible with Android.

 

Also, the power consumption with ISY is not yet mature for Z-Wave.

 

Almost done with our panel installs and looking forward to a monitoring solution that can be integrated into ISY and Android.

[ccclapp]

I would still be interested in other people's input on this beyond the MobiLink solution.

 

Yes, I agree. Not to take anything away from Mobilinc, and being on iOS, I dont share your direct issue. Their App looks quite good. With that said, ...

 

a) Some of the dedicated energy monitoring sites, like those referenced above are/should be far more robust. For someone looking for complex/customizable reporting and/or an interface centered on energy management, that would differ from ML's offering (and using both may well be preferred).

 

If a standalone interface was able to be accessed via webpage, etc, it would be able to be integrated in many/any end-user interface one uses/creates for ISY and/or HA in general.

 

Bottom line: MobiLinc, please continue your support/enhancements to energy monitoring AND others, please tell us what you are doing or are looking for. in 2014 there should be one or more great options for energy monitoring integration with ISY, etc utilizing both circuit panel/meter monitoring and plug/device monitoring, since we can get at the data.

 

Thanks

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Guys,

 

MobiLinc energy portal is NOT the same as their apps. It's an energy management portal with charts/graphs, etc.

 

We have already implemented the power/energy command classes for a few Z-Wave devices and they should be available in 4.1.3.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[ccclapp]

Hi,

 

I've Continuing this discussion on the MobiLinc forum. Here's the address

 

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=11146#p85594

[ccclapp]

I have continued my research into energy monitoring and have some (hopefully) useful information to share, as well as some issues and questions relating to ISY integration:

 

OBJECTIVE: To summarize from above my goal is to find a robust and visually appealing way to monitor/report energy use with ISY integration. I would like to monitor both a) circuits and plugs and prevent double counting of plug data in circuit data.I would like to be able to create ISY triggers from energy data. I would like to keep the expanding Zwave capability of my ISY.

 

MONITORING SITES: I finally found several excellent, robust and attractive monitoring/reporting sites that can receive energy data from various monitoring devices. The two which look most interesting are:

 

SmartEnergyGroup (SEG): http://smartenergygroups.com/

and

OpenEnergyMonitor's monitoring site called emoncms:

http://emoncms.org/

http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/

 

Both are extremely powerful, flexible and highly customizable. Both can received energy feeds from a range of monitoring hardware. Both also sell monitoring hardware, if desired. OpenEnergyMonitor is an open source site with DIY or pre-made Raspberry Pi and/or Arduino based VERY inexpensive monitoring solutions:

http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/guide

http://shop.openenergymonitor.com/home-energy-monitor/

http://shop.openenergymonitor.com/emont ... assembled/

 

Both monitoring/reporting sites offer many reporting "widgets" showing any data desired as graphs, histograms, speedometers, etc, etc, etc. Both allow data calculation so source data can be combined, added, subtracted, reported as Watts, kW, kWh and otherwise configured to your hearts content. Both allow full customization of what data and which widget is placed where.While neither has dedicated smartphone apps, it appears separate reporting views can be created to best serve PC vs tablet vs phone viewing.

 

I found these sites, including a review of many energy sites at this excellent location:

http://shop.openenergymonitor.com/emont ... assembled/

http://lancet.mit.edu/mwall/projects/power/

 

This person also provides free software to use with the Brultech GEM and other devices to facilitate reporting on these and other monitoring sites (not required but may be helpful). Lower on the page in the chronological postings, is additional data about even more monitoring sites, etc.

 

A SPECIFIC SOLUTION: ISY Z series, Brultech GEM and SEG

One ISY user posted a meticulously detailed write-up/walk-through/guide of the above configuration on the Brultech forums here:

http://www.brultech.com/home/community/ ... ?f=2&t=929

Its a very long and informative read. I posted some questions, specific to my goals on the last post on page 7 at the bottom of this page:

http://www.brultech.com/home/community/ ... 9&start=60

 

MY ISSUES:

 

I have one possibly unsolvable problem and one thing I need help figuring out how to do, as follows:

 

1) ISY cannot have BOTH the Zigbee card (required to interface with the Brultech monitors) AND the Zwave card. Zwave is critical to me for locks and many more things in the future as UD increases ZW compatibility. Thus, I cannot have circuit level monitoring if I want Zwave (which I do). This leaves me with the following options:

 

a) try to use two ISYs in a single house, 1 with Zigbee and 1 with Zwave. I do not know if there is a way to create a reasonably integrated ISY based system with two ISYs (WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE CLARIFY: if 2 ISYs, can scenes and/or programs reference devises on the other system, or are they completely impenetrable?

 

hope/wait for UD to produce a dual add-on ISY (Zwave and Zigbee): ANY PROSPECT OF THIS IN THE NEAR TERM?

 

c) hope/wait for UD to add device support Zwave circuit monitors (I'm not sure if there are any that do lots of circuits) : ANY PROSPECT OF THIS IN THE NEAR TERM?

 

d) Use a non-ISY compatible circuit monitor (like the Raspberry Pi solution or even the Brultech solutions (but without ISY integration)) and figure out how to use alerts generated from the monitoring/reporting sites to trigger ISY actions. On this point, I have received replies to posts asking about how to do this on both the SEG and the emoncms forums. In both cases they describe how to interact with their respective API's and provide links to the API requirements. Unfortunately I am not a scripter, so it is hard for me to asses this information. For your convenience leter in this post I am copying their replies so those smarter than I can evaluate them in the context of ISY capabilities/limitations.

 

2) Above was a discussion of how to get circuit monitoring energy triggers into ISY while boxed out of Zigbee capabillity due to having Zwave on my ISY. Now I am addressing the question of how to get plug monitoring energy data (from iSolo Meter etc) out of ISY and up to the monitoring sites so that data can be reported along with my circuit monitoring data. Here it seems fairly clear that this might/should be done via the monitoring site API receiving data from ISY. Here again, my lack of scripting, etc limits my understanding of how to do this, but it should be possible. Maybe there are others here who want to at least see data from some key plugs reported via great, beautiful free monitoring sites. If so, don't be shy to chime in

 

For both #1 (ISY responding to circuit monitoring triggers without Zigbee) and #2, (sending insteon/zwave smart plug data from ISY to monitoring sites) some of all of the answer may be in configuring ISY data to mesh with the API requirements of the monitoring site(s). Below are the replies I received to my posts asking about this on the SEG and emoncms site forums:

 

From tnakeisk at SEG: http://smartenergygroups.com/forums/14- ... ring-Data-

I'm sure anything is possible as long as it can send a API put to SEG. I currently have a ISY and Brultech GEM with Zigbee and DASHbox (serial connected to the GEM), The GEM sends the data to my zigbee ISY via the GEM which also has a Zigbee card. The Dashbox in my setup is the unit that actually sends the data to SEG via an "API".

 

The reason that I stated that anything is possible I also have built a 1 wire bus with DS1820's attached to an Arduino, I route this output from the Arduino to a Raspberry PI and sent it to SEG using the SEG API. See link below.

 

http://smartenergygroups.com/api

 

"Also, assuming this can be done, will I be able to "subtract" that data from the total circuit usage as sent by the GEM, so it is not double counted in my total/curtain usage?" YES

 

From ukmoose at emoncms: http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/node/ ... ment-20432

 

The data formats needed by emoncms are listed in the emoncms.org website (create yourself an account then go to the Inputs page and follow the link to Input APi help ( http://emoncms.org/input/api ) you need an account on the system first.

 

So assuming you know a little bit of scripting you should be able to follow the examples in the Universal Devices API manual, to grab the right data and then reformat it to send on to emoncms.

 

My suggestion would be to work on getting the data out first and then move on to getting the data into emoncms.

 

Alternatively if there is a webservice for the data you want you could look at using node-red http://nodered.org

 

There was a modification posted recently that allowed you to do calculations based on the output of one data stream in another. So yes your subtract data should be possible going forward ( not sure if that mod has made it to emoncms.org yet)

 

Now, because I know nothing about scripting, I just need a smart guy here or at those sites to jump in to this with me...

 

 

For those of you not using Zigbee, who are looking to integrate the ISY and GEM with robust beautiful monitoring/reporting I hope the above links provide the answer. For those of you who don't want only the ISY Z series, GEM solution, who want more economical options and/or who also want plug data, you are in the same boat as I....the answer is close at hand, but not yet fully tangible. Hopefully, together we can make it real.

 

Thanks!

[Xathros]

a) try to use two ISYs in a single house, 1 with Zigbee and 1 with Zwave. I do not know if there is a way to create a reasonably integrated ISY based system with two ISYs (WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE CLARIFY: if 2 ISYs, can scenes and/or programs reference devises on the other system, or are they completely impenetrable?

 

Currently, you can use the network module on one ISY to access the rest interface on a second ISY on the same network or external network if properly configured. This is one way communication only. In the upcoming V5.X firmwares, it has been said that the network module will gain 2 way capability. That in conjunction with the upcoming enhancements to variables should make a multi-ISY installation much more functional. I will be doing some multi_ISY testing in the near future as I just picked up a second 994 and PLM to set up a test bed. Once I have that set up, I will be testing inter ISY functionality using the network module/Rest interfaces.

 

-Xathros

[ccclapp]

Thanks for the feedback Xarthos

 

In thinking about it, if my primary/sole reason to deploy a 2nd ISY is to have Zigbee integration with the GEM, one-way might be fine. I can think of no reason I would need to communicate back to the Zigbee ISY from the primary ISY, as I can't tell my energy circuits to "do" anything. A dedicated Z series ISY becomes a pricey addition to the energy monitoring/control equation, but is worth considering, especially of the other options I listed bear no fruit.

 

As mentioned I know nothing about scripting and have heard of, but not studied the network module/Rest interface. Based on your deeper understanding, are there reasons (besides cost) that a 2nd dedicated Z ISY communicating with a GEM and creating triggers in one direction to the primary ISY would not be perfectly satisfactory? If relying on network/Rest, will my programs become significantly more complex for energy triggered actions (for a non-scripter)?

 

Depending on the above and comparing it to the other options I listed, this may address my "problem #1" above. The other challenge is getting Insteon/zwave smart plug data from ISY to my monitoring site(s) as described above.

 

All steps forward are progress. Thanks for showing a possible path for one!!

[MaddBomber83]

This next update that looks to be ready very soon and being a massive update may provide some items for you.

 

For instance, check out my thread here (viewtopic.php?f=98&t=12835) where I ask about 2 Z Wave Energy Monitors (the clamp whole house style and a plug in module).

 

At the end they mention having the power monitoring outlets in house and testing for a possible release.

 

 

I appreciate all the information you threw together; I'm going to have to visit a few of those sites.

 

Also a note, UD does have plans to get two ISY on the same network for use as ZigBee / ZWave. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=12375 as a quick reference for another question I asked.

[ccclapp]

Thanks for that madbomber

 

The references in those links are encouraging. I have a few comments:

 

1) Yes, hopefully the Aeon lab smart plugs, micro controllers and meter monitoring devices will be supported in the pending Zwave update, or another soon to follow. They also have a less known device: a smart power strip which individually controls and monitors energy from 4 of the 6 separate plugs in the strip, shown at this link...

 

http://www.staples.com/Aeotec-Smart-Str ... uct_279180

 

2) From what I've seen the zwave circuit monitors have only a few CT clamps (only monitor a few circuits) vs. something like the GEM, which monitors 32 circuits, plus temperature probes and, I believe, humidity probes. For many applications the few Zwave clamps in combination with the smart plugs/strips will be a fine solution. Others may want the more robust GEM. Certainly haveing both options supported would be great.

 

3) For all the Zwave and/or Insteon energy sensors, we still have the issue of getting the data from ISY to the monitoring sites, as I described in the long post above. Likely once the Zwave products are supported, others will realize the ease of implementation and will chime in on helping figure out how to get the ISY data into the monitoring site format. The monitoring capabilities of the two sites I referenced above, are truly remarkable...

 

Thanks

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello ccclapp,

 

1) Yes, hopefully the Aeon lab smart plugs, micro controllers and meter monitoring devices will be supported in the pending Zwave update, or another soon to follow. They also have a less known device: a smart power strip which individually controls and monitors energy from 4 of the 6 separate plugs in the strip, shown at this link...

Most should be supported. I know for a fact that their heavy duty 40 amp one is supported because we needed it for another project. The new firmware is pretty dynamic so it should be able to support almost all "command" classes that the device reports. And, specifically, energy meter class. For those that are not supported, please do let us know and we'll do our best to implement as energy management is high no our list of priorities.

 

2) From what I've seen the zwave circuit monitors have only a few CT clamps (only monitor a few circuits) vs. something like the GEM, which monitors 32 circuits, plus temperature probes and, I believe, humidity probes. For many applications the few Zwave clamps in combination with the smart plugs/strips will be a fine solution. Others may want the more robust GEM. Certainly haveing both options supported would be great.

I have rarely seen a Z-Wave device that was specifically made for energy reporting (such as GEM). Most are load controllers or thermostats (such as RCS TZ45) that report energy in addition to the main function as a load controller or thermostat. If the main feature of an ISY is energy monitoring, then I strongly recommend Zigbee/Brultech.

 

3) For all the Zwave and/or Insteon energy sensors, we still have the issue of getting the data from ISY to the monitoring sites, as I described in the long post above. Likely once the Zwave products are supported, others will realize the ease of implementation and will chime in on helping figure out how to get the ISY data into the monitoring site format. The monitoring capabilities of the two sites I referenced above, are truly remarkable...

MobiLinc already has an energy management portal. All it takes is for it to support energy reporting features (device classes) for ISY nodes. Obviously, we do welcome all other solutions.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[MaddBomber83]

So I've read through and looked at a few of these sites.

 

Question, what am I missing with http://www.brultech.com/home/community/ ... ?f=2&t=929

 

He has it connected to the ISY, what piece of information is missing?

[ccclapp]

Question, what am I missing with http://www.brultech.com/home/community/ ... ?f=2&t=929

 

 

He has it connected to the ISY, what piece of information is missing?

 

Two issues:

 

1) full integration with the Brultech requires ISY with Zigbee add-on. At the moment one cannot have both Z-wave and Zigbee on an ISY. My z-wave locks are more important than my having zigbee energy monitoring

 

2) only monitoring of circuit panel, not individual plugs.

[ccclapp]

Hi

 

As discussed above I am trying to:

 

1) Get energy data up to a beautiful, robust and comprehensive monitoring site. I have found two, which can receive 3rd party device feeds, being:

 

a) OpenEnergyMonitor's monitoring site called emoncms:

http://emoncms.org/

SmartEnergyGroup (SEG):

http://smartenergygroups.com/

 

2) I am trying to not only monitor circuits via devices like the GEM, but also monitor/report Insteon and Zwave smart plugs. To date the former is being done via the GEM and a Zigbee enabled ISY (which precludes Zwave on ISY). However no one has yet figured out how to get the smart plug data to these sites.

 

The specific post above at this link describes all of this in more detail: http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=13880#p110596

 

I am working with a Wentworth student to try to solve this, as my scripting etc ability is limited, at best. We have figured out how to get the data INTO the monitoring/reporting sites (via their API), but not how to get the insteon/zwave smart plug data OUT OF THE ISY.

 

If anyone hag general or spacific guidance on how to get this data out of ISY, please point us in the right direction.

 

Is there an ISY API or something that gives these specifics? Neither of us is an ISY wizzard, so small words are best...

 

Thanks!!

[Xathros]

Not knowing for sure, my suggestion would be to look at ISYLogger. It may be capable of logging th energy data from the ISY to an external CSV file.

 

-Xathros

[Xathros]

Otherwise, there is a method of writing to a file on the ISY's webserver using a custom notification addressed to @file or something similar. You could have the ISY dump data via substitution variables to a file.

 

-Xathros

[munroe7]

Hello I am the "wentworth student". So far I have an idea on how to send data to smarter energy groups to be displayed with nice charts and such. The necessary step now is to pull the data from isy to external file. A Csv file would work nicely as long as it can be done. Can anyone confirm that energy data can be extracted to a Csv and if not how else can data be pulled?

[Xathros]

Welcome aboard munroe7

 

It would be more akin to "Pushed" by the ISY rather than pulled from the ISY.

 

See this in the Wiki: http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i_Series_INSTEON:Custom_Email_Substitution_Variables

 

These variables' values CAN be written to a file on the ISY webserver (or emailed) using a custom notification. If you format the write properly, it can be a CSV file. It is up to you to ensure that the custom notification formats the output properly.

 

See also this thread on logging data to CSV files: http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=11753&p=90821&hilit=notification+csv+file#p90821

 

-Xathros

[ccclapp]

As always, thanks Xathros for your always helpful guidance.

 

Munroe7, as Xathros suggested, the IsyLogger man be of help to us. I believe there's a category on this in the forum under third-party solutions and within that automationshack.

 

Thanks

[MaddBomber83]

One issue is getting the information into a variable.

 

ISYLogger pulls variables. As an example, I created about 20 programs that would update the whole house power consumption in 500 watt steps.

 

ISYLogger was able to grab those variables and make it into a nice csv.

 

This is a bit unpractical though as you have to set a program for EACH number. Still looking forward to the Variable Update where you can just set a variable equal to a device's number.

[Xathros]

I was hoping that logger might have access to the substitution mvars listed in the wiki. Looks like it does not. In that case, using a custom notification to write to a file on the webserver may be the solution.

 

 

-Xathros

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MWareman]

Roll on variable substitution in network resources.....

[ccclapp]

Roll on variable substitution in network resources.....

 

Smart guys Will undoubtedly understand you, but I don't