pgovotsos Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 I've been using both a HomeTroller and an ISY for our home automation. I've been using HomeSeer with an ADIO to interface with our alarm panel and other relays. I've finally gotten fed up with HomeSeer and Insteon support (none) and am trying to migrate everything to my ISY and toss HomeSeer. The relay situation is my one worry. The ADIO pretty much instantly reports changes since it's physically wired to the relay and the HomeTroller. Can anyone recommend a relay interface to use with the ISY that would have quick response time?
elvisimprsntr Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Any number of options. http://www.insteon.com/low-voltage-io.html
pgovotsos Posted May 11, 2014 Author Posted May 11, 2014 I know there's lots of options. I'm looking for recommendations and experiences - what's good and bad and why it's an issue.
LeeG Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 The I/O Linc is in use by hundreds of users controlling garage door openers. The I/O Linc is a good device with one relay. I have been using a pair of EZIO2X4's for years controlling doors in a detached garage (2 relays per device).
io_guy Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 I use two IOLincs for my garage and an EZIO8SA. All working great.
elvisimprsntr Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 I have three IOLincs for 1. IP camera with GPIO 2. Leak and high humidity detectors in my attic. 3. Doorbell detector.
pgovotsos Posted May 12, 2014 Author Posted May 12, 2014 Thanks for the suggestions. Can you speak to the response time and reliability? Those are probably the 2 most important features to me for this application.
elvisimprsntr Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 Response and reliability are great, but I tend to not use them where personal safety is concerned, i.e. to control ones garage door. I use my trusted Elk for that. It has nothing to do with the IOLinc itself, but Insteon can have erratic behavior if you have noise on your power. Just search this forum for examples if you don't believe me.
pgovotsos Posted May 12, 2014 Author Posted May 12, 2014 One thing that I can't figure out about the EZIOs and the rest of Smarthomenet's products is if they with just an ISY and PLM. The description sounds like they need a dedicated PLM. Am I missing something or just not understanding? I can't use an Elk like someone suggested - I don't have an Elk. I have a Honeywell alarm with multiple digital outputs. They toggle when zones arm, disarm, or trip. Also when driveway sensor, CO, smoke, LPG, or water sensors trip. The outputs from the DVR toggle when the cameras detect motion. I use these outputs to trigger HA events. It also has inputs that I can toggle on certain HA events. All of the systems communicate - mostly bidirectionally where needed. The HomeTroller has 5 ADIOs connected for a total of 40 I/Os. The HomeTroller is basically the nexus of everything including the ISY (which is the device handling most of the Insteon) but the HomeSeer / ISY is just so fragile. That's why I'm trying to figure out a way to remove HomeSeer altogether and just have the ISY become the nexus with all the IO directly managed by it. Plus I like removing 2 layers of complexity - fewer pathways to break.
Brian H Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 The EZIO8SA uses a separate PLM to interface to the power line. The majority of the Smartenit {Simplehomenet} modules are built into a basic PLM they buy from Smartlabs and use their custom Daughter Card. No external PLM is needed for them to communicate with your ISY System.
pgovotsos Posted May 12, 2014 Author Posted May 12, 2014 Can the EZIO8 and its PLM communicate with the ISY & its PLM? Or is it 2 separate systems?
LeeG Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 The EZIO8SA (with an external PLM because the EZIO8SA daughter card would not fit inside the normal PLM shell) communicates with an ISY/PLM like any other Insteon device.
LeeG Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 pgovotsos FYI - all Insteon devices that are powered from 120v have a PLM internally (battery powered RF only devices are an exception). The PLM is the only chip that communicates the Insteon protocol over the powerline.
johnnyt Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 For only an handful of relays an IOLinc works pretty well except for: 1) the weaknesses of insteon (YMMV) and 2) this issue for me viewtopic.php?f=25&t=10356 that I haven't seen anyone else report that happened again as recently as a few months ago and has not been resolved. I had many issues when using 11 IOLincs for a bunch of HVAC things (here was my now outdated setup viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10174) but I think it's because I needed to query them regularly (due to issue #1) to ensure reliability. An IOLinc query returns two answers: one for the relay and one for the sensor. My network and ISY would get overwhelmed and countless issues arose, including, I believe, this completely unrelated and otherwise unresolved one viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11873 that has not re-occurred since I reduced my IO Lincs to 4. Here's a list of other relevant posts: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5116 viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7768 (that turned out to be partly - but not entirely, IMO, problems related to querying my IOLincs) viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10499 (this one was fixed if you have a 994i, i.e in 4.x) viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11907 At first I tried an EZIO8SA to reduce the IOLincs down to 4 but I do not recommend it. It is poorly documented for a product that's been around so long and has a number of significant bugs that should at least be documented given that Smartenit is not planning to fix them. They include this one viewtopic.php?f=27&t=13528&start=30#p109383 that took me countless hours over 2 months before I learned what the problem was. Read the whole post if you want to know what can happen. There are a number of other qwerks. I plan to update the post soon based on whether or not I get my money back from Smartenit, as they promised I would but haven't done yet about a month after I returned it. My suggestion is to consider this http://digital-loggers.com/din.html (thanks to Xathros for suggesting it to me). It's been rock solid (like the http://digital-loggers.com/lpc.html, which I also own). It does, however, need the network module and you can't query it - at least not yet; I've heard a two way network module is in the works but not sure if/how it would work with this. I keep track of relay status (for program triggers) using variables or X10 devices (I have the X10 module too) to track states.
Xathros Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 I love that digital loggers din relay. Combined with the ISY and network module it is very reliable and quite useful. I use the first 3 relays to cut/re-establish power to my ISY, CAIWebcontrol, RaspberryPi and my Cable modem/Router. Modem and router share a relay, CAI and RPi share another. The remaining 5 relays are controlled by the ISY via state variables as follows: Program: Relay_4_Control If $s.Relay_4 is 1 Then Resource 'DINRELAY: Relay 4 On' Else Resource 'DINRELAY: Relay 4 Off' This allows me to not only control the relay by simply changing the value of s.Relay_4 from 0 to 1 but to also trigger other actions based on the state of the relay. The din relay unit allows you to define the default state of each relay on power up. If you simply set the INIT value for the corresponding state variable accordingly, the ISY and relays can/will stay in sync even through a power failure. ie: If relay 4 is supposed to be on by default, I would set the Init value for s.Relay_4 to 1. In addition, I have the DIN relay ping my ISY , CAI board and the Outside address of my cable modem (Static) every few minutes. If anything doesn't respond, the relay will power cycle the appropriate devices. -Xathros
ccclapp Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 Hi All Would you please clarify something: Am I correct that ISY will only turn on one single contacts at a time with the EZIO8, the EZ-Flora and possibly other multi-relay controllers? I am asking in the context of irrigation and have read references to this in separate discussions about the EZIO8 and EZ-Flora. In my case I want to have more than one irrigation zone on a at time and am hoping to use a single controller with ISY. If I am correct about this limitation (or just because it may be a better product) would you recommend the digital loggers din relay as the best option for controlling multiple irrigation valves via ISY (especially if one wants multiple valves open at once)? Are there shortcomings I would discover vs the EZIO8, the EZ-Flora w ISY and irrigation? One I can think of is that Mobilinc likely cant address the digital loggers din relay directly as it can with the other two. Thanks for your wisdom! Thanks
Xathros Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 While the Digital Loggers DIN relay will certainly allow you to open more than one valve simultaneously, it has no runtime protection to automatically close valves if left open. This is something you will need to consider if you use the DIN relay in place of an EZFlora type device. -Xathros
apostolakisl Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) I know you want actual experience, so I am sorry for saying I don't have that with this device, but it looks interesting to me. http://www.ebay.com/itm/170724913886?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 From me reading, I believe there should be no problem controlling it using ISY's network module. The advantages I see here is that 1) no worries about insteon signaling issues. 2) 16 relays for $145 Not sure about how confirmation of the state of a relay can be relayed back to ISY. This is always a problem with ISY and using Insteon because of Insteon comm failure and then ISY listing the wrong state. It appears the state of a relay is easily confirmed using the apps they provide or writing your own. Perhaps it can be programmed to send a REST command to ISY with relay state changes setting ISY variables. Probably not, but maybe. In my experience using ip comm with the webcontrol board, response time is very fast, "instant" to the naked eye. Insteon comm usually has a lag. Edited August 22, 2014 by apostolakisl
ccclapp Posted August 23, 2014 Posted August 23, 2014 While the Digital Loggers DIN relay will certainly allow you to open more than one valve simultaneously, it has no runtime protection to automatically close valves if left open. This is something you will need to consider if you use the DIN relay in place of an EZFlora type device. -Xathros Hi I ordered Digital Loggers Din to play around with. As to a fail safe to turn off valves, I could have a i/o link or other Insteon controller on the master irrigation valve set to off unless an irrigation program is running (might be smart anyway to ensure no leaking, etc in the system.
ccclapp Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) I love that digital loggers din relay. Combined with the ISY and network module it is very reliable and quite useful. I use the first 3 relays to cut/re-establish power to my ISY, CAIWebcontrol, RaspberryPi and my Cable modem/Router. Modem and router share a relay, CAI and RPi share another. The remaining 5 relays are controlled by the ISY via state variables as follows: Program: Relay_4_Control If $s.Relay_4 is 1 Then Resource 'DINRELAY: Relay 4 On' Else Resource 'DINRELAY: Relay 4 Off' This allows me to not only control the relay by simply changing the value of s.Relay_4 from 0 to 1 but to also trigger other actions based on the state of the relay. The din relay unit allows you to define the default state of each relay on power up. If you simply set the INIT value for the corresponding state variable accordingly, the ISY and relays can/will stay in sync even through a power failure. ie: If relay 4 is supposed to be on by default, I would set the Init value for s.Relay_4 to 1. In addition, I have the DIN relay ping my ISY , CAI board and the Outside address of my cable modem (Static) every few minutes. If anything doesn't respond, the relay will power cycle the appropriate devices. -Xathros Hi Xathros I am trying to set up network resources to control the Din Rlay and the Web Power Switch. To make the topic easier for others to find/stumble upon, I started a new thread here: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/15583-digital-loggers-din-relay-power-switch/ Would you take a quick peak and correct my NR basic setup and tell me what I am doing wrong? I expect its something simple like carriage return or login format. Also, once I get it going, do you mind if I paste your quote above into that thread, again to help others? One clarification about what you say above: Are you receiving "state" data from the Din Relay in ISY, or are you just tracking how many times you turn it on/off via variable 0/1? Thanks alot Xathros http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/15583-digital-loggers-din-relay-power-switch/ Edited March 4, 2015 by ccclapp
Xathros Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 Simply setting a variable at the same time as I send a command to the relay. As far as I know, there is no way to query the relay state. You are welcome to quote me. -Xathros Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ccclapp Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Hi Am I correct the Din Relay only opens/closes the circuit, or can it send a 12V trigger? If the relay cannot send the trigger what would you recommend for that purpose? I'm getting the feeling it doesn't support my intended use (to send 12V to my amp's "suspend" and "surround" triggers.) Thinking further... I suppose I could find a 12v wall wart and open/close its power flow through the din relay?? If so, (i) do I wire as follows: 1 wire from wall wart connects to Din on NC or NO, and then from COM to amp trigger. Other wire from wall wart direct to amp trigger. If this is correct, does it matter if + or - wire goes to Dim? (ii) If the amp wants a 12v trigger, do I get any generic wall wart thats 12V (I will be cutting the ends off anyway). Thanks and sorry for profound dumbness here! Thanks
Xathros Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 You are correct. You can use the same 12V supply that yu power the DinRelay with and simply switch it through one of the relays for the amp. I would use NC and Com and switch the positive side with the relay. I suspect the amp will want a certain polarity but without additional data cant say much more about that. -Xathros
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