Legodeveloper Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Hello, I have had an intermittent problem where all my Insteon devices turn on at once. All switches, dimmers, KPL's, plug in modules come on. The very bad thing is my Garage door opens and the sprinklers turn on. There is nothing in the ISY log and it does not show the correct state of the devices unless I do a query all. No programs were being run at the time. The only item in the log when this happens is the garage door logs that it is open. When I'm not home, I get a notification that my garage door is open too long. When I'm at home, middle of the day, I just see that everything turn on at once. Happens day or night and several days apart. ISY99i/IR Pro V4.22 -OpenADR -Weather Information -ELK M1 gold - have not configured it to control any devices -Portal Integration Mobilinc Internet access is disabled. I have about 100 devices, including KPL's, dimmers, switches, smoke bridge, iMeter Solo and water and motion sensors. I have a few filterlincs on suspected noisy devices and several access point / phase couplers. The isy and all my network devices are powered on UPS. The PLM is direct to a separate outlet. Any suggestions as what this could be or what steps I could take to figure this out? Thanks Link to comment
LeeG Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 There have been some users reporting devices turning On that I think have been resolved by replacing the PLM. Unless it is a finger check the post indicates running a 99i which would have to be at 3.3.10 with an Admin Console at 4.2.2. That opens up all kinds of questions as to the results. Link to comment
NHWA Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I had the exact same problem and I solved it by changing the PLM. It was a bit disturbing to come home to an open garage door . Link to comment
rstotts Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I had the exact same problem too and replaced my PLM. Link to comment
Legodeveloper Posted May 20, 2014 Author Share Posted May 20, 2014 Thanks all for the tip. I replaced my PLM and will monitor. Link to comment
ELA Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Hello NHWA, rstotts , Legodeveloper, Would one of more of you be kind enough to post the (hardware and firmware) revisions of the new PLMs that you have solved your issue with? Since Smarthome does not publish any release notes it may be helpful to others to know what revision they might require to fix their issue. Link to comment
Legodeveloper Posted May 20, 2014 Author Share Posted May 20, 2014 Old: V1.B 1317 New: V1.B 1408 Link to comment
Brian H Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 What firmware version is reported in the Administrative Console in the PLM Info/Status choice in the Tools Tab? Link to comment
jacobs-gc Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I have the exact same problem. I had a PLM die that had been installed for over three years and had worked fine. I changed the PLM and immediately had the ALL ON problem, I switched that one for a new one and it has the same problem, both new PLM's are v9B. I'm on my third PLM in 90 days. I have about one random ALL ON event a week, the problem is getting very serious. I have requested a back level PLM from SmartHome but they have not responded. I would like to see SmartHome acknowledge the problem with a statement that they will fix the v9B firmware and offer a back level option as a work around. Gerry Link to comment
Legodeveloper Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 Both PLM's show v9B in the Administrative Console Link to comment
gviliunas Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 I'm not sure that the problem can be attributed to PLM version 9B more than attributing it to a generic PLM or Insteon architecture issue. I have experienced this problem for more than 4-years across 5 different PLMs, both 2413 and 2412. My occurrences are very rare 1 per 1-2months. Timely motion sensor battery changes and Michel's suggestion to add time delays when programs affect KPL scenes have done the most to reduce the frequency of occurance. I replaced my PLM with a new v9B about 5-6 months ago and I haven't seen a problem (yet) with this PLM. I think I'm very happy with the v9B in my specific case (cross fingers here and pray). I'm not ready to "pin" this on any one version of PLM but am not happy with the overall reliability of that weak (PLM) link. Greg Link to comment
Legodeveloper Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 Since replacing the PLM the problem has not returned so I'm feeling much safer. Given I had to take my motion sensors down to update to the new PLM, I thought it would be smart to replace the batteries at the same time. Looking at my logs, and considering the only time I witnessed the problem, I would say it is more likely the problem was the motion sensors, possibly low battery, and not the PLM. If it is the motion sensor and if it is sending a group 255 command, then I wonder if the PLM can sense those. If they can, then why can they at least log an error on the ISY or if possible, trap it so you can do something about it via program. On a side note, since this was problem was turning on Zone 1 on my sprinklers, and I was not using 8, I moved zone 1 to 8 so I wasn't dumping a ton of water on the lawn. Link to comment
gviliunas Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 After ~2 months, I just experienced yet another ALL ON event. This time was slightly different than previous events. 1. Earlier today I received a Battery Low signal from a v2.20 2420M Motion Sensor. I changed the battery about 2hr before the event and did verify proper operation before placing it back up on the wall. Okay, so it wasn't the MS low battery signal that I ignored for too long.... 2. In previous occurrences, I was comforted by the fact that All ON events never happened when we weren't home. I could always blame someone for switching on the light or tripping the motion sensor at the "wrong" time. Today, we were all at the dinner table. Nobody changed any switches for, at least 15-minutes prior to the event and it was impossible for anyone to trigger a motion sensor. All of a sudden, Poof!, all the lights were ON, all the fans were ON, the fireplace was ON, and my garage compressor was running. I was very worried to see the fireplace and compressor on. This could have cause a serious problem had we'd been out of town.... Given that now I understand that these events can occur without a human trigger, I am worried about leaving some loads in Insteon's now "less than capable" hands when we are out of the house. Hopefully Smarthome is continuing to investigate and we can expect a fix or, at least, some type of defensive action.....soon. I am wondering if I should add a "All ON Indicating" switchlink to my system and have ISY test status every few minutes. I need to test status since ISY doesn't usually know that these events occur since log events showing a cause are absent. If the status of this SL is ever found "ON" then ISY can assume the worst and execute a series of programs to put everything right. Defensive actions such as this suddenly seem prudent in light of random failure and Insteon being used in vacation homes and other buildings not continually occupied. Greg FYI: PLM is a v9B that was installed ~December, 2013. I don't believe that the PLM version is the issue as I have had ALL ON occurrences for several years using various PLMs ISY Error Log.v4.2.2__Mon 2014.05.26 20.43.11.txt Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Hi gviliunas, This is a special PLM firmware and not one sold through SmartHome. If you don't have it, please contact support@universal-devices.com and we'll arrange it for you. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
johnnyt Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Hi gviliunas, This is a special PLM firmware and not one sold through SmartHome. If you don't have it, please contact support@universal-devices.com and we'll arrange it for you. With kind regards, Michel huh? My close to 2 yr old PLMs are v.9B. I keep one as a backup and I've swapped them twice since getting them to spread the load around and (last time) to check that the PLM wasn't causing a problem I was having. Should I be doing something to them? I did have an all on occurrence twice (in ~4 yrs) but both times I had pressed a button (fast on in one case) Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment
Brian H Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 My brand new 2413S. That replaced the one with the flaky power supply {now burning in after repairs}. Is a Hardware 1.B still has firmware 9B. Appears Smartlabs thinks 9B is a real winner. Link to comment
twinch Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 I came home last night from the restaurant to find flood lights on, sprinklers running and interior lights all on. I have been using Insteon for years now and don’t remember this happening before. My only recent change was upgrading ISY from a 99i/IR pro to 994i pro due to a new unsupported KPL had to I replace a week ago. My log shows no errors. The system queried the sprinklers at 8:10 and they were off. At 8:12 (dusk) two programs turn on a lamp and 3 yard light circuits. These are direct commands and do not involve a scene. At 8:15 the system queried the sprinklers again and found them on. There is little doubt that a group 255 on somehow came from the PLM (v9B) at 8:12 or a collision somehow manufactured the message that was recognized as valid by 90% of my 68 devices including KPL buttons that can only be turned on by a scene. The sprinkler pump control has only two links, group 0 and 1, both from the PLM. The only scene it could respond to is group 255 unless maybe group 0 or 1 could have been turned on. I have always taken precautions with 4 of my devices. I poll sprinklers, hot tub heater and pump, and recirculate pump every 5 minutes and have watchdog programs that will turn them each off. If not off then wait 50 minutes and turn off. Running an all-off for the lights once per day when I’m away would correct the rest of the issues in most cases. It still is unsettling to know that either the PLM can transmit the message or the error checking is poor enough that it can a collision caused it. I wonder if this is happening with ISY 99i and with Homeseer plugins? Could ISY 994 be what we all have in common even though it did not log sending the command? Log.txt Link to comment
larryllix Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 This worries me somewhat. I may be away from the house for an extended time next year. If I purchased a spare 2413S PLM, and something went awry, would an electrician neighbour be able to swap it in easily? Is there any ISY process required to do this other than the obvious plug swapping? Link to comment
LeeG Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Each Insteon device has 1 to many link records that have the PLM Insteon address. Changing PLMs requires all devices be updated with the new PLM address. The Wiki describes the process of changing to a new PLM. Link to comment
larryllix Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Each Insteon device has 1 to many link records that have the PLM Insteon address. Changing PLMs requires all devices be updated with the new PLM address. The Wiki describes the process of changing to a new PLM. Thanks! That was I was thinking. It seems the Insteon modules actually only talk to the PLM and not the ISY? I guess I could do this remotely online after the hardware was swapped. Link to comment
LeeG Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 That is exactly right, devices talk to the PLM, never to the ISY directly. Link to comment
larryllix Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 That is exactly right, devices talk to the PLM, never to the ISY directly. I guess I worded it wrong slightly. I meant that the PLM is more than just a modem. It must have some smarts to handle basic protocol handshaking and things. Link to comment
GuyBooth Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I'm having what appears to be a similar problem with "random" events. These occur right after the query takes place at 3:00 am - the setup is fairly complex, but essentially I have an IOLinc that has twice tripped OFF at 3:09 am for no apparent reason. The PLM version is reported as v99. Does this mean I will have to replace it? What are the consequences of not running the Query program at 3:00 am? I have just changed the time to 4:00 am to make sure there is consistency in the timing of the event, but it could be a couple of weeks before I see it again. Link to comment
LeeG Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 If the events are related to an I/O Linc Sensor it sounds like the Trigger Reverse option is being used. Although that option reverses the commands sent as the Sensor turns On and Off it does not reverse the Query results. The 3AM query will change the state of the Sensor when Trigger Reverse is used. The best solution is change the magnetic switch to the NO/NC version so the NO magnetic switch can be used and Trigger Reverse turned Off. Link to comment
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