Apple HomeKit?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello everyone,

 

Thanks so very much for all the feedback!

 

Python - As mwester suggested, Python is only one binding. Node Server WSDK can be implemented in any language. We chose Python based on the a Poll from our user/developer community.

 

Where we want to be - I think it's pretty clear that our focus and goal is Automation, Energy Management, and IoT (to us, IoT means communications with any type of device). Node Server is what is going to get us there. A different hardware platform (instead of RPi) for Node Server is going to be our platform. Polyglot along with other services will be running on it. The rest of the details are sensitive and I cannot divulge at the moment.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[paulbates]

Hello everyone,

 

Thanks so very much for all the feedback!

 

Python - As mwester suggested, Python is only one binding. Node Server WSDK can be implemented in any language. We chose Python based on the a Poll from our user/developer community.

 

Where we want to be - I think it's pretty clear that our focus and goal is Automation, Energy Management, and IoT (to us, IoT means communications with any type of device). Node Server is what is going to get us there. A different hardware platform (instead of RPi) for Node Server is going to be our platform. Polyglot along with other services will be running on it. The rest of the details are sensitive and I cannot divulge at the moment.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Thank you Michel. While I continue to have things to do exploring V5, I also look forward to what's next and you sharing the vision is greatly appreciated.

 

Paul

[Michel Kohanim]

Thank you Paul!

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[larryllix]

Oh! Santa has more tricks in his bag!

[jtara92101]

Wink wink, nudge, nudge, say no more! Say no more!

[stusviews]

What's the difference between having an Amazon-powered Alexa device as an option for front-end control/status of an existing ISY installation, vs an Apple-powered iOS device being able to do the same thing?

 

In neither case is anyone required to purchase/install (nor does the ISY have to be able to directly control) any Alexa or HomeKit wall switch, motion detector, water sensor, etc in order to get any value from the solution.

 

In both cases, it can simply be an option available for ISY owners wanting to control their already-built ISY installation, chock-full of whatever Insteon/X10, Zwave and Zigbee devices (automated by the ISY) that meet their needs.

 

The Amazon Echo is a hands free device. The Echo is out in the open, so it's always available just by speaking. No need to take something out of my pocket nor push any buttons. OTOH, you do need one in each area that you want to use your voice. Yelling is an option

[TheFallenAngel]

The Amazon Echo is a hands free device. The Echo is out in the open, so it's always available just by speaking. No need to take something out of my pocket nor push any buttons. OTOH, you do need one in each area that you want to use your voice. Yelling is an option

Also where Echo or Dot is not available I just lift my wrist and command Alexa on my CoWatch (Dick Tracy style..) Alexa provides way more options and flexibility then Siri..

 

Cheers,

Alex

[jasont]

The Amazon Echo is a hands free device. The Echo is out in the open, so it's always available just by speaking. No need to take something out of my pocket nor push any buttons. OTOH, you do need one in each area that you want to use your voice. Yelling is an option

 

 

Sorry, my post was vague.  I'm familiar with the functional differences between Alexa and HomeKit, I was thinking more along the lines of the differences of constraints.

 

The point was made that HomeKit was constrained to those that use Apple, and since most of the world doesn't, it's not worthwhile to consider for ISY integration.

 

To me, Alexa seems to have the same constraints, plus that of requiring the cloud, which it something that otherwise sends some folks off the deep-end. 

[stusviews]

IMO, that most of the world doesn't use something is not a valid reason to not include integration. For example, most of the world doesn't use Z-Wave, even less so Insteon.

[jtara92101]

Alexa and Homekit don't serve the same purposes. At. All.

 

Alexa interprets your speech and does things when it recognizes key phrases.

 

Homekit is a framework for home automation. Yes, you could use Siri to command Homekit to do something. But an app could also use the framework to interact with your devices. In a home-automatation-frameworky kind of way.

[GuitarBuilder]

Hello everyone,

 

I do very much appreciate all the feedback and input. In short, we have the whole spectrum from doom for UDI all the way up to Apple is horrible.

 

 

We cannot make everyone happy in the same way that neither Apple, nor Google, nor Microsoft, etc. can make everyone happy. As such, we will have to choose our battles and priorities and, currently, our first priority is to continue staying in business and the second is to stay focused on our technology.

 

For those of you who want HomeKit support, may I ask how much more are you willing to pay for an ISY (or some hardware extension thereto) and will you commit to it? Please note that from our initial estimates, we probably need at least $200K to have a robust solution. As such, please let me know if you are willing to start from $500.00 and more.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

Hi Michel,

 

I would buy a HomeKit-compatible ISY to replace mine.  And yes, I'll go with $500.  Keep up the good work!

 

Cheers,

 

GB

[jasont]

Alexa and Homekit don't serve the same purposes. At. All.

 

Alexa interprets your speech and does things when it recognizes key phrases.

 

Homekit is a framework for home automation. Yes, you could use Siri to command Homekit to do something. But an app could also use the framework to interact with your devices. In a home-automatation-frameworky kind of way.

 

 

Yeah, I guess I've liked my ISY so much that I'm trying to shoe-horn it into something that it's not, instead of just replacing it with a different product that better suits my wants (which looks like an inevitablity).

 

For the time being, I'll continue on with the ISY + Homebridge running on the RPi.  That lets everyone at home control the ISY (minus two z-wave lamp modules) via Siri, or the pre-installed iOS 10 functionality  (Home app + Control Center window), or any of the third-party iOS apps we've been playing around with before Apple's native ones came out (namely Elgato's Eve and ConnectSense).  Prefer that for now, instead of investing money into one-trick ponies like Alexa/Echo and Mobilinc (at least how they'd be used in my house).

 

The v1 automation in iOS 10 supports 75% of my home automation workflow.  If v2 adds the rest, I can move my workflow from the ISY over to HomeKit, and replace my ISY with any "works with HomeKit" hub that supports Insteon.  

 

Was hoping to keep the ISY as that hub, but doesn't seem like there's much interest here for that.

[larryllix]

To me, this is all dependent on whether you want independence from the cloud, your router, switches, ISP modem. Also whether you want to do intelligent logic or just extend your remote control.

 

I use logic to average my outdoor temperature sensors and disallow any sensors that are outside of the calculated average by more than 2 degrees. I make decisions about being home based on different time delays from different MS units and many other logic/arithmetic processes.

 

The Hub would never do any of these things. I don't want my home heating based on my complete LAN, router, modem, ISP, Internet backbone and Apple server being functional and room for my stuff to be processed in a reasonable time five years from now, when they decide to charge $20/month.

[asbril]

Larryflix, you are making assumptions about Apple that may become true or not. My personal guess is that Home Automation will take off significantly and become dumb-user friendly within the next 2-3 years.  One or two technologies  (Zwave, Control4, Homekit, Google or one that has not surfaced yet..) will survive, maybe not competing directly but at different sophistication and price levels.  One must be either a genius or foolish to predict the winner(s)  and right now I stick with Zwave and ISY, hoping that if the winner is not Zwave, that winner will at least be bridgeable with Zwave.

[TheFallenAngel]

Larryflix, you are making assumptions about Apple that may become true or not. My personal guess is that Home Automation will take off significantly and become dumb-user friendly within the next 2-3 years. One or two technologies (Zwave, Control4, Homekit, Google or one that has not surfaced yet..) will survive, maybe not competing directly but at different sophistication and price levels. One must be either a genius or foolish to predict the winner(s) and right now I stick with Zwave and ISY, hoping that if the winner is not Zwave, that winner will at least be bridgeable with Zwave.

How on Earth are you comparing protocol for communication (Z-wave) with a framework for HA (HomeKit) with complete home automation systems (products and services which is Control4) with an entire technology company (Google).

 

Rest assured - in such impossible comparative - they will all win

 

Cheers,

Alex

[asbril]

How on Earth are you comparing protocol for communication (Z-wave) with a framework for HA (HomeKit) with complete home automation systems (products and services which is Control4) with an entire technology company (Google).

 

Rest assured - in such impossible comparative - they will all win

 

Cheers,

Alex

Maybe because we live on different planets ?????

 

It is pretty amazing how people get all emotional when someone opines about a technology. For whatever it is worth,  Home Automation is the end-result of devices, protocol, software and services.  That applies to Zwave, Insteon, Control4, Homekit and YES to Google which plans to expand HA on the Nest platform or maybe on a new platform called HOME. 

 

As far as all winning, maybe you are right and time will tell. I believe new players will join HA and others will fade away as old  soldiers. Ten years ago Yahoo was King and before the Ipod and Iphone, Apple was on its way of extinction. Your bet is as good as mine what the future of HA will bring us.

[larryllix]

Maybe because we live on different planets ?????

 

It is pretty amazing how people get all emotional when someone opines about a technology. For whatever it is worth,  Home Automation is the end-result of devices, protocol, software and services.  That applies to Zwave, Insteon, Control4, Homekit and YES to Google which plans to expand HA on the Nest platform or maybe on a new platform called HOME. 

 

As far as all winning, maybe you are right and time will tell. I believe new players will join HA and others will fade away as old  soldiers. Ten years ago Yahoo was King and before the Ipod and Iphone, Apple was on its way of extinction. Your bet is as good as mine what the future of HA will bring us.

Ten years ago? I think you are dating yourself badly there! LOL.

 

Yeah, there is no way to tell but based on what I am seeing, not many want to get into home automation.

 

The younger think everything cloud and app based is cool and they will gravitate towards the cheapest bidder for remote control. Zwave and WeMo etc. Like the Clapper, the novelty wears of quickly when they discover it really doesn't get them much more than walking past the wall switch and giving it a slap.

 

The Home Automation crowd likes to tinker and see things happen automagically and be independent. Nobody controls THEM.

 

Then there is the Nest crowd. I am not sure where they fit in and may exist forever aside from any other stereotype. When they get tired of fighting with all the automatic nonsense the Nest have it may settle down into just a simple remote control to adjust the heat back on the way home. That actually seems useful once per year after vacation.

 

In the end most of the younger, getting older crowd, will have junk boxes full of remote control gadgets that will never be looked at again, and the companies won with our money in their bank accounts.

[asbril]

Ten years ago? I think you are dating yourself badly there! LOL.

 

Yeah, there is no way to tell but based on what I am seeing, not many want to get into home automation.

 

The younger think everything cloud and app based is cool and they will gravitate towards the cheapest bidder for remote control. Zwave and WeMo etc. Like the Clapper, the novelty wears of quickly when they discover it really doesn't get them much more than walking past the wall switch and giving it a slap.

 

The Home Automation crowd likes to tinker and see things happen automagically and be independent. Nobody controls THEM.

 

Then there is the Nest crowd. I am not sure where they fit in and may exist forever aside from any other stereotype. When they get tired of fighting with all the automatic nonsense the Nest have it may settle down into just a simple remote control to adjust the heat back on the way home. That actually seems useful once per year after vacation.

 

In the end most of the younger, getting older crowd, will have junk boxes full of remote control gadgets that will never be looked at again, and the companies won with our money in their bank accounts.

We agree on the uncertainty of what lies ahead.  Compared to many ISY users I am  technically challenged. My understanding does not go beyond adding/removing devices and making programs in the Administrative Console. What I am looking for is for a simple way (within my technically challenged capabilities) to have my ISY ZWave set-up, Nest thermostats, my Sonos consoles, my (soon to buy) Keen smart-vents, my BMW car etc to "talk" to each other. I was just hoping that we do not get a Betamax-VHS or 110V-220V or PAL-SECAM-NTSC situation.....

[paulbates]

 I was just hoping that we do not get a Betamax-VHS or 110V-220V or PAL-SECAM-NTSC situation.....

 

Asbril, that is a great analogy and a very likely outcome over the next few years. There are industry and corporate groups defining new standards as we speak. It will be hard to pick individual products that we like, and look for them all to integrate deeply with each other on any one home automation appliance or solution (ISY, HUB, HomeSeer etc). Each product manufacturer will be attracted to different integration protocols as it best fits their design or even existing relationships and self interests. Each appliance manufacturer will do the same thing.

 

The summary today is, pick one of these two:

1. If you want relative ease of use and a lot of flexibility to pick different products, something like the Insteon Hub or SmartThings and Echo, mixed with a cloud integration service like IFTTT, are better choices. Not a guarantee that all things that are selected will work, but the likelihood is highest here. However, the automation of these solutions will not be as deep as we're used to in the ISY

    

2. If you want deeper programability and integration, ISY or Homeseer are better choices. Both of these solutions count on the user body to create integration code for different products, and not try to create and sell everything as a company. In the case of the ISY, the future of integration is V5 and Nodeservers, which requires an external server. Nodeservers will be considerably provided by the user body of this forum. The ISY and Homeseer are more technical solutions and basic to advanced skills are needed.

    

   The deeper the integration you want, the more technical knowledge and skill is required. Or, as an alternative, seek help from a contractor who can navigate all the related technologies and contract with them to set it up to your requirements and document it for the tasks you want them to do.

As much as we want the flexibility and ease of use of #1 from the companies that represent #2, that's not likely anytime soon. 

 

Paul

[larryllix]

We agree on the uncertainty of what lies ahead. Compared to many ISY users I am technically challenged. My understanding does not go beyond adding/removing devices and making programs in the Administrative Console. What I am looking for is for a simple way (within my technically challenged capabilities) to have my ISY ZWave set-up, Nest thermostats, my Sonos consoles, my (soon to buy) Keen smart-vents, my BMW car etc to "talk" to each other. I was just hoping that we do not get a Betamax-VHS or 110V-220V or PAL-SECAM-NTSC situation.....

Again with the dating yourself!

Betamax vs. VHS wow! I know who won that one.... DVDs!

 

Funny how we still use the term "tape a program"

 

I can see it now.

..."Grandpa! Why do you want to put tape on the TV?"

We are creatures of habit though.

 

You are writing software on ISY using a real-time event based programming language and you are technically challenged?

 

I see many of the older, experienced inline code monkeys struggling with such a futuristic programming language. Pat yourself on the back, asbril!

 

I worked with industrial control systems for many years and I would always get some guy coming in with an old transistor radio that should have been in a museum...

...."You work with electronics. Would you fix this radio for me? It was always my favourite radio." (probably found it in the garbage after a garage sale)

 

I would always reply

...."Do I look like my name is Brian H?"

 

 

Thought you might enjoy that one!

[asbril]

Einstein said everything is relative......  ( Did he really say that.......?).

When I read people on the ISY forum speak about  REST, Open ADR, Boolean Status,  API etc, I have no clue what they are talking about. I don't even understand the concept of variables. I am unable to do software programing, but I can program IF, THEN, ELSE in the Administrative Console.

In my home I am the tech guy because I know the difference between an Ethernet and USB cable, but compared to many ISY users, I am a real novice, or technically challenged. However I love to use technology and gadgets as long as I know how to use them.  As I said ( or was it Einstein ?) everything is relative and I am sure that many people would not know to replace a standard wall switch with a Zwave switch and include it in ISY, and therefore some may not consider me technically challenged, but I'd love to understand more than I do now.

[fitzpatri8]

Variables aren't tough for the ISY, just think of them as 'counters'. You can use them to track how many times or how often something happens, then you can use that information as a trigger or a condition in your programs, or as information that should be conveyed to you via text or email.

[jtara92101]

 I am unable to do software programing, but I can program IF, THEN, ELSE in the Administrative Console

 

 

Then you are doing software programming!  Just in a very minimal programming language.

 

And it actually does have a text representation outside of the admin console. When you backup your ISY, the programs are saved as text, and the files can be read in a text editor, and look like you might expect a programming language to look.

 

I say it quacks like a duck!

[asbril]

Then you are doing software programming!  Just in a very minimal programming language.

 

And it actually does have a text representation outside of the admin console. When you backup your ISY, the programs are saved as text, and the files can be read in a text editor, and look like you might expect a programming language to look.

 

I say it quacks like a duck!

Thanks for making me look smarter than I am.....

[asbril]

Variables aren't tough for the ISY, just think of them as 'counters'. You can use them to track how many times or how often something happens, then you can use that information as a trigger or a condition in your programs, or as information that should be conveyed to you via text or email.

So, if I want to receive a SMS if light device X stays on more than 30 minutes, I can achieve that with a variable ? How would this look like ?