baabm Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 Has anyone sold a home that is currently controlled by a 994i and has numerous insteon switches in it? Just wondering if you left the system in place and tied to explain it to the new owner or if you removed it and took it with you?
arw01 Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 Wonder about that when the time comes, depends a bit on the buyer to me. However, reading about it on other forums it seems about 70% of people take the system with them because it adds no value to the home to 99% of the buyers and could be a negative to a technophob wife. If you think of the grand more more you have in your system, and that you could replace almost all of it with $0.50 switches in a few hours.. When I do my overhead can lights, I have not yet decided if I will do a bank of switches, or just a 8 position keypad. However, whatever can I choose will need to provide access to the insteon controller inside of it, would not want to crawl into the 140 attic in 16" of insulation to be replacing a module!
MWareman Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) Having moved recently, I took my system with me. I didn't want to become tech support for the new homeowner. The system was not going to add Mich to market value according to our market, so I removed all of the Insteon switches prior to listing the property so I didn't have to tell everyone it was not included. Moving again this week - new house is finally finished! Edited July 28, 2014 by MWareman
bipto Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 I agree that Insteon / ISY likely will have a neutral or negative impact on property value, but wow - the thought of rapidly undoing all that I have done over the span of years makes my head hurt...
haroldunger Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 Actually, I am now selling my "country" home and the buyer seems very much interested in the "high tech" aspect of the home. My broker indicated that the system seemed to have added value. So, I am leaving the ISY and will buy another one for my city digs. In any case, I will give them the name of a Universal Devices expert to keep the system running. I do not intend to babysit.
MWareman Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 but wow - the thought of rapidly undoing all that I have done over the span of years makes my head hurt... Started my rebuild today. And yes, my head is hurting...
Xathros Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 I pulled my system out when I moved and rebuilt/expanded at my new place. Ended up with a much more functional system the second time around. Could have fixed the first one by starting over but never felt it was worth doing until the move forced the issue. -Xathros
jsu1995 Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 I took mine with me when we moved three years ago. Thankfully, I only had about 6 Switchlincs a couple Keypadlincs and the rest were just plug-in modules. The system has since grown in our new house and is up to 9 Switchlincs, 15 Keypadlincs, and 4 Fanlincs. We don't plan on ever moving from this house, but if we did, I'm sure I'd still take most of it with me. I say "most"' because I might consider leaving a few items that may add significant value... like the keypadlinc in the main house that controls the two garage doors of the detached shop (via a couple of IOlincs). In that case, I'd also leave the Switchlinc that controls the shop lights. It seems that anyone would see full control of the electronics in the detached building as a nice feature and may, therefore, be worth me losing the $200 that those four items cost. On a side note, my entire Elk system would be coming with me also. I've got way too much money in that system to be left to someone that probably would never even arm it anyway. I'd get some cheap panel/keypad to throw in it's place and be done with it.
bipto Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 Having just passed the 75 device mark (and still growing, LOL), removal of my entire system would likely take me weeks of evenings and weekends, and despite the investment I just can't see that being a viable option. I might be more inclined to consider a compromise where I left all the "basic" devices behind (SwitchLincs, OutletLincs, etc.) linked appropriately to provide typical household lighting and outlet control, but taking the ISY and PLM along with the devices requiring custom programming, like thermostats, motion sensors, etc.
haroldunger Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 I totally agree. It would cost me much too much in time and money to remove the switches. In reference to the ISY, the cost is not that high. So, I'll leave it. Also, if I removed it, the new owners would not have proper evening lighting and would not receive house issue/problem email notifications. Further, in my case, the new owners are young and might have an interest in playing with the programming. If not, I am giving them the name of a competent consultant.
apostolakisl Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 I would say it would probably be worth it to remove them. . I am sure you could find a licensed electrician looking for some side work who would replace a whole house worth of them in a day. At $40 minimum for a switchlinc and double that for KPL's, I would expect several thousand dollars worth of switches could be replaced by an electrician for just a few hundred dollars. It helps of course if you still have the old switches (which I do).
larryllix Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 I would definitely take it out first before any prospective buyer even sees the things. In my area house with pools are hard to sell. I know of several people bought a house with a pool and ended up filling the thing in as they didn't want the costs of maintenance. Without the "special buyer" some things detract from the price you may get. Alternative energy systems can be like that too. People want money subtracted from the list price to have somebody remove it, are afraid of it, etc.. I have also seen many people that wiil not buy a house with a pool only to install one themselves two years after purchase. Years back I sold a house full of X10 switches. After the sale I removed all the X10 switches and replaced them with not-manufactured anymore, small rocker switches. When the buyers came in for their last day inspection the woman freaked out running in right to a switch I had "made disappear" and exclaimed, "Oh good you took out those weird switches. We had no idea what to do with them!". My question would be.... Would you buy a house where somebody else has installed a fancy gadget that you probably don't understand, in it? Would you pay extra for it or use it for an excuse to lower the price offer? In short. The techies want to do it themselves and the non-techies are afraid of it. Yeah, leave a few switches in with one keypad to "dazzle" the young techie into buying the house. Spend many hours training the Real Estate Agent on how and when to push the buttons.
io_guy Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 I've debated this myself. I would likely leave the system in place and tell potential buyers that I'd remove it if desired. I don't see value in moving 5 year old switches and dimmers to a new place. Especially since if I buy new I get I2CS & dual band.
Teken Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) Another consideration is if a person built the house around Insteon. I know a few people here actually did this and at the end of the day it was a huge mistake. IE. They literally have one or two switches in place of a bank of switches. The real wiring was hidden in a closet, attic, what ever. I believe if you truly know this is the last home then OK. But, if there is any doubt in your mind don't be stupid and have no real wiring in a place that can't be replaced with a normal switch in case of a failure or the part is no longer being made. I really do get the whole, it looks clean approach. But people have to use some common sense when doing this whole HA stuff. Also, when I see the whole clear button KPL buttons with the ghetto style custom writing / printing. At that point you deserve to lose some points on the resale value of the home, so cheap and ghetto! Edited July 30, 2014 by Teken
apostolakisl Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 I've debated this myself. I would likely leave the system in place and tell potential buyers that I'd remove it if desired. I don't see value in moving 5 year old switches and dimmers to a new place. Especially since if I buy new I get I2CS & dual band. You may not want to put the switches into your new house if they are a bit vintage on the firmware/hardware side. But I really believe that these switches on the whole will scare off a buyer and as such drop your house value. My approach would be: 1) hire a freelance electrician to take all the switches out. Probably end up costing $5/switch and pretty much no time lost or headache for me. 2) save the ones that I want to install in new house. 3) sell the rest on ebay. You make money because 1) your house probably sells for higher price/more quickly without the switches 2) you saved at least some of the switches for you new house 3) you sold the ones you didn't want in your new house for more than it cost to remove them 4) you don't get a million phone calls from the new owner of the house wasting your time (time is money) when they can't figure it out. An alternative would be to make it clear when selling the house that the "fancy" switches are optional and will be removed by you if the buyer doesn't want them. I suppose this might give you the best of both worlds where it does not scare off a buyer who is scared of such techie stuff and might get the special tech happy buyer super excited about your house.
EricK Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 We bought our house 4 years ago which had at least 50 x10 switches. There were at least 9 keypads, all with unlabeled buttons. In the master bath there were 8 switches in the attic above remotely controlled by the x10 keypads. At the final walk thru the x-husband showed me where those switches were and gave me a brief lesson with the maxi controller. The switches were all pcs which were very expensive when installed. Yes I initially did the ghetto thing and printed labels so we could get going. Just one x10 keypad remains in the dining room which we use 3 times per year. Fortunately I was interested in the system although I knew nothing about it. I then learned about insteon and have migrated almost everything over, essentially anything that I want to remotely control or automate. For example, there are 3 switches in my office, but they just get turned on and off locally, so they have remained x10. I have grown the system extensively and my move to the isy has been the best upgrade. Most buyers would have seen the x10 system and when they could not turn the shower light on would have had the sellers rip it out. For HA systems I think the recommendation above that the system can stay or go is best. Although I cannot imagine any buyer would not like basic function like hitting an all off button and turning all the lights off in a room.
Techman Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Real estate laws are state specific. In California anything that is permanently attached to the house, such as light fixtures, switches, etc., is considered part of the real estate and is included in the purchase price unless it is specifically excluded in the listing contract and the multiple listing service. If you don't want your Insteon devices to go with the house it's best to have them removed them prior to putting the property on the market.
Teken Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) One thing worth mentioning is that many of us are the 1%. There are millions of people all around the globe who still use (regular switches) and have no interest in HA in any form. It really comes down to the new buyer and if they are still old school vs new school. I always find it interesting and funny to know many of the people on this board are in fact NOT under 25! One would think all of the members who are so into technology, home automation, etc would all be in their early 20-30's. It just goes to show you age has no baring on what a buyer may want, like, dislike. Edited July 30, 2014 by Teken
paulbates Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Agreed Teken We have talked about moving and it would be a mixed bag. I would want to leave it there for passive automated functions that would not have a different programming preference: 2 EZfloras and the iolinc temp sensor and hi speed low speed inline lincs for the attic fan. I could swap out the isy for a smaller version. There is one way to water the grass & one way to keep the upstairs cool by venting the attic. All the light switches, garage control, thermostats,.. everything else, would come out.
PurdueGuy Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 If I were selling today, I'd probably take out the switches and plugs, and hire an electrician to put in new ones (faster than I could). I kept my RainBird lawn timer when I put in the EZFlora. If/When I go to sell in some time, I'll re-evaluate. If more is known by more people at the time, I'd be more inclined to leave them. I would leave the DSC alarm in place, but probably take the Envisalink module with me.
haroldunger Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 I just went to contract on the house. I will speak with the buyer soon and determine if the high tech aspect of the house meant anything to him and his wife. He is 50 and she is 45. Stay tuned.
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