cowboyzx6 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Everything was working fine and now all of a sudden when I start the Admin console, I am getting the red exclamation marks on a bunch of devices. I have the ISY994 plugged into a PLM as well as 2 additional Insteon 2443 access points. I have tried to restart all the devices. I have also done the 4 tap set on the PLM, and then even moved and reset the access points to 2 different outlets. Below is a sample log of when I have pressed the On button (in the console) a couple of times for two of my switches that show the red exclamation. Never had to go through any of this diagnostic so not sure how to interpret. Sun 11/23/2014 11:51:43 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 15 71 45 0F 11 00 Sun 11/23/2014 11:51:43 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.71.45 0F 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) Sun 11/23/2014 11:51:45 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 15 71 45 0F 11 00 Sun 11/23/2014 11:51:45 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.71.45 0F 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) Sun 11/23/2014 11:51:45 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.71.45 0F 11 00 06 LTONRR (00): Duplicate or ACK for a different device Sun 11/23/2014 11:51:46 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 15 71 45 0F 11 00 Sun 11/23/2014 11:51:46 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.71.45 0F 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) Sun 11/23/2014 11:51:46 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.71.45 0F 11 00 06 LTONRR (00): Duplicate or ACK for a different device Sun 11/23/2014 11:51:47 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 15 71 45 0F 11 00 Sun 11/23/2014 11:51:48 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 15 71 45 0F 11 00 Sun 11/23/2014 11:51:48 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.71.45 0F 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) Sun 11/23/2014 11:51:48 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.71.45 0F 11 00 06 LTONRR (00): Duplicate or ACK for a different device Sun 11/23/2014 11:51:50 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 15 71 45 0F 11 00 Sun 11/23/2014 11:51:50 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.71.45 0F 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) Sun 11/23/2014 11:51:50 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.71.45 0F 11 00 06 LTONRR (00): Duplicate or ACK for a different device Sun 11/23/2014 11:51:51 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 15 71 45 0F 11 00 Sun 11/23/2014 11:52:03 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 15 84 AC 0F 11 FF Sun 11/23/2014 11:52:03 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.84.AC 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF) Sun 11/23/2014 11:52:05 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 15 84 AC 0F 11 FF Sun 11/23/2014 11:52:05 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.84.AC 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF) Sun 11/23/2014 11:52:05 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.84.AC 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF): Duplicate or ACK for a different device Sun 11/23/2014 11:52:05 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 15 84 AC 0F 11 FF Sun 11/23/2014 11:52:06 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 15 84 AC 0F 11 FF Sun 11/23/2014 11:52:06 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.84.AC 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF) Sun 11/23/2014 11:52:06 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.84.AC 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF): Duplicate or ACK for a different device Sun 11/23/2014 11:52:07 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 15 84 AC 0F 11 FF Sun 11/23/2014 11:52:07 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 15 84 AC 0F 11 FF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Hi cowboyzx6, It seems that the PLM is not able to communicate with any of your devices. My recommendation is to take the PLM and plug it into a different outlet and retry. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboyzx6 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 I have my PLM in my server closet (with my ISY) and all my other Audio Video and networking gear. It has been this way since I first purchased and installed. What would cause it to stop working all of a sudden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 An aging component or power supply. Try using a long extension cord from a different location the power both the PLM and ISY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oberkc Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 IN addition to the possible explanations offered by stusviews, perhaps it is a combination of your closet stuff, plus the addition of something new somewhere else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboyzx6 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 Thanks guys! Just to give a few more data points... this is a rectangular townhouse with 2 floors. About 900 s.f. per/floor. Dimensions are 50 x 20 The PLM is installed in a server closet about 3/4 of the way from the front entrance of the house on the right side wall. I did just do as suggested and tried running a long extension cord from the opposite wall at the front of the house and plugged it into the PLM. Still seeing the same communications issues. Also, I have some lights that are literally within 3 feet of lights/devices that are failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bshepperd Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I am having the same issue. I have a light switch in the back door and one in the pantry that all of the sudden cannot communicate. Not sure what else to test. I also have many other devices that are working correctly and have been for over a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Do you have at least two dual-band devices that you have confirmed are communicating on opposite legs of the split, single-phase electric supply? What are the specific devices that you are having difficulty with? What is the ISY firmware version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bshepperd Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I have the PLM and an access point. The two devices that are not communicating are Micro Module on/off v.43. Both of these worked for over a year without any changes to any devices. ISY firmware is 4.1.1 I also have one other dual band device but I am not sure if it is on another phase. According to the instructions, the access point was on a different phase when I installed it. Both worked well for a year. Even after they started having communication issues they would periodically be able to communicate again. Sounds like impedance in the lines from some other device.I just moved the access point and both started working again for a few minutes then one of them had a communication error. Do you think the likely cause is another electronic device that is not allowing the signal to pass to the rest of the devices on that phase? If so, is adding additional access points or dual band devices the solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 There are a lot of possible causes, none of which can be determined unless you have adequately bridged the single-phase electric supply (single-phase means that there is only one phase, not two). How have you determined that you have at least one dual-band device on each opposite leg of the split, single-phase electric supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bshepperd Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Thanks for your help. A PLM and an access point constitutes two devices -- correct? According to the instructions the access point led will be red during setup if it is on the same phase as the PLM and will be green if it is on a separate phase. Do I need two access points instead of the PLM and one access point? Up until now I been assuming a PLM and an access point is all I need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Any two correctly located, as indicated by the 4-tap test, dual-band devices can be used to bridges the opposite legs of the single-phase electric supply. A dual-band PLM and an Access Point are adequate. What are the specific devices that you are having a problem with? BTW, unless you happen to be on very old, never updated farm land or are living in Philadelphia, you do not have two-phase electric power. Two-phase electric power started being phased out (pun intended) around 1890. If you have an overhead electric supply, then it's easy to determine which you have. A split, single-phase electric supply will have three wires. Two phase power will have four wires. A phase-coupler or -bridge gets its name because the (sine wave of the) opposite legs of the electric supply are 180º out-of-phase with each other. That due primarily to the nature of alternating current (AC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bshepperd Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I will run through the setup again to prove to myself that it is correct. Can I also assume that if the outlets are controlled by opposite sides of the breaker box that they are on opposite legs of the electric supply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Nope.The split is is vertical, not horizontal. Some panel have half-height breakers in which case a pair of vertically adjacent breakers are on the same leg. Standard breakers, BTW, are 1" in height. A A B B A A B B A A . . . . Unless you are intimately familiar with how the electric wires were run (physical location is NOT an indication), then the easiest indicator is the result of the 4-tap test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bshepperd Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 OK - so it appears I did not follow the instructions last year when I installed it. After trying it again I have the access point in the right the location and everything seems to be OK. Thanks for being patient with me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bshepperd Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Spoke too soon. Still have a problem. I tapped the PLM four times and it started beeping as expected. Moved the access point around until it had a blinking green light. Tapped the button again on the PLM to turn off detection mode. The admin console did not give me a communication issue until I tried to turn on the specific light. Still confused as to what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Are you using a controller device or the console to turn the Micro Module on/off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bshepperd Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 using the admin console Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oberkc Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 What else is plugged into the same outlet and circuit as the PLM? Please make sure the PLM is not surrounded by lots of other electronic gadgets. I, personally, would not try to solve this problem by throwing access point into your house. Instead, I would look for root cause and filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bshepperd Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 The ISY unit and the PLM are in the same outlet. I also have multiple computers, routers, modems, USB drives on the same circuit. Sounds like you think the issue is another electronic device attenuating the signal. I am trying to think of anything new that I have purchased and plugged in since it started happening. I will start unplugging things and see which one needs a filterlinc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Some computer power supplies are a problem. As a test, use a long extension cord to power the PLM from a distant part of the house. It doesn't matter how the ISY power supply is energized. Routers and modems are usually OK as are USB hubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bshepperd Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I started unplugging things one at a time with no luck until I came to my MacBook Air. Like clockwork, when it was unplugged the switch worked when it was plugged back in it stopped working. When I get my filterlincs it should solve the problem. Thanks for the pointers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oberkc Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 I would put ALL those devices, except plm, on a filter. Hopefully, a single filter has enough capacity to handle everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecheng70 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 This just happened to me today. I logged into the admin panel and all the Insteon switches and garage door sensors are not working. They have the red exclamation. The battery powered Insteons (water sensors) do not have the red exclamation point. The outlet that the PLM is plugged into is directly out of the electrical panel. It has been this way since the day I purchased the zwave version of the ISY. Thoughts? -Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeG Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 The battery powered devices sleep to save battery life so the ISY does not initiate commands (Query for example) to these devices which is why they do not have Red ! indicating comm issue. Is that a few hours, a few days, a few months the Insteon network has been working but stopped for some reason. When all comm fails it could be a bad PLM or something is generating interference on the powerline as the IO Linc is powerline only. Is the LED on the side of the PLM On? Does the 4 tap Set button test show the 120v legs are still coupled? Can any action restore comm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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