ISY Program / Scene / Memory Limitations

[Grizzy]

Hi,

 

I have been looking for an explanation of ISY Limitations and have not been able to find any except Pro version says 1000 programs / 1000 Scenes.

 

Ok my question is what constitutes a program and / or  Scene.

 

Is this memory related?

 

Seems if it is memory related it would depend how many lines are in a program or how many devices are in a Scene ?

 

Do I just count the number of entries on the program summary tab or Scenes I have created ?

 

Speaking of Memory  the number of variables and Notification messages and Network IP's & commands would all impact the available memory. What is limitation on "free" memory ?

 

Is there any limit on the number of variables?

 

What role does the Micro SDHC. Can it be replaced it with a larger capacity one ?

 

I'm interested in knowing if anyone can help.

 

Kind of like watching how full your hard drive is getting.

 

Thanks to everyone for your contributions !!

 

 

 

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Grizzy,

 

Ok my question is what constitutes a program and / or  Scene.

- Scenes are nodes in the device tree

- Programs are those under Programs tab

 

Is this memory related?

What is memory related?

 

Seems if it is memory related it would depend how many lines are in a program or how many devices are in a Scene ?

No, you can have as many lines in the programs as you would like.

 

Do I just count the number of entries on the program summary tab or Scenes I have created ?

For # of nodes, you can do Tools | Topology

Fro # of programs, it's the number of programs

In the past 9 years, there was only one instance where someone needed more than a 1000 programs. So, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Speaking of Memory  the number of variables and Notification messages and Network IP's & commands would all impact the available memory. What is limitation on "free" memory ?

No, they are pre-allocated and reused.

 

Is there any limit on the number of variables?

No.

 

What role does the Micro SDHC. Can it be replaced it with a larger capacity one ?

Configuration files + Web Server files + [user Defined] Web files.

Yes, you can change it but I am not sure it would have any benefits unless you want to use ISY for storage. Here are the instructions:

http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Replacing/Formatting_an_SD_Card

 

Kind of like watching how full your hard drive is getting.

Not really a good analogy!

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Grizzy]

Michel,

 

Thank you for answering my questions.

 

In referring to memory, I meant to ask if the 1000 limits were due to memory limitation or just coded into the firmware ?

 

Yes it is unlikely I will have that many programs my questions are mostly curiosity about the ISY hardware.

 

I'm new to ISY so I have what may seem like insignificant questions, none the less I have a desire to learn.

 

Thanks

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Grizzy,

 

My pleasure and please do not hesitate to ask any questions you have.

 

The limitation is based on available RAM.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[johnnyt]

I have over 160 device nodes 200 variables and 750 programs. I expect to exceed 850 programs if/when I add a thermostat that I can control via ISY and reach 1000 if/when I add other things I'm thinking of adding but holding off on for now. I find ISY h/w lacks horsepower/throughput for that many programs. GUI is really slow to load so I leave it running but there's a memory leak - slow one for me plus I have 8GB RAM - so not too big a deal but you'll read/hear that the GUI was not designed to be left running. I had and still do have performance problems (a subjective thing, I suppose) but took a load off by getting rid of IOLincs I had to query (which caused extreme slowdowns) and replacing them with a device with relays that I can activate using the network module. Although it can't be queried, it is very reliable, which I can't say the same for my IOLincs (partly but not totally related to intermittent comms issues) - an insteon/environmental issue not an ISY issue, of course. While the sw is obviously built to ensure what is supposed to happen does happen, there were WAF impacting delays at times and things like emails that are supposed to send state don't end up sending the correct state when busy because the email is queued/sent many seconds later after the state has changed, or it ends up sending unrelated data. The program logging could also use notable improvement but probably only once faster h/w is available. It's sometimes difficult to know for sure out of the box when a program with a condition has actually run true because it evaluates/shows false in the GUI after it has run true. Also all programs that look at a particular thing as part of the condition get evaluated when the thing changes. To know if something actually executed you have to get a program to send an email or set a variable. The former is subject to the performance problem I mentioned. In either case it adds notable programming (and GUI loading) overhead. A relatively high number of my programs/variables and commands/actions are for logging and troubleshooting.

 

Don't get me wrong. I really like my ISY. Much better overall than homeseer, which I used for over 7 years before getting an ISY 4+ yrs ago. The question here is just about limitations so I'm listing the biggest ones as I see them. Some of the other ones I might have listed around math capabilities, variables and two way network functionality are, I think, high on the list of improvements expected in the next round of firmware so I stuck to stuff I'm not expecting to see fixed in the near term.

 

See also http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/14715-where-to-go-from-here/?p=123845

 

[Grizzy]

Thank You " johnnyt "  for your observations and candid responses.

 

My main server is an older AMD-2800 desktop running Twin Lakes Home Automation Software. EXCELLENT and VERSATILE software. I currently interface the real world through OPTO 22 Optomux Brain and Relays ..... and of course the somewhat reliable X10 modules where applicable. I have approximately 64 Relays Mostly output but about 30% input. I don't foresee getting everything transplanted to the ISY.

 

I very new to the ISY and thankful for you clue on the I/O Linc. I assume the  Smartenit will have the same issues?

 

Twin Lakes Home Automation went out of business about 12 years ago, but it still has everything on the non-commercial market beat hands down. The GUI is 100% designable by the user. It has multiple visual layers with the ability to take any bit map and make it a control icon, background foreground static or dynamic. Due to its age it is lacking on the networking side. I worked in a power generating station for 40 years. I designed Control System Simulators for large power generating units with the commercial software from Foxboro, GE, and Westinghouse (now Emerson). TLHA GUI was a poor mans  commercial DCS

 

I have been looking for something new that maybe I can support / replace the old desktop server. My #1 requirement is I/O capability.

 

What kind of relay I/O are you using ?

 

I bought the CAI board but have not yet tried to connect to it from the ISY. I needed to get some more of the basic functionality experience prior to tackling the networking side.

 

I wonder if anyone has interfaced the ISY to OPTO 22  ???

 

OPTO 22 is ideal for I/O due to its surplus availability and COST.  It was designed as an industrial control system thus is extremely reliable and rugged.

 

I have a huge learning curve in front of me, being 65 I'm starting to feel learning new technology harder and harder.

 

It sounds like you are using the ISY at it upper limits, have you considered using another ISY together or is that possible ?

 

The Power Plant systems used from 1 to 255 multiple Distributed processing & I/O  NODES  on a single Ethernet network. Every Node has a redundant twin should a hardware failure occur.

 

I will be thankful for any guidance / Lessons Learned and  What you would do different.

 

Thanks Again

[stusviews]

 

It sounds like you are using the ISY at it upper limits, have you considered using another ISY together or is that possible ?

 

 

Yes it is possible to use more that one ISY concurrently. In fact, I am using two.

 

Keep it green in '15

[Grizzy]

Do they communicate with each other and pass variables / control data between each other ?

[johnnyt]

Grizzy,

Google "digital loggers din relay" for the device I use for my relays (to control hvac related stuff).

 

I did consider 2 ISYs but decided against it because of the work needed to split everything. Next house if the hw hasn't changed I would put my hvac on one and everything else on another. I don't think that's for beginners, though.

 

I don't have one myself but the CAI board has lots of positive feedback and users (for help) here.

 

I don't know any of the other pieces you mentioned but think the fact you conquered those means you have the aptitude needed to conquer anything with an ISY. It's extremely flexible with the ability to communicate with other systems with, I think, more of that on the way. Of course you don't have to do it all at once.

 

When I get to a real computer, I'll post a few links that aren't easy to find/add on an ipad using Tapatalk.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Grizzy]

Thanks I'm looking forward to your information.

 

stuviews:

 

Can you share information on using the 2 ISY together. I'm very interested to doing the same.

 

thanks all

[stusviews]

Each ISY manages different devices, so I have no need to pass parameters between the two.

[johnnyt]

Grizzy,

 

As promised earlier here are some links you might find interesting.

 

This thread covers dual ISY's and a discussion on performance (viewed largely as a programmer problem it seems). It also points to archived threads on my setup and some of my past problems, including with IOLincs.  http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/11033-runnning-two-isys-in-one-house/?do=findComment&comment=89654

 

An IOLinc alternative I don't personally recommend http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/14475-ezio8sa-or-similar-is-it-any-good/

 

http://digital-loggers.com/din.html