paulbates Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Having spent time with both hub and both flavors of 2413PLM on homeseer, I'd stick with the PLM (...he said, never having had an all-on event, knocking on wood) Multiple apps accessing the hub, as designed, is problematic. It can't tell controllers apart one from the other. The HUB holds on to an insteon message from the power-line until its polled, and it delivers it to the last requestor and forgets it. No concept of state or how many things are talking to it. While its probably feasible to send from multiple controllers, the above problem would make it "hit or miss" getting any insteon responses back to the right controller, since it doesn't keep track. Maybe a scene only network There are also performance impacts as the hub holds power line message until polled by the controller. Its not terribly slow, but its noticeable slow for some things . Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 I'd stick with the PLM (...he said, never having had an all-on event, knocking on wood) Now, you just jinxed yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravedog Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Enjoy my friend! http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2245-222-hub.html That is not the new pro hub. The pro is about 150 and is not shipping until jan 28th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravedog Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 This rep does not instill confidence. Drinking game bonus: mentions of the 200+ items!!! (Counting color options does not a different product make) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 First the camera man needs to be fired and throttled. This guy can't be a professional camera man. I have never seen such crappy video capturing in my life. I thought I was on a freaking skiff rocking back and forth in the ocean. Yeah, I am really unsure why they claim 200 plus products when in fact they are really counting items like accessories like color keys, remote holsters, 6/8 change kits etc. I always find it humerus when I read or see them quoting thousands of developers. Really thousands?? Can anyone name 100, no? Why is that? How many people actually make Insteon devices as a third party vendor?? Off the top of my head its Skylink, Smartenit, UDI, that's it. There used to be Broan for the fans but to date I have never heard of a single soul who had one. Having said all of this, I am extremely pleased to see more retailers carrying the Insteon line even if most of them are criminals and selling them at 10-20% more like you have to be a freaking moron to do that??? I was however surprised and happy to hear some kind of open API is available?? I have to gather he is speaking about the Apple Home Kit, and not House Linc which of course would be great for those who are having issues with the HUB II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peabods Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 That is not the new pro hub. The pro is about 150 and is not shipping until jan 28th I never said it was, if you read my comments it was based on the new Hub 2, not the Hub Pro. We are in the Hub Pro topic though, i can see why you would mistake the comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravedog Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I never said it was, if you read my comments it was based on the new Hub 2, not the Hub Pro. We are in the Hub Pro topic though, i can see why you would mistake the comment.. You know,for a second I thought that. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icerabbit Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Between the motion sickniss inducing video and the repetitive blabbing about 200 products, I had to stop watching. I'm trying to figure out if this new "hub" (or other hardware) is going to be mandatory to get homekit/siri compatibility. Or if it can just be software via the insteon app or maybe a udi app; acting as a software go-between; and one keep their smartlinc and isy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I see the HUB Pro is now available on the Smarthome sales pages. http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2243-222-hub-pro.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 I see the HUB Pro is now available on the Smarthome sales pages. http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2243-222-hub-pro.html I saw this the other day but what caught my eye was the last portion of the advert: Compatibility If you're just getting started, there's a wide array of Insteon devices that work with the new HomeKit-enabled Insteon Hub. And if your home is full of Insteon already, there's no need to replace all of your existing Insteon devices. Does this mean newer Insteon devices will have Apple Home Kit chips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peabods Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I read this as more of a notification for new and existing users that there isn't a hardware change with the dimmers/switches, new or old. I believe they are simply stating that in order to gain the added benefit of Homekit with Insteon that you only need to purchase the new hub to add in the new services, not all your existing hardware. That's how i read it anyway. I saw this the other day but what caught my eye was the last portion of the advert: Compatibility If you're just getting started, there's a wide array of Insteon devices that work with the new HomeKit-enabled Insteon Hub. And if your home is full of Insteon already, there's no need to replace all of your existing Insteon devices. Does this mean newer Insteon devices will have Apple Home Kit chips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 That is how I read it initially also but then my mind got the best of me! Ha! One would think they would incorporate Apple Home Kit chips into future products. Doing so would help move products in the market place. The reason being is now all Insteon devices would be Apple Home Kit enabled and anyone using other Apple Home Kit controllers could take advantage of such devices. That is a win win for everyone, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peabods Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 It would make sense for selling Insteon equipment in general, potentially at the cost of cannibalizing the Insteon ecosystem though. It will be interesting to see how they handle this for future products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 It would make sense for selling Insteon equipment in general, potentially at the cost of cannibalizing the Insteon ecosystem though. It will be interesting to see how they handle this for future products. Peabods, Could you expand on your thoughts about cannibalizing the Insteon ecosystem a little more? I just want to make sure I understand your thoughts and views as to how this may impact them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peabods Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 By not controlling what ecosystem the Insteon dimmers or devices are used in by making them Homekit compliant, they could potentially be used in systems that aren't managed well from a Hub, software or processor standpoint. By keeping everything within the Insteon family of products they have more control of the satisfaction of the customer than from someone who mixes and matches product lines, resulting in better control of the Insteon environment. The cannibalizing would come from increased sales on the equipment that is Homekit compliant, they would not necessarily require the use of an Insteon Hub and would open them up to use Insteon dimmers with other manufacturer's hubs or controllers. You get more Insteon sales but you also don't gain anything on the Insteon ecosystem, since you went outside of it. Most manufacturers want to protect their investment and tend to lock them down to their ecosystem only, I don't expect Insteon to be any different in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 By not controlling what ecosystem the Insteon dimmers or devices are used in by making them Homekit compliant, they could potentially be used in systems that aren't managed well from a Hub, software or processor standpoint. By keeping everything within the Insteon family of products they have more control of the satisfaction of the customer than from someone who mixes and matches product lines, resulting in better control of the Insteon environment. The cannibalizing would come from increased sales on the equipment that is Homekit compliant, they would not necessarily require the use of an Insteon Hub and would open them up to use Insteon dimmers with other manufacturer's hubs or controllers. You get more Insteon sales but you also don't gain anything on the Insteon ecosystem, since you went outside of it. Most manufacturers want to protect their investment and tend to lock them down to their ecosystem only, I don't expect Insteon to be any different in this regard. That is a interesting way of looking at it and I have to agree on several points you made. For me this is purely selfish reasons for making the Insteon devices embedded with Apple Home Kit chips. My idea is similar to previous comments I made about giving away Insteon chips to hardware manufacturers. In the hopes this would bridge the massive void of third party vendors that actually make Insteon devices. Going the (popular route) of the Apple Home Kit method allows a similar position. My over all goal (as selfish as it is) is to have Insteon in all markets. In doing so critical mass would start to push down prices for the *current* pricing we see now. In the two examples listed this would offer such a possibility, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peabods Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I personally am all for it! I would love to be able to use an Insteon keypad in a different control system. In my opinion, Insteon could use more market penetration in whatever way they can. Opening up the hardware to be Homekit compliant would be a heck of a way to jump start it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 I personally am all for it! I would love to be able to use an Insteon keypad in a different control system. In my opinion, Insteon could use more market penetration in whatever way they can. Opening up the hardware to be Homekit compliant would be a heck of a way to jump start it. Absolutely, this in my mind is the clinch pin that will help others adopt Insteon and not fear of one single source vendor. With Z-Wave there are countless vendors making hardware etc. In the Zigbee front they too have various hardware makers catering in many industries etc. Using the power of AllJoyn, Apple Home Kit this would expand the borders to third party controllers and users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G W Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I see the HUB Pro is now available on the Smarthome sales pages. http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2243-222-hub-pro.html Is this Apple only? I can't find a definite answer and don't want to order if an Apple product is required as I don't own one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyoyo1 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Homekit is IOS only so it will only work with IOS. I do not foresee the chips being placed in the devices themselves. One, for the reasons stated above, because of costs, and lastly the control that apple wants over it's framework. Putting the chips in the switches would mean losing the ability for other controllers to use it. Apple does not want other things accessing the devices. This is why the Nest thermostat will not be supported. By doing the hub design, you enable consumers to use what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilyoyo1 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 My over all goal (as selfish as it is) is to have Insteon in all markets. In doing so critical mass would start to push down prices for the *current* pricing we see now. In the two examples listed this would offer such a possibility, no? Teken, I do not see switch prices dropping significantly. I think you will see switches at certain price points with different feature sets. In fact I do not want that to happen. I think you will have low cost switches which may allow basic operation (sort of like x10 right now and some cheaper zwave switches). Then another level thats still affordable but has additional features (more expensive zwave that allow for instant status) In regards to Insteon, if they can lower the cost of the switch, I would like to see the savings used to add more features such as (your wish) energy monitoring. If companies rush to the bottom, my fear is development will go out the door with it. If a switch costs 20 bucks to make and you sell it for 5 bucks, you have limited finances for R&D and the market becomes stagnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 Teken, I do not see switch prices dropping significantly. I think you will see switches at certain price points with different feature sets. In fact I do not want that to happen. I think you will have low cost switches which may allow basic operation (sort of like x10 right now and some cheaper zwave switches). Then another level thats still affordable but has additional features (more expensive zwave that allow for instant status) In regards to Insteon, if they can lower the cost of the switch, I would like to see the savings used to add more features such as (your wish) energy monitoring. If companies rush to the bottom, my fear is development will go out the door with it. If a switch costs 20 bucks to make and you sell it for 5 bucks, you have limited finances for R&D and the market becomes stagnant. I agree it shouldn't be a race to the bottom as it impacts what you're ultimately allowed to do. I think all of us are on the same page when talking about finances. None of us purchased the ISY Series Controller because it was the most expensive or the cheapest. It was because it offered so much value that the price for admission could be over looked. If Smartlabs includes (accurate) energy monitoring into their wares I can look past any reduced pricing strategy. The key thing I have to stress is accuracy and having the ability to fine tune the energy monitoring aspect. There are too many toy like devices being offered to the public that simply do nothing but give you a *rough* ball park range. I am not looking for rough ball park I want 2015 accuracy which can be had and done given the technology we have. I always enjoy reading your counter points because it keeps me grounded! Ha . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Not too sure how long this will be the case: http://www.insteon.com/support-knowledgebase/2015/5/26/unsupported-insteon-devices-with-insteon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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