G W Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I went to Home Depot on my way home and picked up a Wink Hub and two GE bulbs for $49.94. There is an offer that gets you the Hub for $20 when you buy 2 GE Link bulbs. The sad news is the current exploit has been patched. Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk
416to305 Posted January 21, 2015 Author Posted January 21, 2015 Was that offer from Wink directly or Home Depot? I've seen that one at Home Depot online mentioned but not here in Canada sadly. The Wink website is all priced in USD but is cheaper than here so with exchange probably works out similar. I'm more interested in the Wink Relay and seeing where that goes as that product is pretty amazing looking. Since it's entirely on that device and no web interface though, I think it seems unlikely that it would ever support Virtual Devices and what not to control the ISY via REST etc. It would be also nice if they supported all web based IP cameras and not just Dropcam as well. The other thing with Wink that I'd be more concerned with is that it has SO many protocols in it. Like for lighting it includes the Lutron technology which is proprietary it seems. So that's fine and all, but what happens if in a year or two Lutron decides they don't want to do connected lights anymore? Unlikely, but you'll be left with a house full of unsupported switches. At least with Insteon or Z-Wave there's many controllers to choose from. So I think even if I did get the Wink I'd still try to stick to devices like Z-Wave where I have other options also.
lilyoyo1 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I have been blessed to have the chance to try many controllers. I have to say, there is a reason why wink cost 50 bucks. My top 3 reasons are speed, capability, and it simply sucks. First off the speed. I linked a door lock to the wink and set it to turn on a light when a code is entered at night. It works, however by the time the lights turned on, your in the house doing other things. With the Isy, the lights are on by the time the door is open, and that's with zwave to insteon communication. Even with just turning a light on via the app is slow. It's OK for a customer who wants to control a lamp and a lock but I would not use it for home control and it's definitely not for automation. IMO the ISY,it's capabilities, and pricepoint is the all around best controller. Sure it would be nice to see plugins for things like hue bulbs and easier integration of WiFi thermostats (those are the best looking ones) but ultimately the ISY does only a few things and does it great instead of being like the other devices in trying to do many things but none that well at all.
lilyoyo1 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 That is my point the latest HUB II has this ability yet they don't use it. The real problem is the distinction of *update* has been clouded and masked. Before this whole App thing a update would imply a software applied to the hardware in this case a controller. Now these updates happen on the smartphone App. This is why its hard to tell if Smartlabs or any other cloud based business model actually does anything meaningful. From a hardware perspective once I load firmware / software its there, and just works. In a App, tied to the cloud if the cloud is *Sad* you literally have nothing to control. This was never the case for *Cloud* solutions but more and more of these idiots are creating their services to rely 90% of their use and control on the *Happy* cloud. These are the services and devices people should be aware of and stay 100% away from. The problem is you don't know until you actually use and try the service and sometimes people have invested so much its too late. As much as I throw stones at Smartlabs / Insteon I have always tried to design my systems where the home will always operate independent of a controller. Those who rely heavily on the controller to manage, automate, and operate their homes are simply putting themselves at risk. Teken, The hub 2 does have that ability to update firmware as you said but since it was just released, it is shipping with the latest firmware. With that said you can't push something if there is nothing to push. Most updates can be made via the app. The device itself doesn't necessarily need the update unless there is something found in the hardware itself.
Teken Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Teken, The hub 2 does have that ability to update firmware as you said but since it was just released, it is shipping with the latest firmware. With that said you can't push something if there is nothing to push. Most updates can be made via the app. The device itself doesn't necessarily need the update unless there is something found in the hardware itself. Hello Richaree, First I would like to say Happy New Years! On Topic: I agree with your statement if there is nothing to push there is nothing to update. My specific comment was addressing the fact (historically) Smartlabs has not been very quick or forth coming in releasing updates. I won't go into too much details about other products because you're most aware. But will list a few which Smartlabs has abandoned or did not release any updates even though they could have. House Linc 2, SmartLinc, iGateway, etc. Outside of the HL2, the SmartLinc had two major updates one being for the energy monitor. The issue I pose and see is the poor track record Smartlabs has for support in their hardware controllers. I am hoping very much their new alliance with Microsoft and following the Apple Home Kit eco system will push them to consider a longer road map for these controllers now coming on to the market place. Smartlabs currently in my mind does not utilize the *Cloud* very well in probably every way a person could imagine. My hopes is this HUB Pro will show case the true power of the cloud and if I was to guess. My hopes is they provide a combination of cloud storage, local access, cloud access, remote update, external media retrieval via the two USB ports etc. I can tell you from a consumer stand point if this new HUB Pro has no conditional logic or even basic diagnostics they are again doomed to fail. Outside of the Vera controller it is one of the most resold HA controllers on the market. Everyone I have ever met who has owned the HUB have indicated not only its limitations but its lack of support for their very own devices?? If the HUB Pro comes out like the other HUB's in the past not supporting or releasing half baked Apps. They will continue to be bashed, shamed, and lose market share. This isn't something I, or the general public want to see at all. A strong Smartlabs company is beneficial to me, you, and the public. Joe Dada needs to lead the team and have only one single goal moving forward in 2015. That is, to release a full on HA controller that is capable of doing the same things the ISY does. Its safe to say Smartlabs has the talent, brains, and resources to do so. But, the reality is there is no will to do so . . .
416to305 Posted January 21, 2015 Author Posted January 21, 2015 Rats wrote a huge reply but realized I never hit send and then it got lost lol. Was something about you can see on the Wink forums that it seems common from 10:30 to 11:30pm at night their servers are down, so lights won't turn on if on a timer etc. Sounds like they fully need Internet to make anything work, no thanks! I'm not as excited about the Hub Pro as I was originally, just because I doubt it will support Z-Wave, so half my network will be useless anyway, unless with HomeKit it might change some of that. I think the other thing too with the Wink to keep in mind is that yes it does do a lot of protocols, however I would guess that that would make things so frustrating sometimes. Like saying it supports WeMo natively and what not. Like WeMo runs on WiFi so you can't compare the reliability of that, to Z-Wave or Insteon RF. I have Ubiquiti Unifi access points in my house so my WiFi is pretty solid, but I still wouldn't want my lights running on it! My point with this is that buying a device that says "Z-Wave Certified" on it, or which is Insteon, you know it's going to work, but WInk has so many protocols including more rare ones like Lutron, that they could easily add or drop support for devices at any time, and there's no much anyone can really do about it. For me it's the interface. I HATE MobiLinc mostly because I come from ImperiHome on Android for Vera which doesn't even compare to MobiLinc. You can have multiple dashboards, with different layouts on each, like a large camera on the top, buttons on bottom etc, perfect for in wall touch panels. The Wink Relay is amazing looking, and I'm really hoping that they are able to do some fun stuff with it, like make virtual devices to control the ISY etc, even though that's very unlikely. It also needs to come down in price a bit. $300 isn't bad especially since it's a controller itself, but it's pushing it.
lilyoyo1 Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Happy New Years Teken. I hope yours has started off great. I do not see Insteon ever supporting Zwave. To many caveats with Zwave for one and they are focused on their own protocol. There are enough people making 3rd party controllers that in time, there will be no pressing need for them to spend R&D funds trying to get a competitors items working with theirs. Whether the new hub has conditionals or not and how that would affect the market is another argument. While everyone here desires logic, many people still choose the hub knowing its limitations simply because they don't want to spend the time or effort setting up commands. The hub is not a device for you and I. I personally see it as a gateway, sort of like cellphones in the beginning when smartphones came out. You get a phone not understanding why you need a smartphone till you see what a phone can do. After that, your needs change and you want more. Most don't understand the full capabilities of automation. The hub introduces them into this world and allows them to grow into this world at which point they can upgrade. The more passionate of us will gravitate towards the ISY, vera, homeseer etc. early on while the rest will grow into it
Teken Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Happy New Years Teken. I hope yours has started off great. I do not see Insteon ever supporting Zwave. To many caveats with Zwave for one and they are focused on their own protocol. There are enough people making 3rd party controllers that in time, there will be no pressing need for them to spend R&D funds trying to get a competitors items working with theirs. Whether the new hub has conditionals or not and how that would affect the market is another argument. While everyone here desires logic, many people still choose the hub knowing its limitations simply because they don't want to spend the time or effort setting up commands. The hub is not a device for you and I. I personally see it as a gateway, sort of like cellphones in the beginning when smartphones came out. You get a phone not understanding why you need a smartphone till you see what a phone can do. After that, your needs change and you want more. Most don't understand the full capabilities of automation. The hub introduces them into this world and allows them to grow into this world at which point they can upgrade. The more passionate of us will gravitate towards the ISY, vera, homeseer etc. early on while the rest will grow into it 1+ Absolutely agree on all counts. Its sad when a person forgets what they had and never looks back. This is how I felt about purchasing the ISY from the on set. Unlike most folks I actually went in the reverse and wanted a dumb simple box like the SmartLinc. I was really hoping the HUB II (39.99) version would have improved upon the SL by leaps and bounds. Sadly, this was not the case but I have to remind myself what are you expecting out of $39.99?? As much as I gripe about Insteon this has more to do with their controllers and not so much about their gear over all. I believe 2015 will bring new advances and products which all of us can enjoy and appreciate. Hope this message finds you well . . .
lilyoyo1 Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Thats what I say about the pricepoint also. With that said, how quickly we forget how bad the SL was compared to the hub. Having to set up devices just to create a scene every time. The slowness of the app compared to the hub. The interface etc. While we all would love and wish the hub could do more, for the segment that it is marketed to, it really is a major upgrade over the smartlinc.
416to305 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Posted January 22, 2015 I was fixing a program last night and looking at the user interface thinking this doesn't even compare to the wink, like anyone who looks at the wink with think it's a consumer product but looking at my ISY admin console I feel like it looks much more higher-end like what I would expect Crestron or something to look like. It would be cool if the wink relay was also just a switch with an android device running it basically, letting someone wiped it and then install any android automation software on it to control ISY. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
doubleohwhatever Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 It would be cool if the wink relay was also just a switch with an android device running it basically, letting someone wiped it and then install any android automation software on it to control ISY. I wish they had a relay without the buttons (just the screen). The relay runs android and I'm sure it could be rooted fairly easily as I doubt they've baked their own super secure rom just for one device. However, I imagine using those switch buttons without their software/app would be a challenge.
416to305 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Posted January 22, 2015 Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking. Unless those buttons are wired to the load then they might at least control that but I feel like they probably aren't because one of the features they talk about is how you can have those buttons control other devices or scenes. I love how it tilts out of the wall and doesn't flush. Would just be awesome as a touch panel for the ISY if it can be rooted! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
larryllix Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 OK. I have two Wink Hubs and here is what I have found. For me, absolutely useless! Control Philips Hue bulbs? No! Winks states it will, but when you attempt to link to a bulb the app instructs you to push the linking button on the Philips Hub. This unit can only link to a Philips Hub, not the bulb despite claiming to have a ZigBee radio in it, probably uses WiFi to link to the other hub? I found this same thing with the TCP Connect bulbs....link to their Hub, not the bulbs. I have returned one of my Wink Hub already and will be returning the other one today to a different Home Depot. The last thing I need in my house is another gadget to control a few bulbs. The dust has been cleaned off the package for HD though. Reading over the instructions and claims repeatedly, the Wink Hub makes many claims to link to devices, in each case with deliberately misleading language. This is found right inside the app in the device list. People investigating this could download the app but I don't believe you can get past the WiFi setup stage of the Wink Hub, without having an actual Wink Hub to set up. I had hoped the Wink Hub would be a fairly useful bridge device for multiple protocols from my ISY. Instead I found to just be a bridge to more bridges. Very disappointing. Perhaps one of the reasons it is only $50. It doesn't seem to have a needed function for a HA person.
Teken Posted January 24, 2015 Posted January 24, 2015 OK. I have two Wink Hubs and here is what I have found. For me, absolutely useless! Control Philips Hue bulbs? No! Winks states it will, but when you attempt to link to a bulb the app instructs you to push the linking button on the Philips Hub. This unit can only link to a Philips Hub, not the bulb despite claiming to have a ZigBee radio in it, probably uses WiFi to link to the other hub? I found this same thing with the TCP Connect bulbs....link to their Hub, not the bulbs. I have returned one of my Wink Hub already and will be returning the other one today to a different Home Depot. The last thing I need in my house is another gadget to control a few bulbs. The dust has been cleaned off the package for HD though. Reading over the instructions and claims repeatedly, the Wink Hub makes many claims to link to devices, in each case with deliberately misleading language. This is found right inside the app in the device list. People investigating this could download the app but I don't believe you can get past the WiFi setup stage of the Wink Hub, without having an actual Wink Hub to set up. I had hoped the Wink Hub would be a fairly useful bridge device for multiple protocols from my ISY. Instead I found to just be a bridge to more bridges. Very disappointing. Perhaps one of the reasons it is only $50. It doesn't seem to have a needed function for a HA person. Larry, Too bad you don't have other Z-Wave / Zigbee HA devices to test with this Wink. I would love to read how those products work and operate with this sub $50.XX HA Controller. I was just reading the blogs and it indicates Apple is in the mist of finalizing the specs to Broadcom so the chips that control the Apple Home Kit can be released for sale. I suspect all of this will work perfectly like Air Play or it will have a few revisions to work out the unknown bugs. Its clear to me even with Z-Wave there appears to be 101 ways to implement the API and basic device support. I have been watching afar with the ISY, Vera, HS, etc. I really wish all of these manufacturers would get their sh*t together and follow the specs. Never mind the actual vendors who made the spec, make so its dumb proof so its a matter of entering a few variables and commands. This is why I have high hopes with the whole Apple Home Kit. Its going to unify all the stupid and make HA universal and interoperatable with one another.
larryllix Posted January 25, 2015 Posted January 25, 2015 The second Wink Hub went back to the store and I picked up a smaller Philips Hue bulb, 4 x BR 30 bulbs with a Hue Hub. The colours on these bulbs lack quite a bit. They cannot really do blue or green. The closest they can get is somewhere around a cobaltish purple, and green is a washout and not really available. Possibly a yellow with a tint of lime green when dark and a yellowish white when full brightness. Very disappointing there. The purples and mauves are deep and reds and oranges...nice. Yellows very bright. I have seen other brands in the strips for undercounter and the blues are really pure but without RGBW the whites are useless for working, very weak and yellow.
edokid Posted February 7, 2015 Posted February 7, 2015 It sounds like your lights might be defective, I have no issue doing any colour on it especially blue and green. I have one night scene where one of my lights is bright blue, the other is red and most purple. The only known limitations are the light strips, they don't support all white/yellows. If you can't do blue or green something sounds wrong as I can achieve any colour without issue, other than nice white/yellows on the strips which is fine as the strips are designed to be accent colours and not an actual light. Also that's how all 3rd party devices control Hue, you always need to use the bridge. I don't think anyone thought it meant connect the Hue lights to the Wink directly without the bridge. I use Indigo as well and it has Hue support built into it, and you still have to use the bridge. Where it's better on Indigo though is that you can still change the lights from the Hue app or elsewhere, and Indigo is able to see exactly the status of all of them, if they are on/off, brightness, colours etc.
larryllix Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 It sounds like your lights might be defective, I have no issue doing any colour on it especially blue and green. I have one night scene where one of my lights is bright blue, the other is red and most purple. The only known limitations are the light strips, they don't support all white/yellows. If you can't do blue or green something sounds wrong as I can achieve any colour without issue, other than nice white/yellows on the strips which is fine as the strips are designed to be accent colours and not an actual light. Also that's how all 3rd party devices control Hue, you always need to use the bridge. I don't think anyone thought it meant connect the Hue lights to the Wink directly without the bridge. I use Indigo as well and it has Hue support built into it, and you still have to use the bridge. Where it's better on Indigo though is that you can still change the lights from the Hue app or elsewhere, and Indigo is able to see exactly the status of all of them, if they are on/off, brightness, colours etc. I guess that depends on what you define blue and green as. Here is a person putting a lux meter on the bulbs to compare the two brands. Reading the chart it verifies that Hue can't produce blue or green colours well. http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=159514
Brian H Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 WINK has a possible major issue. Seems they pushed out a new security certificate and bricked many of their HUBs. Some have to be returned to them for repairs. http://www.engadget.com/2015/04/19/wink-home-automation-hub-bricked/
xKing Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 It may be possible to recover in the field, see http://recovery.wink.com(I don't have one)
hfomby Posted August 7, 2015 Posted August 7, 2015 I had a lengthy post on using Wink, but it got dumped!@#$ Anyway, the short of it is, for 40 bucks you can add a Wink hub to your network, and get all the advantages (free phone app, Relay controllers, great Echo compatibility without Hue Emulator hacks, etc.) with no real downside. And by making Wink the primary controller, it is much easier to add zwave devices to the network - since it doesn't need an ethernet cable, simply plug it in near your new device and include the new device... Plus the problems with Wink are slowly disappearing, and their is a promise of local control "this summer"...
hfomby Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 Has anyone had any success in shifting primary controller to Wink or vice versa?
larryllix Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 Has anyone had any success in shifting primary controller to Wink or vice versa? Download the app and go through installing a device. Every device protocol, I tried, states "Press link button on the hub". People don't typically want their ISY talking through a node server, through a Wink Hub, through a Hue Hub, to a device. Way too high of a failure rate for dependable HA control. I would love to hear from somebody that has made this Wink Hub work directly to devices. Is there an API available to the public for people to interface to it?
Michel Kohanim Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 Hi hfomby, The process is pretty simple if and only if Wink supports "Controller Shift" (it must for it to be certified). Please take a look at this link which describes each scenario: http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY_Z-Wave_GenII_-_Instructions With kind regards, Michel
hfomby Posted September 8, 2015 Posted September 8, 2015 I have been playing around for a few weeks trying to determine the best way to link Wink and ISY99. After numerous false starts that had the unfortunate effect of erasing all of my devices on the Wink z-wave network (forcing me to exclude and then include 30 devices all through my house and yard), I finally found the right equation: 1) Click on Zwave/Receive (Learn Mode) on the ISY99 Admin Console 2) On Wink, open the hub, click on the three dots in the top right corner, choose your hub, click on Z-Wave Controls 3) Select "Inclusion Mode" on the Wink Hub 4) Sit back until it completes, and all your Z-Wave devices should show up on ISY99. 5) Open your "Lights + Power" on Wink, and, assuming you have not previously reordered your lights on Wink, you can rename all the devices on ISY99 in the order they appear on Wink My devices way out on the other side of my pool still show as unresponsive... even Wink has problems reliably turning these on and off, and I have been working on bridging the gap with devices and repeaters. In the end, you now have the advantages of Wink (including the phone app and Relay) with the programming power of ISY99, plus they show up on the HAD web pages...
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