JSP0511 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Hello all, I apologize if this is not in the right area. Hopefully someone can assist. I want to be able to control the on/off of both my air compressor and shop vac and wondered which insteon device I can put between the plug and the outlet without incident. For instance, would the on/off module work for this or would the amperage of either burn out the insteon device? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
Guitartexan Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 You could use an Aeon Labs on/off micro switch control a high amp definite purpose contactor. Everything you need would cost around $50. Sent from my SM-T230NU using Tapatalk Link to comment
JSP0511 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 Could this be control via ISY? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
fryfrog Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Most of the straight up on/off Insteon devices have pretty high load ratings, I think the outdoor module would work. I think even an Insteon switch would work. For controlling it, I think most of the newer devices are actually load sensing and can be a controller. I'm assuming your shop vacuum is connected to say, your saw... you stick a plug in on/off module on the saw and one on the shop vac. You make the saw's a controller and the shop vac a responder, then when you switch on the saw, the vac will switch off.If you stick the ISY in between them, you could have the ISY turn on the shop vac when a device is turned on... but stick a timer / wait in so that the vac doesn't turn off for a few minutes. That way, it won't be starting and stopping every time you pull the trigger on the chop saw or whatever.For the compressor, you'd need a switch near where you're using the air. Maybe a wireless remote? Or maybe for the compressor it'd be a turn it on when you walk in, turn it off when you walk out. For that, maybe a motion sensor in the room along with a wait to cover moments of stillness? Since the air compressor will turn off at the right pressure, that'd be enough. Link to comment
JSP0511 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 I want to put my vacuum and compressor in another room and run lines to my garage for suction and air. My saw would be in the garage and I can power that on by hand, but would love to be able to turn the other devices on from inside the garage. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
LeeG Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 It would be useful to know the load Amperage, starting and running. Link to comment
fryfrog Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I want to put my vacuum and compressor in another room and run lines to my garage for suction and air. My saw would be in the garage and I can power that on by hand, but would love to be able to turn the other devices on from inside the garage. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The device on the saw isn't used to power it on/off (that'd be silly), it is used to detect that the saw has been used and that the vacuum is needed to suck away the dust. If your goal is to walk into the room, flip a switch and have the shop vac and air compressor turn on and stay on, you can do that very easily with any of a wide variety of devices.. This plug in device will handle 15A / 1800W and this one has a ground (I just got one to control the gutter heaters on our house), I imagine you could reasonably plug both the air compressor and vacuum into it just fine. To control it, you'd need a switch. If the distance isn't too far or you have other Insteon devices, you could use a little remote to control it. If you want it wired permanently, you could replace one of your switches with a 6 button dimmer keypad. The On/Off buttons would control whatever the switch you replaced was controlling and you'd bind one of the 4 other buttons to the device the vac and compressor are plugged into. If you have a gang open, you could just snag an on/off switch instead of a keypad. You can do the same sort of thing with ZWave of course. If your ISY has a zwave module, you're fine for using it w/ the ISY. I'm assuming your ISY has a PLM for Insteon? But for *this* little bit, you don't even need an ISY. If you have one, setting it up in the ISY would just be for convenience. Until you start doing cooler things like... use a motion detector to turn things on like the lights and air compressor when you walk into the room. Use load detectors at each vacuumed tool to turn on the shop vac for 5-10 minutes. Link to comment
Teken Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Below are the technical specs of the dual band On/Off module. If your appliances fall with in those ratings should be fine. I've also included the specs for the outdoor module along with the dual outlet. I like the dual outlet because it provides an extra outlet for control. The only thing to note is that only the outdoor unit is outdoor rated. Where as the other two are not and not intended for extreme temperatures etc. Lastly, previous versions of the outlet relay had issues with large inductive loads causing the unit to either lock up or simply die. I haven't personally tried my compressor on the new dual outlet but might give it a try in the future because I really do like having control of two independent outlets. Link to comment
fryfrog Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I like the dual outlet because it provides an extra outlet for control. The picture makes it look like it has a set button for each outlet. Does this jsut show up as two devices in the ISY? Link to comment
G W Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 To be on the safe side I would supply power to the vacuum and compressor with a 20 amp relay. Insteon can be used to turn the relay on and off. Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk Link to comment
JSP0511 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 To be on the safe side I would supply power to the vacuum and compressor with a 20 amp relay. Insteon can be used to turn the relay on and off. Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk I'm not familiar on how this would be set up. Could you please elaborate? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
Teken Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The picture makes it look like it has a set button for each outlet. Does this jsut show up as two devices in the ISY? The physical device has two control buttons to turn each outlet on/off. The ISY shows it as having two nodes one being top the other bottom. Link to comment
G W Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I'm not familiar on how this would be set up. Could you please elaborate? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Read this thread. If you have questions I'll be happy to answer. http://forum.universal-devices.com/index.php?/topic/16119-ISY-Not-Allowing-Correct-Load-Selection-on-2443-222&do=findComment&comment=139391 Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk Link to comment
stusviews Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 If the shop vac and air compressor are on a 20 amp circuit breaker, then you should use a 20 amp controller. But, if they're on a 15 amp breaker, then a 20 amp controller is unnecessary. Link to comment
fryfrog Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Really, all that matters is the combined load of the vac and compressor. Even if they're on a 20 amp breaker, if their ratings are only 5a combined... you're fine. It'd help to know those details. Are they small, lower power devices? Or huge, power hungry ones. Link to comment
JSP0511 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 I have to check the specs when I get home. The vacuum is a dustless technologies 16gal and the compressor is a ingersolrand 4 gallon. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
G W Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I have to check the specs when I get home. The vacuum is a dustless technologies 16gal and the compressor is a ingersolrand 4 gallon. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Use an Insteon micro switch to control this relay: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B009PAPIOY/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1435868021&sr=8-1&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70&keywords=RIB2401B There are cheaper relays if you can do it all yourself, but you get the idea. And with the ISY and Insteon you can control the vacuum and compressor from any room. Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk Link to comment
fryfrog Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I have to check the specs when I get home. The vacuum is a dustless technologies 16gal and the compressor is a ingersolrand 4 gallon. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk They sound tiny, I can't imagine they draw too much power to just straight up use one of the plug in modules. I'd probably pick the outdoor one for the ground. I stand corrected, if the vac is http://dustlesstools.com/productdetails/D1603/Slurry%20Vacuums.php#productDetailsTab2 that is 11A @ 120v on its own. And the compressor, if it is http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_122381_122381 is 15A. Are they currently on the same circuit? If they are and you flip them both on at the same time and it doesn't kill the breaker... they're clearly over-rated. But even then, I might consider a plug in device for each one. Link to comment
larryllix Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 No Insteon device is going to run your dust collector system. I have never heard of a dust collector under 1 hp. I have one with a 1.5hp motor and run it using an X10 rf receiver module that runs a 60A mercury wetted contactor. These units, when starting up, draw high currents in the 30-50 ampere range and Appliance module contacts will just vaporise. When shutting off a running motor the regeneration of the sinning motor will arc across the resistive load contacts and just weld them together. It may work once or twice if you are lucky. You need arc and spike suppression circuitry and fast break contacts rated for motor loads. This is why the commercial units are hundreds of dollars and more for 2hp rated units. Link to comment
builderb Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 There are dust control setups that will trigger your vacuum upon opening a blast gate at the machine. That's what I'd use. Link to comment
JSP0511 Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 They sound tiny, I can't imagine they draw too much power to just straight up use one of the plug in modules. I'd probably pick the outdoor one for the ground. I stand corrected, if the vac is http://dustlesstools.com/productdetails/D1603/Slurry%20Vacuums.php#productDetailsTab2 that is 11A @ 120v on its own. And the compressor, if it is http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_122381_122381 is 15A. Are they currently on the same circuit? If they are and you flip them both on at the same time and it doesn't kill the breaker... they're clearly over-rated. But even then, I might consider a plug in device for each one. Both items you linked to are correct. I don't really think I'd be using both at the same time. All of this is for the garage in my house, not an actual shop of any kind. I don't heavily use either item but would like to relocate them to the boiler room (next room over) for both space savings in ye garage and the added bonus of not having to hear either very loudly when being used. Do you think two outdoor modules will do? I can even program them to turn the other off when one is turned on to ensure both devices cannot run at the same time. Of this did work I could strap one of those insteon remotes to the end of my vacuum hose. Thoughts? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
BamBamF16 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 There are many DCs that run on a 110/15 amp circuit. The biggest I've found is 1.75hp. My tablesaw is 1.75 hp and runs on a 15a circuit. I would think the outdoor middle would work. Link to comment
JSP0511 Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 There are many DCs that run on a 110/15 amp circuit. The biggest I've found is 1.75hp. My tablesaw is 1.75 hp and runs on a 15a circuit. I would think the outdoor middle would work. As fryfrog stated, the vacuum is 11.5amps, the compressor 15. Being that the electrical panel is fairly close to where I want to have the vac and compressor, I could put them on separate circuits if I felt the need. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
larryllix Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 ... Do you think two outdoor modules will do? I can even program them to turn the other off when one is turned on to ensure both devices cannot run at the same time. Of this did work I could strap one of those insteon remotes to the end of my vacuum hose. Thoughts? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk No! The Insteon units mentioned are rated for only resistive loads and they clearly state that. You loads are motors and the Locked Rotor Amps rating is usually not disclosed on home appliances. Note the ApplianceLinc module was discontinued. Your motor loads require much heavier devices as the starting currents (and/or LRA) are probably in the range of 20-40 amperes. The constant running current is not the problem for a closing and opening contact. Breakers, fuses, and contactors are rated to take short term surges that a motor creates. Closing relay contacts used in these Insteon devices cannot handle this and will destroy themselves. Read the device specs, but.... It's your money. Link to comment
DennisC Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 If you insist on connecting the dust collector to Insteon instead of one of the remote control devices designed for this application, I would suggest you use a power relay and an Insteon device to control activating the relay. Dennis Link to comment
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