Device to report outdoor temperature

[PhanTomiZ]

HI,

 

I'm looking for a cheap Insteon device preferably or a Z-Wave device that will report outside temperature back to the ISY. 

 

Of course it would have to be an outdoor device.  I want to be able to adjust the temperature of my Insteon thermostat through a program depending on the outside temperature.

 

Thanks

PhanTomiZ

[Teken]

HI,

 

I'm looking for a cheap Insteon device preferably or a Z-Wave device that will report outside temperature back to the ISY. 

 

Of course it would have to be an outdoor device.  I want to be able to adjust the temperature of my Insteon thermostat through a program depending on the outside temperature.

 

Thanks

PhanTomiZ

 

Hello Tom,

 

I believe a few people have been using and testing this Z-Wave 6 in 1 mutli sensor from Aeon Labs: http://www.smarthome.com/aeotec-zw100-a-z-wave-multisensor-6.htmlwith great success. So long as the device is placed under the eves or in a sheltered placement it should be fine.

 

It is rated as indoor / outdoor with a low IP rating.

[Jimbo.Automates]

Hello Tom,

 

I believe a few people have been using and testing this Z-Wave 6 in 1 mutli sensor from Aeon Labs: http://www.smarthome.com/aeotec-zw100-a-z-wave-multisensor-6.htmlwith great success. So long as the device is placed under the eves or in a sheltered placement it should be fine.

 

It is rated as indoor / outdoor with a low IP rating.

Yes, the latest Aeon MultiSensor 6 would work great, but AFAIK you can not make it report temperature very often when it is on battery, only when plugged in. I currently use a CT100 thermostat, only because I got one really cheap, and it doesn't get direct sunlight. Not ideal, but it works for exactly what you mentioned.

 

Edit: see this thread, best info in this post http://forum.universal-devices.com/index.php?/topic/16323-Setup-and-usage-of-Aeotec-MultiSensor-6&do=findComment&comment=145418

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[larryllix]

The Insteon thermostats die just below freezing and cannot output negative temperatures for C scales.

 

Is your range required restricted and will the Aeon device accommodate that range for outdoors?

 

Hook it up with a NiMH battery and a small solar cell stolen from a solar lamp sized to not cook the battery.

[MWareman]

Hello Tom,

 

I believe a few people have been using and testing this Z-Wave 6 in 1 mutli sensor from Aeon Labs: http://www.smarthome.com/aeotec-zw100-a-z-wave-multisensor-6.htmlwith great success. So long as the device is placed under the eves or in a sheltered placement it should be fine.

 

It is rated as indoor / outdoor with a low IP rating.

IP20 is not protected against liquids at all. I wouldn't use it outdoors at all....

 

http://www.dsmt.com/resources/ip-rating-chart

[Teken]

I wouldn't be too worried about the device if it was placed under the eves or in a sheltered enclosure. As Larry indicated, I would be aware the device is only rated to provide temperature readings from, 14-122'F / -10'C to 50+'C.

 

I am still looking to see and read hard data about how accurate some of the sensor elements are. For general purpose use I believe this is a great device which offers lots of flexibility for a compact sensor array.

[smokegrub]

I am curious why the Insteon thermostat would not be a desirable solution.

 

INSTEON Waterproof Temperature Sensor is an external sensor that wires into your INSTEON Wireless Thermostat. Able to withstand temperatures ranging from -13° to 185°F (-25° to 85°C), Waterproof Temperature Sensor is ideal for monitoring and maintaining temperatures in harsher environments, including pools, spas, aquariums, cellars, attics and more.

When connected, INSTEON Wireless Thermostat's LCD display will show the sensor's temperature readings in small digits above the Wireless Thermostat's internal monitor temperature reading. Waterproof Temperature Sensor's range can be extended up to 100' with 22 AWG wire.

[larryllix]

I am curious why the Insteon thermostat would not be a desirable solution.

 

INSTEON Waterproof Temperature Sensor is an external sensor that wires into your INSTEON Wireless Thermostat. Able to withstand temperatures ranging from -13° to 185°F (-25° to 85°C), Waterproof Temperature Sensor is ideal for monitoring and maintaining temperatures in harsher environments, including pools, spas, aquariums, cellars, attics and more.

 

When connected, INSTEON Wireless Thermostat's LCD display will show the sensor's temperature readings in small digits above the Wireless Thermostat's internal monitor temperature reading. Waterproof Temperature Sensor's range can be extended up to 100' with 22 AWG wire.

The 2441ZTH cannot do outdoor temperature ranges. I have two I have tested and they cannot send a negative Celsius temperature. The unit's electronics also quits functioning just below freezing.

 

The remote input is not transmitted.

Some have swapped the two input wiring for this but the range is still not capable of outdoor temperature ranges.

   0-255 counts (one byte) @ 0.5 deg.C per count = 0.0C - 128.5C

[io_guy]

You can't find a close enough weather station?

It may not be exact but should be good enough for thermostat play.

[smokegrub]

The 2441ZTH cannot do outdoor temperature ranges. I have two I have tested and they cannot send a negative Celsius temperature. The unit's electronics also quits functioning just below freezing.

 

The remote input is not transmitted.

Some have swapped the two input wiring for this but the range is still not capable of outdoor temperature ranges.

   0-255 counts (one byte) @ 0.5 deg.C per count = 0.0C - 128.5C

 

I am glad you shared this Larry. Your hand on experience shows that Smarthome's advertising is clearly incorrect. I have a 2441zth (with dongle) that I use to monitor the interior temperature of a vacation home. I have programmed notifications for 0700 every morning and a low setpoint indicative of failure of the heating system. I was considering adding the waterproof sensor to my setup.

[PhanTomiZ]

Hello Tom,

 

I believe a few people have been using and testing this Z-Wave 6 in 1 mutli sensor from Aeon Labs: http://www.smarthome.com/aeotec-zw100-a-z-wave-multisensor-6.htmlwith great success. So long as the device is placed under the eves or in a sheltered placement it should be fine.

 

It is rated as indoor / outdoor with a low IP rating.

 

This was the first I found on their website.  Website says now accepting pre-orders, so I thought it was not yet available...

[PhanTomiZ]

The Insteon thermostats die just below freezing and cannot output negative temperatures for C scales.

 

Is your range required restricted and will the Aeon device accommodate that range for outdoors?

 

Hook it up with a NiMH battery and a small solar cell stolen from a solar lamp sized to not cook the battery.

 

I'm not interested in winter temperatures only summer with a range of 50 to 90 F or 10 to 35 C.  Insteon TStats are almost the same price as the Aeon device, but I think I will go with the latter....

 

Only thing I don't like about the Aeon device is the need for CR123 batteries which can be more expensive and not usually a normal purchase for me...

 

Thanks

[larryllix]

I am glad you shared this Larry. Your hand on experience shows that Smarthome's advertising is clearly incorrect. I have a 2441zth (with dongle) that I use to monitor the interior temperature of a vacation home. I have programmed notifications for 0700 every morning and a low setpoint indicative of failure of the heating system. I was considering adding the waterproof sensor to my setup.

Heating failure should not be a problem. I use mine for that also. This assumes that you want to detect the temperature to avoid freeze ups of pipes etc. that can happen below 0 degrees C. 

 

For a small safety margin I assume your notifications are set to 4-6 degrees C,  in order  to give plenty of time to compensate with automatic heaters, or a human response, to the remote location. That works just fine with the Insteon thermostats 2441(Z)TH series.

 

 

Here is a previous thread regarding freezing temperature measurement.

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/15148-temperature/?hl=%2Bfreezing+%2B2441zth&do=findComment&comment=128502

[smokegrub]

Heating failure should not be a problem. I use mine for that also. This assumes that you want to detect the temperature to avoid freeze ups of pipes etc. that can happen below 0 degrees C. 

 

For a small safety margin I assume your notifications are set to 4-6 degrees C,  in order  to give plenty of time to compensate with automatic heaters, or a human response, to the remote location. That works just fine with the Insteon thermostats 2441(Z)TH series.

 

 

Here is a previous thread regarding freezing temperature measurement.

http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/15148-temperature/?hl=%2Bfreezing+%2B2441zth&do=findComment&comment=128502

 

Yes, for heating system failure I use 60 degrees for notification. That provides ample opportunity for someone located nearby to start the backup system. There are propane stoves in the house. The first, pilot lit, is in the same room as the thermostat. It only fails if the pilot is extinguished. The other stove is electronically ignited and is subject to failure with a power outage which is commonplace in the area. Thus, I use the pilot lit stove with the electronic stove as backup. I would love to find a way to have the electronically lit stove automatically relight following a power failure but I know of no way to do so. A manual press of an igniter button is required.

[Teken]

This was the first I found on their website. Website says now accepting pre-orders, so I thought it was not yet available...

This was offered more as a reference to the product. You can certainly purchase it elsewhere or where available for sale.

 

Let us know which solution you go with and the final outcome.

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

[PhanTomiZ]

You can't find a close enough weather station?

It may not be exact but should be good enough for thermostat play.

You would think that would be good enough...Who knows, maybe?  Then I would need the weather module, right?  

 

Anyhow, the idea that got this started was I wanted to fine tune my families air conditioner use.  Some too cold, some too hot.  If I could keep the temperature 3 degrees C less than the outside temperature, that would make all happy.  Somehow it works now manually.  When I get home from work the temperature has been changed by some family member and the differential seems to be around 3 C.  This works when it is between 28 and 32, but for 32 and above, I will use 5 to 8.  It's amazing how cool 30 C indoors is when it is 38 C outside with humidity...

 

Thanks for the idea

[paulbates]

You would think that would be good enough...Who knows, maybe?  Then I would need the weather module, right?  

 

Anyhow, the idea that got this started was I wanted to fine tune my families air conditioner use.  Some too cold, some too hot.  If I could keep the temperature 3 degrees C less than the outside temperature, that would make all happy.  Somehow it works now manually.  When I get home from work the temperature has been changed by some family member and the differential seems to be around 3 C.  This works when it is between 28 and 32, but for 32 and above, I will use 5 to 8.  It's amazing how cool 30 C indoors is when it is 38 C outside with humidity...

 

Thanks for the idea

 

Yes. The climate module cost would probably be close to or less than a complete sensor solution, and as pointed out is a reasonably close enough measurement if you have an airport or other reliable wx nearby. A good reporting station is key, though most get temp right.

 

I've used the climate module for AC anticipation like you're talking about. Its also helpful for sprinkler programs if you go that route for temp, wind and forecast.

 

Paul

[larryllix]

You would think that would be good enough...Who knows, maybe?  Then I would need the weather module, right?  

 

Anyhow, the idea that got this started was I wanted to fine tune my families air conditioner use.  Some too cold, some too hot.  If I could keep the temperature 3 degrees C less than the outside temperature, that would make all happy.  Somehow it works now manually.  When I get home from work the temperature has been changed by some family member and the differential seems to be around 3 C.  This works when it is between 28 and 32, but for 32 and above, I will use 5 to 8.  It's amazing how cool 30 C indoors is when it is 38 C outside with humidity...

 

Thanks for the idea

Temperature inside relative to outside always feels right when first entering abuilding but after sitting and cooling off for an hour the temperature becomes more critical.

 

Years ago, in another forum, a person reported using their thermostat as a low limit cut-out for their A/C and wired a humidistat in series with it. After some experience they claimed it worked very well and were quite impressed with the non-play comfort levels.. For the price of a humidistat it may be worth a try.

 

Our problem here in Ontario is the humidity gets so brutal, sometimes without enough heat.to make the AC run much. If you have your windows open until the humidity occasionally pops up it can be too late and you have at least one sweaty toss'n turn  night, with the A/C running all night, for sure. If the temperature drops the A/ is done and won't take it out then you have a few sweaty toss'n turn nights.

 

Where I am right now I see over a huge valley and when it gets into the summer 30 degrees++  (86-97F) you can't see to the other side for a light fog hanging in the air. What am I doing here?

[Teken]

You would think that would be good enough...Who knows, maybe?  Then I would need the weather module, right?  

 

Anyhow, the idea that got this started was I wanted to fine tune my families air conditioner use.  Some too cold, some too hot.  If I could keep the temperature 3 degrees C less than the outside temperature, that would make all happy.  Somehow it works now manually.  When I get home from work the temperature has been changed by some family member and the differential seems to be around 3 C.  This works when it is between 28 and 32, but for 32 and above, I will use 5 to 8.  It's amazing how cool 30 C indoors is when it is 38 C outside with humidity...

 

Thanks for the idea

 

How are you going to address or fix the human element? Unless you upgrade your TSTAT where the settings can be locked out using various tools or hardware won't change the outcome.

 

Everyone is different in terms of how they handle their environmental's.

 

Some people simply add a sweater, while others fire up a local heater, then there are others who putz around with the TSTAT. Ignoring the human element for a moment if the home is *drafty* or air exchange is high.

 

The first steps are to insure the buildings envelope is tight and well insulated from the elements. Not sure how old your house is or what kind of windows you have. Or what kind of temperatures you see in your local but addressing air exchange, leakage, and insulation are the basic's that must be addressed.

[PhanTomiZ]

Teken....As far as the human factor I believe my Insteon TStat can take care of that by using below... Sub- mode 07: Button lock (disables front button presses, OFF default) o For high-traffic common area locations, such as a business lobby. a. Up arrow = ON b. Down arrow = OFF • Sub- mode 08: Programming lock (locks out Set button programming operations, OFF default) a. Up arrow = ON b. Down arrow = OFF To try and make everyone happy will be a trial and error thing. Only have 2 complainers and 1 couldn't care less as he's a cave dweller and will add a sweater if he's cold...

[PhanTomiZ]

Temperature inside relative to outside always feels right when first entering abuilding but after sitting and cooling off for an hour the temperature becomes more critical.

 

Years ago, in another forum, a person reported using their thermostat as a low limit cut-out for their A/C and wired a humidistat in series with it. After some experience they claimed it worked very well and were quite impressed with the non-play comfort levels.. For the price of a humidistat it may be worth a try.

 

Our problem here in Ontario is the humidity gets so brutal, sometimes without enough heat.to make the AC run much. If you have your windows open until the humidity occasionally pops up it can be too late and you have at least one sweaty toss'n turn  night, with the A/C running all night, for sure. If the temperature drops the A/ is done and won't take it out then you have a few sweaty toss'n turn nights.

 

Where I am right now I see over a huge valley and when it gets into the summer 30 degrees++  (86-97F) you can't see to the other side for a light fog hanging in the air. What am I doing here?

I'm in Southern Ontario, just east of Toronto.   And yea, plenty of humidity on the north shore of Lake Ontario.

 

My A/C is usually up to the task of getting rid of all that humidity, but if the set point is set too low, then the compressor will not cycle and will run all day.  If what I plan works, it should keep the temperature set point high enough during the day and also get rid of humidity, while at night I can drop the set point to a level to keep me sleeping...

[PhanTomiZ]

Yes, for heating system failure I use 60 degrees for notification. That provides ample opportunity for someone located nearby to start the backup system. There are propane stoves in the house. The first, pilot lit, is in the same room as the thermostat. It only fails if the pilot is extinguished. The other stove is electronically ignited and is subject to failure with a power outage which is commonplace in the area. Thus, I use the pilot lit stove with the electronic stove as backup. I would love to find a way to have the electronically lit stove automatically relight following a power failure but I know of no way to do so. A manual press of an igniter button is required.

Wow!!!!  Never even thought about freezing temperatures which would be a real headache.  I'm glad I put out this inquiry and received many great responses and ideas.  I will now add to my program list a "Freezing Alert" program and send notifications if my temp reaches 50 degrees....

 

Thanks again....