ISY doesn't work, every device shows red ! and cannot communicate

[edokid]

Here's my latest update as I'll be out of town a few days so can't play with this.  I fought with this for hours last night couldn't figure it out.  I'd FINALLY get devices to link, they'd work for maybe 5 minutes no problem and then boom nothing would work.  So this morning before giving up, I went around the house and I unplugged every single thing there is, leaving just the router and ISY/PLM as well as HomeSeer this time in the basement (normally I have it in the living room).  Was using the new PLM and sure enough, everything starts linking and working without issue using HomeSeer down there.  So I thought lets try the ISY using my old PLM in the living room where it always was, so I plugged that in.  As soon as I plugged in the old PLM, HomeSeer wouldn't control any Insteon devices on the new PLM.  I unplug the old one, works instantly.  So was like the old one was causing problems I thought.

 

So I then removed all of HomeSeer, put the NEW PLM with the ISY in the living room, and absolutely nothing.  Devices won't link or do anything.  So I move it all back downstairs to the basement, connect the ISY and the new PLM and boom every single device adds right away and seems to work.  So I'm at a loss why one outlet suddenly doesn't work properly when it always did for 2 years.

 

Everything is adding except 1 LampLinc, it fails every single time says Cannot determine the device link table address and event viewer shows:

 

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:35 AM : Start Insteon Device Linking Mode

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:35 AM : [LNK-BGN     ] 02 64 01 00 06 

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:45 AM : [LNK-STAT    ] 02 53 M(01) gid=00 26.93.59 010E 41 

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:45 AM : [26.93.59 00] Linked device type=01.0E fw=41

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:45 AM : [26 93 59 0  ] Added to list of devices to link to ISY

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:45 AM : [LNK-BGN     ] 02 64 01 00 06 

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:52 AM : Stop Insteon Device Linking Mode, Final processing to follow

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:52 AM : [LNK-END     ] 02 65 06 

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:52 AM : [std MH      ] Unexpected Ack imCmd=65 cmd1= 0x59

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:52 AM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 26 93 59 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:52 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 26.93.59 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:52 AM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 26.93.59 34.E7.6B 2F 0D 02           (02)

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:52 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 26.93.59-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:57 AM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 26 93 59 0F 0D 00

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:57 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 26.93.59 0F 0D 00 06                 (00)

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:57 AM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 26.93.59 34.E7.6B 2F 0D 02           (02)

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:57 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 26.93.59-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:57 AM : [26 93 59 0  ] Calibrating engine version

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:57 AM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 26 93 59 1F 2F 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:57 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 26.93.59 1F 2F 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0 06        (00)

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:58 AM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 26.93.59 34.E7.6B 2F 2F 00           (00)

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:58 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 26.93.59-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:58 AM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 26.93.59 34.E7.6B 23 2F 00           (00)

Mon 09/07/2015 11:08:58 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 26.93.59-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

Mon 09/07/2015 11:09:07 AM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 26 93 59 1F 2F 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0

Mon 09/07/2015 11:09:07 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 26.93.59 1F 2F 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0 06        (00)

Mon 09/07/2015 11:09:07 AM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 26.93.59 34.E7.6B 2F 2F 00           (00)

Mon 09/07/2015 11:09:07 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 26.93.59-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

Mon 09/07/2015 11:09:16 AM : [iNST-TX-I2CS] 02 62 26 93 59 1F 2F 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0

Mon 09/07/2015 11:09:16 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 26.93.59 1F 2F 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0 06        (00)

Mon 09/07/2015 11:09:17 AM : [iNST-SRX    ] 02 50 26.93.59 34.E7.6B 2F 2F 00           (00)

Mon 09/07/2015 11:09:17 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 26.93.59-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

Mon 09/07/2015 11:09:21 AM : [26 93 59 0  ] Failed to add device, reason 9

Mon 09/07/2015 11:09:21 AM : [All         ] Writing 0 bytes to devices

Mon 09/07/2015 11:09:21 AM : [All         ] Writing 0 bytes to devices

[Teken]

I think you really need to step back and take a long pause as you're causing yourself all kinds of grief. Lets start with some basics which you should follow and confirm as you proceed.

 

At this very moment it really makes no difference what state your Insteon / Z-Wave network is in. Given you have gone back and forth, reset, removed, what ever.

 

1. Ensure the 2413S PLM is plugged into a outlet void of any other noise makers / signal suckers like computers, UPS, cell chargers, etc.

 

2. Ensure the ISY Series Controller is plugged into a good power supply and all cables leading to and from the unit are firm and fully inserted.

 

3. Confirm the Insteon network is properly bridged / coupled via the QSG for the 2413S PLM. Provide the results of conducting this test as you walk around the home.

 

4a. Is the outlet you are having issues with powered by a GFCI / AFCI breaker / outlet? If so remove the breaker - outlet with a standard one and see if it operates as expected.

 

4b. Unless this outlet is a dedicated circuit as is common for fridge, sump, GDO, etc. You can not assume its alone and nothing else is on the same circuit. Please verify nothing else is on this circuit and as you did above unplug all devices in the home. If that problem outlet operates now.

 

All you need to do is simply add (1) single item until such time as the Insteon / Z-Wave network starts acting up. This is not only methodical but focused trouble shooting instead of just running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

 

5. You need to be honest with yourself and think about what possible changes have occurred over the last year. It doesn't matter if its a toaster, coffee machine, hair dryer, etc. Keeping in mind every piece of electronics from your fridge, stove, dish washer, dryer, etc do age and things start to break.

 

When this happens 9 times out of 10 they start splitting out noise . . .

 

Have you added in any new LED / CFL bulbs?? If so take them out and try it with normal incandescent bulbs to help identify root cause.

 

The biggest problem I have seen over the 387 Insteon installs I have personally done is that given the pervasive amount of dual band devices. What normally would be a cut and dry / black and white problem - issue.

 

Is a marginal system that is teetering on breaking down or shows its ugly head at very random moments etc. Meaning either your system has been a complete mess from the very start and the dual band capability has simply masked the issue. Its only when something extra or small has been added the real status is seen.

 

Follow the steps outlined above and report back what your findings are. You need to stop bouncing around with random things because its adding more work, stress, and holes in the system.

 

None of this is rocket science but you do need to be methodical and focused at the task at hand to be successful.

[edokid]

I decided instead to just stick with Z-Wave as I think it's easier as once I lose trust in something it's hard to get it back.  I really mean it when I say absolutely nothing has changed in the past week to suddenly make it go from 100% functional, to completely dead.  We are barely home since this is a 2nd residence for us, so when I say nothing has changed, it really hasn't.  Like I said, I went around and unplugged every single thing in the house except the router, PLM, and ISY so that I could try that.  It still gives the same issues.  I've put the PLM on one wall outlet with a LampLinc connected to the exact same one, tried to directly link them as well as through the ISY and they both just flash.  Even 2 SwitchLinc's in the same 2 gang box won't link together, they just flash green.  Then an hour later I try the same thing and boom links instantly.

 

It's been 2 years, zero problems and then overnight almost nothing works.  The only issues I've had before were that sometimes a device on the 3rd floor wouldn't link if it was RF only, but then I'd remember it's because it's RF only, and would switch it to like a LampLinc and it would work fine.  

 

I've only ever had the PLM on one of 2 outlets, the living room or the basement.  It was always in the basement until I got a Garage IO Linc which wouldn't work or link, so moved the PLM to the living room and it did right away, so that's how it has remained for 2 years no problems.  So now to have that outlet not work at all and only have it work when it's back in the basement is totally random.  Right now everything works except that one LampLinc, but I didn't even do anything to make it work.  It will work fine for an hour, responding every time.  Then suddenly nothing works.  Little while later it starts working again.  Nothing is running, I've even turned off tons of breakers like for the AC and other devices in case it wasn't working when it was on, even though I know that's not the case as it's not like this is the first time the AC has been on.

 

The reason I just don't trust Insteon anymore is because in those 2 years, I bet every device I have has moved at least 2-3 times when I change things around, and I've never had a problem.  So to suddenly over night have the whole network die without me doing anything makes no sense.  The only possible thing could be something plugged into an outlet, as I haven't changed any switches or anything physical, but as mentioned I unplugged every single device there is in the house.  

 

I just can't stress enough that nothing changed.  We were out of town, everything fine, then half way through being away the ISY starts saying every Insteon device is not responding which is what started this all.  When I was told it was the PLM on here, I bought a new one as unless you bought it from Smarthome directly they won't help you with warranty as they told me to return it back to them in the US and buy another from them which isn't going to happen so bought one on Amazon locally and it does the same thing.  So I really mean it when I say no one just plugged something in which messed it up.  But at the end of the day, if someone can plug in their iPhone and it takes out the whole network, then that's not reliable enough for me.  So I don't know, I've wasted so many days tweaking this and trying to make it work that this whole weekend was blown doing it.  As much as I want it to work I just can't spend hours every day on it, it's just a huge money pit.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi edokid,

 

It seems that your unit is taken out of the trash? If so, please - and I urge you - to contact our support so that we can figure out why you have all these problems. It's just not efficient to debug over the forum.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[edokid]

Thanks Michel I'll contact them when I get home, out of town for a couple weeks now so will try it again then.  I'm tempted to remove EVERY Insteon device I have and start from scratch one at a time, since as Teken said it might have been bad for a long time and only became an issue recently.   Just a pain since I have so many devices, but at least that way I can troubleshoot with your support people with only the PLM and 1 SwitchLinc installed vs 20 of them in case one is causing problems.

 

LeeG, not sure what you're referring to unless that message isn't for me, as you just highlighted something in red and said it wasn't providing the expected message, which I already know since the device won't link.  So not sure what exactly that was helping me with other than confirming what I already knew.  I posted those logs more for the UDI support people that use this to see if it helps explain anything as I thought these forums were the only way to get support from UDI.  While help is appreciated, no one asked you to analyze anything of mine.

[chuck_b]

I am troubleshooting the same exact issue. I could see the PLM connected but couldn't communicate with *any* device on my power network. I replaced my PLM. Moved to a different outlet/s, etc. I have not done any upgrades. I have only done the Replace PLM procedure and swapped the various physical components around.

 

At the moment, I am finally able to make some progress... by replacing the cable between the PLM and the ISY. I am still in a different outlet on a different circuit, but it is finally able to query status, change On/Off and is in the process of writing the 'Replace PLM' commands to the devices as I type.

 

Hopefully the good progress will continue and I can move the ISY/PLM back to its original location with the new cable between them. The original PLM does seem like it was bad since I tried it with the new cable first. I'm not going to complain about a PLM lasting 4+ years.

 

With any luck, edokid's problem is something as simple as a bad cable between the PLM/ISY that let's it know the PLM exists but not actually communicate properly with it.

[automateit]

I have what I believe to be the same problem after a power failure last evening. 

Could someone post an easy to find troubleshooting list in the Wiki?

[LeeG]

automateit

 

Not sure where all these steps are in the Wiki.

 

Remove power from ISY and PLM.  Restore power to PLM first, wait 30 seconds and apply power to ISY.

 

If not able to communicate with devices does Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Info/Status show PLM as connected and the firmware of PLM?  If this info is correct there is basic serial comm with PLM.

 

Next step would be File | Restore Modem (PLM) to rebuild PLM link database.  NEVER issue Delete Modem (PLM).

 

If there is no device comm at this point I would suspect a PLM failure.

[GuitarBuilder]

Please forgive the necropost - I found this while searching for solutions to my PLM that suddenly stopped working.  I found the post helpful and was able to restore connections after several PLM and ISY reboots.  However, I did not restore my faith in Smarthome products.

 

I've owned Smarthome products ever since the X10 days and have suffered many device failures over the years.  For whatever reasons the reliability is not great.  Now this may have been acceptable back then when all we were doing was turning lamps on and off.

 

The ISY has opened the door to full home automation, which is fantastic.  The problem is that the Insteon devices still operate on decades-old technology and do not exhibit the reliability necessary for full home automation.  Once I tie in home security, camera systems, etc., a failure in the system becomes mission-critical.  Such is the case when a PLM (the weakest link in the system) either fails or stops working.  What if I'm traveling and I'm not near the device to troubleshoot it?  Suddenly this "high-tech" home becomes extremely vulnerable.

 

I really sympathize with edokid in this post.  The folks on this forum who enjoy tinkering with and troubleshooting their home automation systems are an exception, not the rule.  The average home owner wants a 100% reliable solution that is easy to use, like a typical appliance.  Nobody wants to spend their Saturday morning trying to figure out why all the programs stopped working.

 

I encourage Michel and company to continue to expand the integration of ISY with other products as they have done with Zigbee, Z-wave, etc.  Insteon belongs in the museum at this point as far as I'm concerned.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi GuitarBuilder,

 

With regards to your last statement: we sure are!

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[ggdowski]

I have read this thread 2 or 3 times over the last few years.  It comes up every time I have a random failure for a device to communicate.  I have similar problems with z-wave devices.  One day they work, the next day they fail to communicate.  I have 4 shades in our bedroom.   All worked yesterday, now one does not want to communicate.   The wife is annoyed the shade won't go down....    I can go through the include exclude process.   But having it work one day and then having to fix it for no apparent reason is frustrating.  An annoyed wife is even worse.

[ggdowski]

To make this adventure more fun.... I have two shades tied to a scene.

Last night the right shade wasn't communicating with the ISY.

 

This morning the right shade is working fine and now the left one isn't communicating.

[oberkc]

I have read this thread 2 or 3 times over the last few years.  It comes up every time I have a random failure for a device to communicate.  I have similar problems with z-wave devices.  One day they work, the next day they fail to communicate.  I have 4 shades in our bedroom.   All worked yesterday, now one does not want to communicate.   The wife is annoyed the shade won't go down....    I can go through the include exclude process.   But having it work one day and then having to fix it for no apparent reason is frustrating.  An annoyed wife is even worse.

I am curious...how many z-wave devices do you have in total, and how far apart are the nearest from the shades?

[dbuss]

I have read this thread 2 or 3 times over the last few years.  It comes up every time I have a random failure for a device to communicate.  I have similar problems with z-wave devices.  One day they work, the next day they fail to communicate.  I have 4 shades in our bedroom.   All worked yesterday, now one does not want to communicate.   The wife is annoyed the shade won't go down....    I can go through the include exclude process.   But having it work one day and then having to fix it for no apparent reason is frustrating.  An annoyed wife is even worse.

Have you attempted to heal your Z-Wave network? Have you rune an diagnosis to see what neighbors each of your Z-Wave devices have? Your symptoms are that of a weak RF signal. Healing your network and/or adding more Z-Wave devices that repeat the signal should improve the signal quality so that you have consistent communications.