Presence Sensing

[MWoods329]

Has anyone checked out https://www.xandem.com/ ?

It seems like such a simple concept that there must be a way to replicate it, right?

 

 

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[larryllix]

Looks pretty cool once they get it working.

 

The video really missed an opportunity to turn the lights off automatically but hung on the guy flipping all the switches. They did mention to tie it into an HA system though.

[stusviews]

Tomography has been around since the mid-50's, but didn't take off until the advent of computers and the appropriate software. The XANDEM most likely uses ultrasound transmission tomography. So yes, there is a way to replicate it

[larryllix]

The way they describe it as "link disruptions", it has to be very directional, implying high frequency.

 

The animation shows people as disrupting the signal between sensors.

 

Whatever the sensing frequency method it must be hard to detect human body through drywall and hardwood furniture. Possibly by change detection only.

 

I am basically getting the same result with 10 MS units and creating tracking records except for multiple people moving can confuse the process more. I would bet the multiple person sensing is also giving them some trouble for analysis.

[stusviews]

Tomographic techniques can penetrate solid objects, much like X-rays, even more so. Moving objects are not an obstacle. CT and CAT scans are examples of tomography. C=computerized, A=Axial, T=tomography

[Teken]

I am unsure why people insist upon stating such devices are great security devices after the fact?!?! The over all goal of security / force protection is to prevent an intrusion from happening at all.

 

These sort of devices are very well suited for presence detection but are not any different than those dual tech sensors already in place and being used all over the world now.

 

Microwave / IR sensors have been deployed for years and also penetrate solid objects with out issue. The only distinction this device has is that a (App) is doing the logic and data analysis to provide the so called tracking.

 

Analytic's have been used for more than 15 years in the security camera industry alone. They can detect if an object is present or not, what direction an object is moving and the rate of speed. It can also determine if there is a flow of people are all moving in one direction and all of the sudden a random person or object moves in a different route / direction.

 

The software also can define the size, shape, width, and count.

 

The most amazing aspect of current analytic's is that it can determine which objects are NOT  a like. The famous child school song *Which one of these kids don't belong*?

 

IE. The system can determine say in China / Japan where the gross average height of a person is 5'4". If a random white man was to be in the FOV of the camera the system would immediately capture, track, and record face, body, height, etc. Along with rate of speed how hot or cold that persons body was etc.

 

Regardless of the above its good to see new technology trickle down to the general public even if its being over stated. It always amuses me to see new electronic gadgets that are sold as security devices to protect the home.

 

When all it is a a little box that makes noise and flashes a little light? This is just one of many of the *All in one* security devices being hocked at the stores: http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/guardzilla-guardzilla-wireless-security-system-gz502b-black-gz502b/10374445.aspx?path=0367742624612d290892805b5a560f3aen02

 

Security is about prevention not reaction as the primary method or goal . . . People are willing to spend thousands of dollars on lights, switches, etc. But never take any time to harden entry points or the actual infrastructure of the buildings envelope.

 

Security is about the 4 rings of protection and sadly 99% of the populace only use one. 

 

[larryllix]

I guess your background taints your bias as to what you see. With my quick and biased look at the website I mostly saw HA applications and your (Teken's) view sees security as the grandstand item.

 

Having said that my viewpoint is, less MSes will do the same job and we see yours above. I knew I should have installed many more receptacles in my house! OTOH: I can't afford the higher electricity rates. (He's says looking up the mountain )

 

We are getting a little off-topic here but I remember a relative of mine getting a baby-monitor and grumbling that the distance was not that great. Oh, it would reach all the corners of the house OK but it wouldn't go far enough to work properly while he water-skiied on the lake behind his house.

 

Putting it another way, technology is great but just because it is high-tech does not mean it is always good. I all this abuse of technology. KISS really wins out some times. Buy more "Warning - protected by ISY994i" stickers for your windows.

[Teken]

I guess your background taints your bias as to what you see. With my quick and biased look at the website I mostly saw HA applications and your (Teken's) view sees security as the grandstand item.

 

Having said that my viewpoint is, less MSes will do the same job and we see yours above. I knew I should have installed many more receptacles in my house! OTOH: I can't afford the higher electricity rates. (He's says looking up the mountain )

 

We are getting a little off-topic here but I remember a relative of mine getting a baby-monitor and grumbling that the distance was not that great. Oh, it would reach all the corners of the house OK but it wouldn't go far enough to work properly while he water-skiied on the lake behind his house.

 

Putting it another way, technology is great but just because it is high-tech does not mean it is always good. I all this abuse of technology. KISS really wins out some times. Buy more "Warning - protected by ISY994i" stickers for your windows.

 

Well my formal back ground does give me some insight and perhaps I am just a little jaded. After watching this alternate video its clear to me this company is over reaching and over stating how this sensor array operates and works.

 

In the following video there are key things he has indicated which not only are plain false but absolutely not based on any facts.

 

Video link here: 

 

In one statement he says since this security device was installed not one break in or attempted break in has occurred? Really how is that?

 

Is this sensor array magically stopping a person from entering the premises? Is it alerting the thief there is some kind of new tech on site that will vaporize them should they enter the building?

 

No?

 

A $1.00 sign would alert and inform a person a building / structure was monitored and secured by some kind of security alarm system. Next, a well trained guard dog provides and offers more reactive force and deterrence then any strobe light / siren.

 

In his next sentence he indicates someone could and has cut open a door panel of the wall or entered from a window? Really, a standard glass sensor, dual tech microwave / PIR unit would not have detected a person?

 

As the video goes on I was very pleased to actually see what matters the most and that is the spread and attack time this unit operates. You will notice when he moves behind the box's there is a huge delay of 6-7 seconds from the time the hand held device turns red. You will also see when he tries to *creep* to the little motor that again the spread pattern and attack time is 7-8 seconds long before his friends hand held device indicates movement.

 

In the next portion he indicates how great the system is while he is outside and literally walks more than 10 feet and takes almost 5 seconds for the hand held device to trip and indicate a breach?

 

Really, fail . . .

 

The system and sensors I use and deploy would not allow any object to move 2 inches, never mind an attack time of 5-8 seconds before it tripped. Any company worth their salt would be using the highest quality sensors that are fine tuned and digital balanced to compensate for temperature and humidity.

 

I am not sure if their intent of showing off how the sensor is not affected by dust, dirt, what ever while just sitting there is their idea of a professional install. But, I know for a fact they would have been thrown out the building if that was their sales pitch to me or anyone in the industry.

 

All devices must be properly secured in a manner where the device and its wiring harness can not be interrupted. That hack of wiring with gobs of musty tape was their idea of an install WTF??

 

I am sure there is no EOL resistor, no back up battery, and pretty sure there is no tamper on this toy. Never mind any method to report back its health and condition. Which are all standard  issue in even the cheapest alarm system on the market.

 

I didn't even bother checking if this device complies with any Security UL / cUL, or EN 50131 certification. If I was a betting man I would wager 100% no given the videos I just watched.

 

Lastly, if the obvious was not made clear no UL / cUL security device is allowed to be summarily plugged into a wall outlet, none. I am not sure what market or persons this is being directed to but its obviously not to the professional, Enterprise, Military, Police, Hospital, Banks, or any facility that requires real threat detection.

 

Not sure what this company is asking for per sensor but lets say its $25.XX which I am sure it isn't. Ten of these would set you back how much?

 

$250.XX and what is going to happen when the power goes out?

 

The only pro's I have seen in this product is that its a easy method to plug in *something* where you wish to monitor some kind of movement. Don't even get me going about how it operates in extreme temperatures because I am sure it isn't rated to operate in -40'C weather etc. 

[larryllix]

Yup, have to agree with you on most of those points.

 

The unit shown looked like POE running it so that could be UPSed.

 

When the guy was bending over it didn't seem to trigger the system until he stood up. I doubt these things are very directional and the beams are a figment of their hype. Looks more like detection of waveform phase shift encountered when reflections of an RF waveform reflection pattern changes.

 

It appears to have been successful in this instance due to solving their problem...internal theft. Anything may have worked including a MS at one end with a rumoured range of 200 feet. Of course you have to run siren checks when all the employees are there to hear it.

[stusviews]

A security system decision relies on deciding what you need/want to protect. Is it person protection the priority or is it property preservation? Or both? If the former, then you need, repeat need to follow Teken's advice and protect the premises from forced entry. An alarm becomes secondary, but not optional.

 

Most people are not in that situation.