ISY994iZW For Commercial Application

[Amigo]

Good evening, new user to z-wave world.

Wanted to know if you folks have used ISY in small commercial automation applications? vs home automation.

I have a small school, 15K sqf, will have about 15 z-wave thermostats, either honeywell or RCS.  

Will make the tstats are all powered, with c-wire.

Wanted to know if you guys can point any common pitfalls I should watch out for?

 

I have not used ISY or z-wave for that matter, but I am quite experienced from large commercial automation applications, where mostly wired protocols are used.

 

I want to give z-wave and ISY a try because it seems to be a very good fit for smaller commercial applications. Or may be it is much more capable than that?

 

All input is welcomed.

 

Thank you,

Amigo 

[Teken]

Good evening, new user to z-wave world.

Wanted to know if you folks have used ISY in small commercial automation applications? vs home automation.

I have a small school, 15K sqf, will have about 15 z-wave thermostats, either honeywell or RCS.  

Will make the tstats are all powered, with c-wire.

Wanted to know if you guys can point any common pitfalls I should watch out for?

 

I have not used ISY or z-wave for that matter, but I am quite experienced from large commercial automation applications, where mostly wired protocols are used.

 

I want to give z-wave and ISY a try because it seems to be a very good fit for smaller commercial applications. Or may be it is much more capable than that?

 

All input is welcomed.

 

Thank you,

Amigo 

 

Hello Amigo,

 

As you stated most commercial installs use hardwired solutions as there is less acceptance of a missed operation. The first time a person has to press on a switch 9999999999 times your phone will ring off the hook. The first time a person notices that he / she has to wait 3-7 seconds for something to happen.

 

You guessed it your phone will be ringing off the hook . . .

 

Most schools are brick, cinder block, and any other dense material not common in a residential space. You will be hard pressed to over come RF communications with Z-Wave. Speaking for myself only we have used Insteon in commercial applications with great success due to the dual band nature provided by the hardware.

 

One facility is 350, 000 sq ft, four others are much smaller about 48, 000 square feet. Keeping in mind no site ever tries to turn on a light clear across the building from one end to the other.

 

Ha . . .

 

We have tried and it does work but my point is expectations must be set and realistic. Most installs are room by room and have adjacent supporting hardware. If your intent is to use the ISY you may find executing programs through cinder block next to impossible. I personally would not deploy the controller in this sort of environment as the outcome will not be very positive and it would reflect badly on the controller when the problem is RF limitations.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Amigo,

 

We did in fact use Z-Wave in a larger commercial venue but had to use one for each floor and include between 3 to 5 range extenders per each floor.

 

We also had a much larger project in NY using over 200 Z-Wave battery operated sensors but we had to use 2 per floor with 10 or more range extenders per each ISY.

 

So, definitely doable but requires range extenders and planning especially if you think the school might change the location of file cabinets, etc.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Amigo]

Thanks for your input guys.

The school is a prefab building, so no brick and mordar, wood side paneling with drywall inside.

The school is one floor/single storey.

I am gonna keep the system fairly simple and restrict to z-wave thermostats only, about 15 units. So reasonable delay should be acceptable.

I am thinking ISY will really only be doing scheduling and trending primarily, and occasional setpoint changes through user interface otherwise most functions are done via the thermostats' touch screen.

 

@Michel, when you say you used multiple ISY units, is there a way to bridge the units?, so the end user sees the user interface as one whole system?

The location of file cabinets? I assume you mean if they put a metal file cabinet in front of the sensor?

 

What are some of the most commonly used/recommended range extenders?

 

I have no familiarity at all with Insteon, but I hear it is a single source devices, which I am not a big fan of.

Zigbee may be another option but I am not aware too many Zigbee Thermostats.

 

Does ISY support any particular Wifi TStats, should I decide to explore that option as well?

 

Cheers,

Amigo

[Teken]

Hello Amigo,

 

I wanted to clarify the 994 Series Controller can only support one hardware upgrade of either Z-Wave / ZigBee. If using ZigBee the current platform is more geared toward energy management and does support one ZigBee TSTAT from RCS which is the TZB45U.

 

The 994 Series Controller does not currently support any of the other ZigBee profiles such as HA, Security, etc.

 

Therefore its clear if you wish to go down the Z-Wave route you would be able to incorporate a hybrid environment that best suites your environment and use case.

 

By default the 994 Series Controller supports Insteon / X-10 protocols. Installing the Z-Wave hardware would allow you to use any of the three based on your needs.

 

Many of us are indeed on the same page about Insteon being a single source vendor. But the reality is I don't for see this ever changing in the short term. Having said that, to be fair to Smartlabs they have been in the Home Automation business for more than ten years with Insteon.

 

They continue to grow the product line and is literally the only vendor that has taken on user feed back in creating new products based on the *Wish List* in their respective forum(s).

 

Going the route of Z-Wave offers lots more choices and vendors along with pricing. But, based on my reviews and first hand experience there is more Z-Wave junk on the market than actual solid products.

 

Smartlabs has a pretty good compliment of devices in their offerings and many more are in the works. I would not cross them off the list simply based on being a single source vendor. Trust me, this is coming from a guy who literally can't stand that kind of service model!

[Amigo]

Thank you, yes I will be sure not rule out any reasonable possibility.

I think Z-wave/Insteon is probably the way to go.

I know for this being the first job, I know I will have challenges, I am just trying make as much informed decisions as I can.

 

Are the onboard scheduling details of z-wave or insteon thermostat exposed in ISY and can be manipulated via ISY scheduling interface, or does this all require coding, not that I am afraid of coding. I want to be sure a more advanced end user has a easy to use scheduling interface.

 

cheers,

Amigo

[Teken]

Thank you, yes I will be sure not rule out any reasonable possibility.

I think Z-wave/Insteon is probably the way to go.

I know for this being the first job, I know I will have challenges, I am just trying make as much informed decisions as I can.

 

Are the onboard scheduling details of z-wave or insteon thermostat exposed in ISY and can be manipulated via ISY scheduling interface, or does this all require coding, not that I am afraid of coding. I want to be sure a more advanced end user has a easy to use scheduling interface.

 

cheers,

Amigo

 

I do believe both protocols offer a user basic TSTAT control etc. As you correctly stated more advanced scheduling requires programming which by no stretch of the imagination is very complex. It only becomes complex when there are more conditions being required.

 

Also, in case you're not aware UDI has been hard at work on their next generation of firmware code. Which is aptly called 5.XX to designate this new platform which opens many more use cases and interaction with devices and 3rd party hosted services.

 

The 994 Series Controller by default uses the tried and true 4.XX branch of firmware which has evolved over the years and is quite stable.

 

At some point in time the 994 Series Controller will surely be migrated to use as the default OS as 5.XX branch.

[Amigo]

Ok, thank you.

Is 5.xx in beta or are we talking months before release?

Does 5.xx also address a migration to HTML5 or such for the console interface?

 

cheers,

Amigo

[Teken]

Ok, thank you.

Is 5.xx in beta or are we talking months before release?

Does 5.xx also address a migration to HTML5 or such for the console interface?

 

cheers,

Amigo

 

5.XX firmware is already in Beta trials but I would not suggest you use this for a live deployment at this juncture. 5.XX is also supposed to move to supporting HTML5 at a much longer time frame with no solid ETA.

 

As Java will ultimately be dropped which many of us simply can't wait for this to happen quick enough!

 

You can read more about the current release of 5.XX here: http://forum.universal-devices.com/forum/108-50/

[Amigo]

Ok thank you, will take a look.

Meanwhile if someone could recommend some most commonly used/reliable range extenders for z-wave, that would be great.

 

cheers,

Amigo

[Teken]

Ok thank you, will take a look.

Meanwhile if someone could recommend some most commonly used/reliable range extenders for z-wave, that would be great.

 

cheers,

Amigo

 

This device has proven to work for lots of people using Z-Wave: http://aeotec.com/z-wave-siren

[Amigo]

Thank you.

 

I could not readily see the h/w specs for isy994izw, where can I find that?

I assume people are loading 5.xx on existing h/w, is there also plans by UDI to offer a next gen of h/w?

 

cheers.

[paulbates]

Amigo

 

Thank you.

 

I could not readily see the h/w specs for isy994izw, where can I find that? 

http://www.universal-devices.com/residential/isy994izw-series/

You'll want the pro version.

 

I assume people are loading 5.xx on existing h/w, is there also plans by UDI to offer a next gen of h/w?

Correct on 5.0. Keep in mind that 5.0 is beta. I'm using 5, there are a few things to fix but they're minor and all have had workarounds for me.

 

Multichannel zwave is not there yet. You'll want to be sure that the zwave devices you want will work with the ISY.

 

I'm sure there are plans for newer controller HW, but I have not seen hints of it on the immediate future.

 

I would think about how imminent your deployment plans are. If sooner, probably start with the latest version of v4, and migrate once 5.0 and multichannel zwave gets implemented and tested by the group here. 

 

Paul

[Amigo]

Thank you.

I am sorry I should have been more clear, by h/w spec, I mean things like CPU, RAM, etc. I can not easily find that for ISY?,

And certainly I am fine with getting isy994izw pro version if that would be the recommendation.

 

Another couple of questions:

what mobile interfaces/apps are available for isy that you guys commonly use?

Is there a plugin where a google calendar can be used to trigger variables/events/scenes?

 

cheers,

Amigo

[Teken]

Thank you.

I am sorry I should have been more clear, by h/w spec, I mean things like CPU, RAM, etc. I can not easily find that for ISY?,

And certainly I am fine with getting isy994izw pro version if that would be the recommendation.

 

Another couple of questions:

what mobile interfaces/apps are available for isy that you guys commonly use?

Is there a plugin where a google calendar can be used to trigger variables/events/scenes?

 

cheers,

Amigo

 

Hello Amigo,

 

I would say a percentage of users have in place the Mobilinc Application: http://forum.universal-devices.com/forum/35-mobilinc/Another forum member has been so kind and offered a FREE very basic but useful iOS application located here:  http://forum.universal-devices.com/forum/107-ctrlhome/

 

I don't have any first hand knowledge about integrating Google calender's with the 994 Series Controller but know several forum members have created a *Calendar* program for those to use which is docked in the UDI WiKI section located here: http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

 

With respect to the actual hardware of the 994 Series Controller Michel from UDI will need to chime in and offer that insight. Essentially the 994 is a extremely low power (less than 4 watts) self contained micro computer that is extremely efficient and runs on a low clock rate and memory.

 

If you're asking if its a quad core 3.2 , 16 GB RAM, etc no not even close . . .  

[larryllix]

¡Hola Amigo!  Bienvenido.

 

If you can place the Zwave antenna in a central location of the building the signals should be able to reach most devices, I would think. 15K sf is not too large of an area with a preferred placement. I am not familiar with the reach of Zwave signals but from what I understand you should not need too many repeaters depending on where the antenna can be mounted.

 

Too support Teken's response, MobiLinc is the one that most use. It is available for iOS and Android systems. I use the Android version.  From forum posts I understand the iOS version has any more features than the Android version, but the Android version is being worked on for updates.

[stusviews]

I found a need to a Gen5 siren to get a Z-Wave lock to communicate reliably to an ISY less that 30' from the lock. I tried both the internal and external antennas. Moving the lock a few feet closer by opening the door helped, but is not workable solution. .A Gen 5 Z-Wave siren/repeater solved the problem. Other Z-Wave users posted similar difficulties. BTW, the lock is the one I chose over others and would do it again.

[Amigo]

Thanks guys.

I will wait for Michel to chime in about h/w specs.

Will try MobiLinc once I order my first ISY.

 

What is the preffered method of purchase for ISY for you guys?, direct from UDI or through places like amazon that seem to have reduced pricing:

http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Devices-IR-Automation-Controller/dp/B00MDVW7HS

 

Does Insteon require a separate add on adapter or is that builtin the ISY?

 

As far as Calendar(holidays) and Schedules that is probably one of the most important and most often used feature/interface that the school staff would need. So I have to dig into how schedules and holiday calendars are coded in ISY, and see if I can make it easily usable for reception staff.

I have done many similar, larger projects where we used hardwired commercial automation protocols like Modbus, BACnet, etc., and some of systems used provide interfaces so google or outlook calendar or similar can be used and it makes it very slick.

 

cheers,

Amigo

[Teken]

I would purchase it where ever it's cheaper. The 994 Series Controller by default supports Insteon and X-10 which is included and does not require you to purchase anything else. The X-10 module you may have read about is simply to allow you to see the devices as nodes in the device tree.

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

[stusviews]

Currently, dates are coded by day, month and year. A beta version allows coding by day and month.

[larryllix]

....

 

Does Insteon require a separate add on adapter or is that builtin the ISY?

....

Yes the ISY994 requires a PLM (power line modem) to connect to the world.

 

I purchased the cheapest ISY994 and added firmware module enables later avoiding many taxes in Canada etc,,

These are purchased from right inside the ISY self installing Admin Console.

 

Edit: A PLM is not required if Insteon and/or X10 control is not required.

[Amigo]

I am sorry guys, I am a bit confused.

Does ISY994iZW/IR PRO, do I need to purchase a separate PLM module for Insteon or is that builtin?

If I do need to purchase a PLM module, which model should I get because I read elsewhere in the forums and some models fail after a year or so.

 

cheers,

Amigo

[larryllix]

I am sorry guys, I am a bit confused.

Does ISY994iZW/IR PRO, do I need to purchase a separate PLM module for Insteon or is that builtin?

If I do need to purchase a PLM module, which model should I get because I read elsewhere in the forums and some models fail after a year or so.

 

cheers,

Amigo

Yes. All models need a PLM for Insteon and X10 signals. The ISY has a serial port on it that adapts to a PLM converting the signals to Insteon and X10. PLM Version 2.0 and newer have the more reliable capacitors installed inside them.

 

However, a Zwave board can be installed inside the ISY and if only Zwave is required then  no PLM is required. You have the model with the Zwave board installed from the part number stated.

 

Pro is a firmware switch that can be purchased later. This enables more programs and device quantities as well as some security upgrades.. Network module and X10 are the same enable process. This is all available from within the ISY to purchase directly from UDI. They supply a downloaded key to enable features after the financials are done.

[Amigo]

Ok, that clears it up for me.

So to start, I will only have low number of devices, probably <30 if range extenders count, so I don't really see the need for the PRO upgrade.

I will need to have both z-wave and Insteon, in case site conditions force me towards a hybrid system.

So I think I am good to go with a ISY994iZw + a PLM version2.0+

I assume this will do the trick for PLM:

http://www.amazon.com/Insteon-2413S-PowerLinc-Dual-Band-Interface/dp/B002X8W4SI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447996834&sr=8-1&keywords=PLM

 

is there a special serial cable needed to plug PLM into ISY?

 

Thank you.

Amigo

[stusviews]

All cables are provided with the ISY. You may want to use a longer Cat5 than the included cables. Keep the cable between the ISY and the PLM to no more that 6 or so feet. The cable between the router and ISY can be longer. You can add the Z-Wave module later. The ISY requires an external power supply. Some ISYs include the power supply.