In-wall temperature sensors

[builderb]

I know a lot of us use 1wire sensors, and struggle with how to put them where they need to be without standing out or looking bad. I ran across these in my internet browsing. I haven't actually tried them myself, but I don't see any reason they wouldn't work.

 

http://www.tempsensing.com/sensors/1wire-temperature-sensor-flushmnt.php

 

 

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[io_guy]

I just build them into an RJ45 male connector and snap them into the wall in my media ports.

[builderb]

I like that these are flush when installed. And paintable. I prefer the minimalist look, whenever possible.

 

 

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[Teken]

I've seen that product way back in the day and it was going to be my go too product. But, given the price per sensor it was a no go for me along with the fact this would not give you a true ambient room temperature.

 

The fact the probe is flush mounted in the wall would negate those looking for accuracy. I researched this extensively in my own home and the outcome for me was that many walls showed a mean variance of 2-8 degrees.

 

That was a no go . . .

 

In my install I used existing central vacuum plate covers and mounted the sensors in them. To help isolate the sensors from the cover plate I used rubber grommets / gaskets.

 

I have them all over my house and not a soul has ever pointed them out. My initial plan was to paint them to match the cream white as the plate but after looking at them and asking people to look at the walls.

 

Not a single person has ever called them out so I didn't even bother painting them. 

[stusviews]

I've had the same response when comparing printed vs. etched KPL buttons

[ISYhbsh01]

I've seen that product way back in the day and it was going to be my go too product. But, given the price per sensor it was a no go for me along with the fact this would not give you a true ambient room temperature.

 

The fact the probe is flush mounted in the wall would negate those looking for accuracy. I researched this extensively in my own home and the outcome for me was that many walls showed a mean variance of 2-8 degrees.

 

That was a no go . . .

 

In my install I used existing central vacuum plate covers and mounted the sensors in them. To help isolate the sensors from the cover plate I used rubber grommets / gaskets.

 

I have them all over my house and not a soul has ever pointed them out. My initial plan was to paint them to match the cream white as the plate but after looking at them and asking people to look at the walls.

 

Not a single person has ever called them out so I didn't even bother painting them.

Could you please post a picture of what you have done? I have a hard time understanding how exactly you did it. Thanks.

[Teken]

Could you please post a picture of what you have done? I have a hard time understanding how exactly you did it. Thanks.

Sure here is picture prior to installing the grommets / rubber washers. The depth you see of the probes are not true.

 

As the final insertion depth (now) only shows about 1/4" which sits almost flush with the coaxial cable mount.

 

 

This is a better picture of the overall depth of the 1-wire sensor.

 

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

[Amigo]

looks real good. How did you secure the sensor on the back side, did you just make the hole small enough that it is a snug/friction fit through the plate hole?

also who is your reliable source for the bullet type 1-wire sensors?

cheers.

[Teken]

looks real good. How did you secure the sensor on the back side, did you just make the hole small enough that it is a snug/friction fit through the plate hole?

also who is your reliable source for the bullet type 1-wire sensors?

cheers.

 

Hello Amigo,

 

Initially the 1 wire sensors were just using a friction fit diameter hole. Later I wanted to ensure proper isolation of the sensor probe from the plate and added in some rubber grommets / washers. With respect to a 1 wire source I have simply purchased them via EBAY using various listed sellers.

 

Overall I have been very pleased with the quality and durability of the sensors. As they are fully encapsulated and thus allow extreme temperature monitoring in fully submerged areas like water, dirt, mud, etc.

 

Essentially they are water proof, air tight, and the stainless steel housing is extremely hard which allows insertion into hard medium like OSB, Drywall, Concrete, etc.

 

In other parts of the home the sensors are secured using plastic wire ties, aluminum foil tape, and arctic silver thermo conductive grease. These areas monitor the water pipes, HVAC, and related hardware in the home.

 

This image shows the pre installation of the 1 wire sensor to detect the two outside water lines. Should the sensor detect a defined temperature that is outside of the safe range. The 994 Series Controller will activate my heat tape system to ensure the pipe does not freeze and burst.

 

This image shows the pre install to monitor the hot water tank which has been extremely accurate in allowing me to determine the best heat range while balancing energy costs.

 

 

This image shows the two 1 wire sensors that monitor the outside temperatures. As you see probes 3 / 8 are sitting next to one another but each are being monitored by two separate and independent systems to allow fail over and correlated confirmation.

 

 

For me a stealth and balanced look is important and hence why I spent a lot of time considering where to place these sensors. As you can see the final install looks normal and doesn't attract much attention unless called out.

 

 

This is one sensor in the completed stage as you can see it just looks like a metal nub that blends in with the cable TV plate cover. 

 

[Amigo]

Thank you Teken, congrats, looks great.

 

cheers.

[Teken]

Thank you Teken, congrats, looks great.

 

cheers.

 

No problem always a pleasure to share with others trying to accomplish the same. Here are some teasers of what I am able to monitor, aggregate, and react to.

 

This shows the hot water tank consumption, energy use, energy loss, and temperature.

 

 

 

This graph shows the internal temperature of the hot water inside of the HWT.

 

 

These are the readings from my system prior to being sent out to other cloud hosted services for graphing / charting.

 

 

Here's a snap shot in 2014 where the mercury was dropping like a rock.

 

 

Here is a more practical view and use of the 1 wire sensor array. This chart indicates the correlation of outside temperature vs the furnace run time. Knowing these statistics has allowed me to employ the best possible solutions to balance energy costs, comfort, and variable settings on TSTAT adjustments and other passive heating systems.

 

 

 

This image shows another system that monitors the homes super structure. Please note the outside temperature on that specific day which was a 50.5'C! Note the inside temperature is very cool and reasonable temperature of 17.5 - 20.0'C.

 

Keeping in mind I have no central air conditioning in my home at all. All of the cooling is done via passive techniques and solutions in place.

 

Many more are on the drawing board to obtain the maximum passive hause target.

 

[Amigo]

very cool.

I assume most of loggin/charting was done via SEG?

unfortunate about some feedback on pricing increases at SEG, would be nice if there were some alternatives that are as polished.

 

cheers.

[Teken]

very cool.

I assume most of loggin/charting was done via SEG?

unfortunate about some feedback on pricing increases at SEG, would be nice if there were some alternatives that are as polished.

 

cheers.

 

No, these charts and graphs are internal to one of my system(s). The other one that shows the HWT stats is cloud hosted by the vendor I am conducting Alpha / Beta trials for.

 

I too was sadden to read about the SEG cost pricing but at least its a proven option which I enjoyed for several years now. This is why I knew (long term) a dedicated on site solution would be a requirement for me. With ever increasing costs all around us I wanted to pay my pound of flesh just once.

 

I haven't looked back since and enjoy knowing I have a solid product that will not cost me more money down the line. I don't begrudge Sam at all on SEG as this is a business and the cost of hosting and data storage is expensive. It also doesn't take into account the thousands of man hours in his development for the site and what it offers.

 

Unfortunately the current pricing strategy is outside of what I can afford over the long term. Hoping to see a change in this perhaps in the New Year.

[Amigo]

Yes, I agree with all your points above. Logging and tracking is extremely important to me and the models I will be developing. I can live without fancy charts if necessary.

Do you mind sharing what options you have deployed on site for private storage? If that needs to be discussed via private messages that is fine as well.

I was looking into synology and their onboard private cloud and see if that is an option to consider.

 

cheers.

[Teken]

Yes, I agree with all your points above. Logging and tracking is extremely important to me and the models I will be developing. I can live without fancy charts if necessary.

Do you mind sharing what options you have deployed on site for private storage? If that needs to be discussed via private messages that is fine as well.

I was looking into synology and their onboard private cloud and see if that is an option to consider.

 

cheers.

 

Hello Amigo,

 

Not at all the one sensor array is supported and provided by my Autelis Bridge. This unit offers 32 1 wire temperature / humidity sensor support. This unit offers what you see above which is a internal web page that renders the live temps etc. The Autelis Bridge is integrated into the 994 Series Controller via Ethernet and sends state variable data to the controller to react to.

 

The other system is integrated into my energy management system which is offered by Brultech.

 

Their Green Eye Monitor (GEM) monitors the 32 energy circuits in my home and its companion data server Dash Box (DB) is what renders the pretty graphs and charts. All of the energy, pulse, temperature, voltage is sent to the 994 Series Controller via ZigBee and Ethernet via State Variables.

 

Which then manages various Insteon, Network, I/O, HVAC appliances in the homes super structure. The third device is a Alpha development project currently underway which also provides 1 wire support. This device is more geared toward the control, management, and tracking of the HWT.

 

It offers leak detection, temperature monitoring, energy consumption / output, water usage, remote control of the unit, and tracking of the data in the cloud or via hand held smartphone.

[Amigo]

Thank you Teken.

I assume you find Autelis Bridge reliable enough to pass the critical data over to ISY for control? Does it ever hang up?

I may take the dive and get the RS485 version and try to link some Modbus devices besides and in addition to 1-wire devices into ISY.

I am not too sure how Autelis can be setup to distinguish between different Modbus Slave devices(IDs) and the Modbus data/registers they contain, and then add all that into ISY variables.

 

cheers.

[Teken]

Thank you Teken.

I assume you find Autelis Bridge reliable enough to pass the critical data over to ISY for control? Does it ever hang up?

I may take the dive and get the RS485 version and try to link some Modbus devices besides and in addition to 1-wire devices into ISY.

I am not too sure how Autelis can be setup to distinguish between different Modbus Slave devices(IDs) and the Modbus data/registers they contain, and then add all that into ISY variables.

 

cheers.

 

I have never had any issue with the Autelis Bridge passing information to the 994 Series Controller. Having said this it should be noted the vendor has most recently confirmed that 32 1 wire support is limited to a short wire run.

 

My network is more than 1 mile in length and due to this wire length I was not able to install all 32 sensor nodes. As the weight of the (resistance) of wire caused nodes to act erratic or prevented sensor enrollment. If your network is going to be less than 500 feet than you should be OK.

 

Keeping in mind when deploying a 1 wire network using a star topology vs multi point array may also cause the same issues. Only trial and error will show you what works in your environment so good luck.

 

Should you decide to purchase a unit please relay to the vendor you spoke to me about the hardware. With respect to the RS-485 and Modbus I would pose these questions to the vendor in his forum for the most accurate reply and solution.

[Amigo]

Thank you Teken.

I read your other post in Autelis forums and I understand what you are saying.

 

On another note, I came across this:

http://www.cmciel.com/documents/mTB001_Data_sheet_color.pdf

 

I have not used it, and don't know how much it costs but looks interesting for quickly isolating 1-wire segments. They also have some other interesting 1-wire modules where you can tie in voltage or milliamp signals into 1-wire bus. But not sure how they would show up in Autelis or at all.

cheers.