Links missing in ISY994i

[shadowb]

Just installing my ISY994i Pro to replace a Houselinc system.  Have been on X10/Smarthome then Houselinc/Insteon&X10 for many years, finally migrating to 90% Insteon a few X10s left and ISY994i Pro.  

 

Some links were not discovered by ISY but are working just fine.  For example, I have 2-Switchlinc dimmers, an On/Off module, and a Lamplinc in one room - using one of the Switchlinc's as Controller and the others as Responders.  All works fine when I enter the room and tap the Controller.  BUT ISY shows NO links for the Lamplinc.  

 

If I display the Link Table (ISY and Device tables are identical) it lists devices that I do not have and one that I have never had.  

 

0FF8 : A2 00 22.3F.DA FE 1C 00

0FF0:  A2 01 38.10.AB 4C 1C 00

0FE8:  A2 00 3D.C7.BE FF 1F 01

0FE0:  E2 01 3D.C7.BE 01 00 01

0FD8:  00 00 .... 

 

The 22.3F.DA is a Powerlinc PLM that was used with Homelinc and was plugged in at the time I initially ran the Linking in ISY - I subsequently deleted it and ISY updated the links but apparently not in the devices themselves (Write to Devices is ON).  

 

The 38.10.AB is in fact the Controller.  Shouldn't it be an E2?  

 

I have no 3D.C7.BE device and have not removed any devices other than the PLM mentioned earlier.  

 

I'm slowly getting up to speed, reading the How To's, the WIKI, and this Forum.  

 

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Richard

 

 

 

 

[LeeG]

Some information

 

the LampLinc was not seen because of a half link.   LampLinc has Responder link, SwitchLinc is missing Controller link

the 3D.C7.BE is likely the ISY PLM from the A2 and E2 link records at 0FE8 and 0FE0

 

With the number of issues with so few devices the best approach would be to Delete all devices from ISY, Factory Reset all devices, add devices back using Link Management | New INSTEON Device with Auto Discover and 'remove existing links'. 

 

If not on 4.3.26 update ISY Firmware and UI to 4.3.26 

[shadowb]

LeeG,

 

Thanks for the suggestions.  Yes, the 3D.C7.BE is my new 2413S PLM that I did not recognize because it's not in the Device List - should it be?

 

I deleted all devices except for three that are in hard to reach locations (e.g., attic). 

 

I did Factory Resets on the devices for which I found reliable instructions.  The Factory Reset instructions vary considerably between types of devices.  It's horrendous.  I have about two dozen devices including several battery powered wireless only.  

 

I then added the deleted devices back and re-established links I had earlier by re-linking at the devices themselves.  e.g., One SwitchLinc turns on/off all other devices in the room.  

 

I rather expected those links would show up in ISY but they don't.  Is there any notion of synchronizing the links defined in the devices with links in ISY?  

 

Houselinc made a point of the difference between Scenes and device links - one being remembered only in Houselinc (scenes I think) and the other working independent of Houselinc.  Is there a similar notion in ISY?  

 

So far this result is quite different from what the Quick Start process created upon initial install.  

 

So many questions as I continue to slog through all the online documentation and watch the YouTube videos. 

 

Thanks for a useful Forum and for your assistance.  

 

Richard

 

 

[LeeG]

The ISY PLM does not appear in the normal device list.  Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Info/Status has basic PLM info.

 

Direct manual links between devices should never be done.   Create ISY Scenes to link devices.  Example

 

SceneSwitchLincs

SwitchLinc1 - Controller

SwitchLinc2 - Controller

ApplianceLinc - Responder

 

These Scenes do not require the ISY for the Scenes to be functional.  However, the ISY is not an application running on a PC.  It is not normal to run without the ISY.

 

The device(s) Quick Start guide does not assume an application such as ISY is available.  Creating Scenes and device configuration is usually easier with the ISY.

[shadowb]

Ha!  I anticipated your response having just read Mark James' "Some helpful info..." article which says ... 

 

"Understanding this is key to understanding why you do NOT want to create links outside of ISY in your home network. Doing so will render the PLM records inaccurate and therefore your ISY info inaccurate. So always link your devices through ISY."

 

Wish I had found this article earlier, but last night I just wanted to get all my devices back working normally before completing the ISY installation.  I guess that's not possible.  

 

My goal was to keep the existing Houselinc system running day-to-day while I'll got the ISY994i up and running then switch over all at once.  My Houselinc system uses Events entirely and no Scenes.  Together with the links created in the devices the whole system works great.  Trying to minimize disruption on the switch-over.  

 

Suggestions are welcome!  

 

Richard

[mwester]

Suggestion: (based on what worked for me when I switched from Houselinc to the ISY) 

 

Take the opportunity to reconsider what should be linked and not -- factory reset all the devices, and leave them that way for a day or so.  Periodically during the day note the most annoying things that don't work -- and if you don't live alone, have other do that as well.

 

Collect all input, and you might be surprised at how may "critical" functions really aren't so critical.  I know I was!

 

(As a specific example: I ended up with only 4 scenes for the kitchen, replacing the 8 scenes that I originally set up.  It turns out, for example, that nobody thought it was a good idea to have the over-sink light controlled by a button on a KPL in addition to the switch by the sink.  The KPL button that turned on the island lights ended up swapped for the paddle switch that controlled the hallway - turns out nobody but me ever turns on the hallway light from there, but they always want the island light on.  The net result of this simplification was a huge improvement in the WAF (or more politically-correctly, Spousal Approval Factor))

[paulbates]

+1 to mwester's thoughts.  The quick start process isn't really aimed at those migrating in. 

 

It was better to cut things over in groups and recreate it all. It didn't take that long, and offered the opportunity to name things consistently and document.

[shadowb]

Finally all switched over to ISY994i with several Scenes and Programs.  

 

Let me see if I understand Scenes (after reading quite a few forum epiphanies about Scenes and trying some experiments myself.)

 

1.  A Scene can have multiple sets of properties associated with the devices in it.  

2.  The Scene folder level defines a set of properties for each of the devices.

3.  Each controller in the scene defines a set of properties for each of the devices.  These properties can be the same or different from the Scene folder level properties.  

4.  The Scene folder level properties are established when the Scene is invoked via a program.

5.  The scene controller related properties are established when that specific controler invokes the scene.  

6.  With a scene controller selected there is an option to Use the properties from the Scene folder to make them the same. 

 

Wow, that took a while to figure out.  Actually quite a marvelous scheme.  

 

Any discrepancies in my understanding?  

 

Richard

[LeeG]

I think #2, Scene folder, is likely a terminology question.   A Scene in an ISY Folder, the folder has no device properties.  An ISY Scene does have device properties (On Level, Ramp Rate) for the Scene responders.  

[shadowb]

Yes, I got the "Scene folder" term from another Web site and the author probably coined it because the Scene acts somewhat like a folder for the devices it "contains".  In any case I think the separate sets of settings (Scene level and device level) is one of the most relevant aspects of Scenes.  

 

To test it I set some Scene level properties and quite different device level properties associated with a RemoteLinc button controller in the scene.  Voila.  I really have two separate scenes.  One set of properties if the scene is invoked from a program and a different set if it's invoked using the RemoteLinc button.  

 

I don't know yet how I'll use that capability, I currently have made them the same, but it's useful to understand the difference.  A use may become apparent.  

 

Thanks for your help.  

[LeeG]

shadowb

 

Independent of the terminology, you have the correct idea.

 

From an Insteon perspective the "Scene" is one Insteon Scene.   Each Controller (show in RED) is another Insteon Scene.  The example below is actually defining three Insteon Scenes, each with independent characteristics.   Of course they can be set to the same Insteon Scene characteristics but each can have its own Scene reaction.  Scenes are simple but very powerful.

 

Sceneabc

Controller1

Controller2

Responder1

Responder2 

 

Being interested in understanding Scenes is really great.