Deane Johnson Posted January 9, 2016 Posted January 9, 2016 My ISY arrives tomorrow (Sunday) and I'm getting my education ahead of time. It will be used as the Primary controller and with CQC. I will build the Network from scratch using the ISY. For now, it will only do Z-Wave as most of my HA is done with CQC. My main area of question has to do with understanding the physical procedure for Enrolling a device. I've had Z-Wave for 6 or 7 years and am accustomed to having to have some sort of hand held unit next to the switch when Enrolling a new device. With ISY being a non-portable hub like device, I'm wondering how the procedure is accomplished physically. If it's done with the ISY stationary in it's usual resting location, do you click on the Include menu, then run to the device to be enrolled, or is there some other procedure, perhaps with a tablet or something? Sorry to start off with such an elementary question, but this seemed sort of essential to understand and I could find any reference to it on the site or in the wiki. Thanks
stusviews Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 You correctly identified the usual method, select Include and put the device into Include mode. If you have a good Z-Wave mesh, then there should be no problem. Z-Wave devices need to be close for enrollment if they're security devices such as locks or if the controller is battery powered. Sometimes a device needs to be Excluded first, even if it's not ever been Included. That's the usual procedure if a device has difficulty being enrolled.
Deane Johnson Posted January 10, 2016 Author Posted January 10, 2016 Thanks. I assume it would be wise to do the lnclude on a switch near the ISY first, then build out from there. I have no locks or battery operated devices, so I'm clear on those issues. I assume this can be done from a desktop PC. I have iPads and a MS Surface, but the 27" screen on the PC is my favorite place to work when possible.
Guitartexan Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 Hello there Deane. It would be wise to exclude first as a matter of course and then include. It won't hurt to do this and may save you some headache. I did mine exactly as you suggest: start near isy and work your way out to the furthest devices. My setup is all Z-wave and I have not had any troubles now for a year. My main problems occurred when I had just got my isy and was learning. I'm still learning, but have had zero problems with isy. Just an incredibly fine controller with a superlative support network. Michael Kohanim, the creator, even answers questions here personally. I've never seen that anywhere else. Good luck to you although I'm sure all will be well for you! GT
Deane Johnson Posted January 10, 2016 Author Posted January 10, 2016 Thanks for the replies. This is the way I thought it would be, but I didn't want to spend a bunch of time doing it wrong. I've been doing the exclude thingy before including, and I agree, it's the only safe way to go. I'm assuming the Exclude or Include screens stay on the screen long enough to get to the device to push the button. Since the ISY is Wi-Fi based, could I assume one could use the MS Surface (running windows 10) at the device location to save running back and forth? That would require the dashboard being installed on that computer also.
stusviews Posted January 10, 2016 Posted January 10, 2016 The ISY is not WiFi based. The ISY must be hard wired to a router. However, if your router has WiFi capability, then a WiFi device can reach your wired LAN. And, yes, you need to install the Admin Console on the WiFi device.
Deane Johnson Posted January 10, 2016 Author Posted January 10, 2016 The ISY is not WiFi based. Yes, I knew that, but my typing fingers apparently didn't. They seem to lack a certain coordination with my brain.
Deane Johnson Posted January 11, 2016 Author Posted January 11, 2016 The Enrolling of the Devices seemed to go well. The interface with CQC is simple and rewarding after using the VRUSB/RFIT/VRC0P combination. I'm having an issue of some sort with several of the various nodes when I send a signal for a number of lights on or off. I get a small "System Busy" warning box saying not to send a signals or turn anything off. This takes about 5-8 seconds, then goes to the next item in the sequence. It seems to only do it on 3 or 4 nodes. This will sometimes cause several of the nodes to not execute at all I can't figure out what is going on. I have done the link repair and the system heal, with no change. I'm executing these commands from CQC.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 11, 2016 Posted January 11, 2016 Hi Deanne Johnson, Do you get any errors in the Admin Console for those nodes? With kind regards, Michel
Deane Johnson Posted January 11, 2016 Author Posted January 11, 2016 Hi Deanne Johnson, Do you get any errors in the Admin Console for those nodes? With kind regards, Michel I have to go out on an appointment right now, but when I return I'll re run the error logs and post anything I can discover. I don't want to go from memory, which is faulty.
Deane Johnson Posted January 11, 2016 Author Posted January 11, 2016 Michel, I'm having little luck finding any logs showing errors. The Z-Wave log that uses Excel to display shows status, but no errors that I can see. If there is another error log that could be useful, I haven't yet found it. The error log in CQC shows the issue occurring. It fails to Write to the field and so states. While this certainly could be an issue in CQC, I'm drawn to the fact that ISY shows a brief screen box stating that ISY is busy and not to do anything. That's why there is a delay in forward movement, it's still working on the last Action, then when completed, moves on. I realize I'm not providing much useful information. If there is an area in the Administration Console I can bore down with, let me know. Remember, I'm new to the software, but not Z-Wave. I've had it operating for probably 10 years. However, I built a new network with IZY and didn't import the old one.
Deane Johnson Posted January 12, 2016 Author Posted January 12, 2016 I've been working with Dean Roddey this afternoon to determine if the issue might involve CQC. It appears that almost for certain, it does not. In the UD Administrative Console, I can turn all of the modules on or off and get the same delayed sequencing along with the warning not to turn anything on or off until it's finished. It's the box with the horizontal slider indicating the progress with each node. As it finishes one in 5-7 seconds, it jumps to the next device. That surely means it's either ISY or the network. It almost has to be in ISY. I've done the "Healing" thingy, along with the "Repair Links" process. It doesn't change anything. What to try next?
Deane Johnson Posted January 12, 2016 Author Posted January 12, 2016 Sadly, I think the ISY is going to have to go back to Amazon as a "no go" with Z-Wave. This disappointments me, but it's the slowest controller I've every used with Z-Wave. I even tried creating the network with a Cooper Aspire, checked it performance as being fast and typical, then replicated it to ISY as a secondary controller. Same problem. What worked in the Cooper Aspire gets downgraded by the ISY. Not the outcome with the ISY I wanted.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 Hi Deanne, I am so very sorry to hear. This is definitely not normal and what you are describing is not related to Z-Wave/ISY. If you still have ISY, please submit a ticket so that we can login to your computer and see what's going on. With kind regards, Michel
Deane Johnson Posted January 12, 2016 Author Posted January 12, 2016 Michael, I still have ISY, but it's been removed from the lighting system and a new network created with the Cooper Aspire. With the VRC0P as secondary controller and the interface with CQC, I'm back to working normally with my Z-Wave. I am using the ISY as a secondary controller to run my Cooper Aspire wall sockets as Dean Roddey only adds the support for certain less used devices when a user needs them. Rather than bother him to add the Aspire wall sockets at this time, I may just leave the ISY in place to control them. It seems to do that normally and reacts instantly in this case. I do very much like the way the ISY driver in CQC handles things. After I posted last night, at Dean's suggestion, I installed all of the lighting in an ISY based Scene to test the performance without CQC involved. The performance using ISY exclusively to control the Z-Wave was exactly the same as before.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 Hi Deane, Thank you. Performance of ISY to communicate with Z-Wave devices should be within a second unless there are network issues. Since I do not like unsolved msysteries, I would very much appreciate it if we can take a look at whatever you have simply becuase it's NOT normal. Furthermore, when you mentioned "writing to devices", well, that's only for INSTEON so I need to figure out where that's coming from. I also sent you an email. With kind regards, Michel
Deane Johnson Posted January 12, 2016 Author Posted January 12, 2016 Writing to devices is a CQC terminology. I would assume it might be similar to triggering a device, or activating a device. I'm certain it's not the same meaning as ISY uses it for. In the limited testing I have done with ISY running the Cooper Aspire wall sockets, it appears to be very much instantaneous. I was counting on this since these are usually a single instruction event. I believe it's a series of actions such as in a Scene that causes the pile up. With 7 or 8 light dimmers in a row triggered, it took upwards of a minute or so for all of them to react, and most of the time it never finished. I have no problem doing additional testing. I too dislike mysteries, and am bothered by something not performing to specs. You can let me know how you'd like to set it up. I would need to create a Scene in ISY as a test demo. Since a lot has been changed since the previous experience, the first thing I would want to do is test a scene to make sure it is doing the same thing as before. A new network, secondary controller status, rebooting are all things that could have changed something.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 12, 2016 Posted January 12, 2016 Hi Deane, Thank you. I also got your email and, with your help, very much hope that we can get to the bottom of this. With kind regards, Michel
Deane Johnson Posted January 12, 2016 Author Posted January 12, 2016 An update on a very productive afternoon with UDI support. Michel spent a lot of time examining my system to isolate issues. Turns out the problem does not appear to be ISY, but rather several issues in my Z-Wave network with some phantom nodes. Where is Ghostbusters when I need them. In any case, I've decided to keep the ISY and work through my external issue with the network so I can continue to use ISY. It's a very universal piece of gear and I've decided it's better to have it than not to have it. It opens up lots of future possibilities in multiple areas. My frustration with problems earlier in this thread probably showed through some of my posts rather clearly, so I'll apologize to Michel for that. He deserves better. In any case, the train is back on the track and I'm a permanent ISY owner. Amazon will be so relieved.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 13, 2016 Posted January 13, 2016 Hi Deane, Thanks so very much for the feedback. I very much look forward to hearing whatever you find out. With kind regards, Michel
Guitartexan Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Deane, You'll find that Michel and UDI are one and the same. He takes the time and personal interest as only a genuine inventor and business owner would. I had some initial problems as well. Michel personally logged in to my computer and sorted it for me. Typical newbie mistakes on my end, but he has a customer for life now in me. Many others too, truth be told. Well done again Michel. All the best to you. GT
Michel Kohanim Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Hi GT, THANK YOU! With kind regards, Michel
bmarsh Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 I too am fighting my way thru Z-wave issues.... I have been a user of ISY with Insteon devices for at least 5 years but just recently replaced my 994 with a 994 ZW model. (and then added the Z-wave module to my original 994 for some redundancy. However, at this point I am not very impressed with Z-wave! How does one keep track of their devices since the ISY seems to be the one assigning "numbers" to the devices. For example, I just swapped 994's today to check the added Z-wave module. This required excluding and then including each device. Ok, fine. But the numbers all got reassigned even though I tried to keep the inclusion of each device in the same order. At least with insteon, you have specific assignments by MAC id and you don't even have to go to the device to get it into the system. As I write this, I am guessing that the only method with Z-wave is to rename each device as it gets included and then forget about the Z number.. is that right? Seems like a lot more room for error to me and a lot more work keeping track of things. ARRRGG!
Deane Johnson Posted January 15, 2016 Author Posted January 15, 2016 bmarsh, you just hit upon one of the frustrations with Z-Wave (random number assignment). I keep a written log as I add the nodes, then later assign real world names to the nodes. An additional frustration for me is that I then have to go into my CQC programming and update every action on every widget and in all of the Events to reflect the new node numbers. It would be so slick if when a device was enabled, it asked for a number to be assigned. I have to rebuild my entire Z-Wave network, probably this weekend, so this hits home. I'm trying to decide whether to do it with ISY Primary, or do it with my Cooper Aspire and assign it to ISY as a secondary controller. The Cooper Aspire is neat to have to carry around to the devices, the ISY has some nice features for dealing with Z-Wave, so I'm sort of torn. I'm leaning toward making ISY the primary. Does anyone know, does IZY Enable the devices via RF direct to the Device, or does it work through the Z-Wave network from a nearby node?
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