Amazon Echo - ISY Step by Step

[TVC15]

Thank you, Keith! Your Amazon Echo - ISY guide saved me hours of trying to get this figured out. Fantastic!

[TVC15]

Can I use an Echo voice command to set a scene or device brighness level? IE: "Alexa, turn on kitchen lights to 100%"

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi glen.holmes,

 

Here's the list of all the supported commands:

http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY_Portal_Amazon_Echo_Integration#Supported_Commands

 

(you cannot set brightness levels to scenes).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[stusviews]

Setting a scene brightness level: If and only if you want all responders in a scene set to the same brightness level, then:

1. Add each scene member to the portal and Alexa app. Use a unique name for each. Do NOT use the desired spoken for any of the devices.

2. Create an Alexa group that includes all the scene members.

3. Name the Alexa group the desired spoken.

 

That's it.

[icerabbit]

So, now that we have a few Echo Dots, I'm finally biting the bullet for Voice control of our small collection of Insteon Devices

(instead of fumbling with the phone using a separate browser, user/pw, and the less than ideal HTML interface) 

 

First hurdle ... 
 

 

 

Open your Administrative Console click on Help and then Purchase Modules. This will take you to a UDI page to purchase modules. You have to purchase the ISY Portal.

I have the Admin Console open, logged in, see the devices, click on Help > Purchase Modules ...

 

Nothing happens, opens up or goes anywhere? 

 

OS X 10.12.4

Java 8 Update 111

ISY 994i v 4.5.4

 

Any ideas?

 

 

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi icerabbit,

 

Please do make sure you follow all the instructions here:

http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Main_Page#Admin_Console_Icon_on_Your_Desktop ... this puts an icon on your desktop which you should use instead of browser.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[jetjock]

Having some problems with initial setup of my new Echo:

 

TTL is set to 1.2

Java version is 8 update 131

ISY portal is purchased

UDI portal is registered, and online

Amazon account is linked

 

But when I go to my alexa,amazon.com account, settings, there is no "connected home" that I can click on. 

 

 

 

[jetjock]

oh, and I am running version 4.5.4

[stusviews]

But when I go to my alexa,amazon.com account, settings, there is no "connected home" that I can click on. 

 

Amazon changed the name that you need to select to "Smart Home." After selecting Smart Home, click on Devices and select Discover.

[jetjock]

Sorry, I should have mentioned that I tried that as well.

 

I enabled "ISY optimized for Smart Home V2" but when the device search finished nothing had been found.

[stusviews]

Did you log in to the portal first and add devices, scenes and/or programs to the portal.

[jetjock]

aaaah, NOW I understand. I was not aware that each device had to be manually added - but I guess that makes sense.

 

Thanks very much stusviews.

[musicmatters]

Is there anyway to be able to set scenes to something in between on/off?  Like to 50%?

 

It seems that only devices and be set to a percentage, correct?

[stusviews]

That's correct. The Insteon protocol does not allow setting a scene level for good reason. You may have a scene that sets two devices to 50%, one device to 100% and yet another to off. What would setting the scene to 50% do? One line of thought is that each device should be set to 50%. Another possibility is to set each device to one-half the level it was already at. But what's 50% of off?

 

A protocol can't be designed around what someone believes should happen. It must be consistent across all users/thinkers. The ISY does allow you to set the On-level individually for each device in a scene. One method is to create multiple scenes. Another method is to use programs. In the former case, you'll need a different controller for each scene; for the latter, you'll need a different trigger. That also makes sense, you can't have the same controller nor trigger do different things--unless you include different conditions. But different conditions requires using programs.

[MWareman]

But what's 50% of off?

Off...

 

After all, anything multiplied by zero is still zero.

[stusviews]

MWareman, that's absolutely true, but setting a scene to 50% is ambiguous. Does it mean setting each device to 50% (in which case an Off device would be set to an On-Level of 50%) or to 50% of what it was (in which case an Off device would remain off)? Some may agree with the former and others with the latter--but both interpretations have legitimacy.

 

The Insteon protocol is well defined in this situation. Neither interpretation is allowed. Fortunately, the ISY allows either construct

[MWareman]

Does it mean setting each device to 50% (in which case an Off device would be set to an On-Level of 50%)

I have to admit, to me that defies logic.

 

To me, there is nothing ambiguous about dimming scenes....

 

If a scene is defined thusly when turned ‘on’ (100%):

Device A: 100%

Device B: 100%

Device C: 50%

Device D: 0%

 

..and I ask for the scene to be on at 0% (off - or 0) then I think we would *all* agree that this means:

 

Device A: 100 * 0 = 0%

Device B: 100 * 0 = 0%

Device C: 50 * 0 = 0%

Device D: 0 * 0 = 0%

 

What’s ambiguous about the above?

 

Let’s say now we want the scene to be 50% (or 0.5). We then get (using the same function):

 

Device A: 100 * 0.5 = 50%

Device B: 100 * 0.5 = 50%

Device C: 50 * 0.5 = 25%

Device D: 0 * 0.5 = 0%

 

I just don’t see how that’s ambiguous at all. Sure, there is going to be rounding involved - but it’s easy and consistent math across all states.

Edited November 25, 2017 by MWareman

[stusviews]

I have to admit, to me that defies logic.

 

To me, there is nothing ambiguous about dimming scenes....

 

If a scene is defined thusly when turned ‘on’ (100%):

Device A: 100%

Device B: 100%

Device C: 50%

Device D: 0%

 

..and I ask for the scene to be on at 0% (off - or 0) then I think we would *all* agree that this means:

 

Device A: 100 * 0 = 0%

Device B: 100 * 0 = 0%

Device C: 50 * 0 = 0%

Device D: 0 * 0 = 0%

 

What’s ambiguous about the above?

 

I fully agree that there is no ambiguity to those commands.

 

 

Let’s say now we want the scene to be 50% (or 0.5). We then get (using the same function):

 

Device A: 100 * 0.5 = 50%

Device B: 100 * 0.5 = 50%

Device C: 50 * 0.5 = 25%

Device D: 0 * 0.5 = 0%

 

I just don’t see how that’s ambiguous at all. Sure, there is going to be rounding involved - but it’s easy and consistent math across all states.

 

That's certainly a valid conclusion. I just don't get that you rule out:

 

Let’s say now we want the scene to be 50% (or 0.5). We then get (using the same function):

 

Device A: 100 * 0.5 = 50%

Device B: 100 * 0.5 = 50%

Device C: 50 * 0.5 = 50%

Device D: 0 * 0.5 = 50%

 

as also being a valid conclusion. Is it beyond the possibility that someone would like all devices in a scene to be set to a particular On-Level? Wouldn't "set scene x to y%," accomplish that easily. I actually use that construct, albeit not by using the stated scene command, but with the aid of a program that turns on a scene with each device set to an On-level of 20%. (your 50% scenario also requires a program). We utilize such a scene when we pause a movie. That illuminates our way to the kitchen while avoiding any harsh lighting until we return. Some lights in that scene are off, they do not remain off.

 

Once again, I don't understand why you consider setting a scene to a particular On-Level meaning set all devices in the scene to that particular On-Level out of the realm of logic. I do understand that that's not the effect you prefer.

Edited November 26, 2017 by stusviews

[larryllix]

IMHO...a scene is a preset scene. You can select it or not select it. If you want something else, create a new scene or use individual controls in a program.

 

What if I want to have a scene on with half the ramp speeds now? Should I set the scene on with 50% brightness of every scene preset level and 25% of every scene preset ramp rate?

 

Next people may want only some of the devices in the preset scene list to turn on. Then what?

 

Scenes are like car radio presets. You press the button and get what you set it up to be on your former wisdom with the station frequency, volume, tonal settings and speaker balance. There is no between station frequencies or sort of pressed.

 

Sent from my SGH-I257M using Tapatalk

Edited November 26, 2017 by larryllix

[MWareman]

Let’s say now we want the scene to be 50% (or 0.5). We then get (using the same function):

 

Device A: 100 * 0.5 = 50%

Device B: 100 * 0.5 = 50%

Device C: 50 * 0.5 = 50%

Device D: 0 * 0.5 = 50%

 

as also being a valid conclusion.

The math is wrong though.

 

50% * 0.5 = 25% (not 50%).

0% * 0.5 = 0% (not 50%).

 

If you want to have all 4 scene members come up to the same value as the others, that’s a completely different scene construct. Think of a scene as a group of lights with a ratio relationship between them. In my example, light C is only ever 50% the value of A or B. D is *always* off (D could be on in other scene constructs though)

 

Set the scene to 50% - then the scene still maintains the ratio between the lights, just at 50% of their full on values.

[stusviews]

The mathematics is not wrong in the least. I can think of a scene with a ratio relationship. I don't get why you can't think of a scene with an absolute relationship. Maybe it's me. Point out where an absolute relationship defies logic. Not one example, which is not in any way a proof (and seems to be your only defense), but a general concept that allows no exceptions, save one (e.g., primes).

 

Your example is valid for only one specific case, to wit, ratio (the relationship of two values). What about exponentiation (dispersion of light which, BTW, is more applicable than ratio) or, as I have indicated, absolute value.

 

You seem to fixated on one and only one interpretation of simultaneously setting the On-Level of multiple devices. Opinion is not valid component of logic.

 

To recap, the disparity is in the definition of issuing a 50% command to a scene. Your opinion is that it can only mean setting all the devices to 50% of what they were at when the command was issued. I maintain that tha's only one interpretation and that setting all the scene members to a value on 50% is another interpretation. That does not invalidate you conclusion (opinion), but it does add ambiguity.

 

From your responses, I suspect that you've proscribed any interpretation other than yours. So. I'll repeat, opinion is not valid component of logic, no matter how many may have that opinion. We've seen that throughout history

 

Edit: I'm not saying that what you decided is not correct nor even that I disagree with it. Only that logic dictates that setting a scene to a particular %age can have another interpretation, namely, setting each device in the scene to the specified percent.

 

Case in point: If I create a program that sets a device in a scene to 50%, then the device turns on at 50%, not half of its original setting.

Edited November 26, 2017 by stusviews

[MWareman]

The mathematics is not wrong in the least.

Where I went to school, 50 * 0.5 always results in 25. It’s never resulted in 50.

 

To think that 50% of 50% is anything other than 25% is (to me) defying logic.

 

The argument you are making is implying to me that you are misinterpreting the whole purpose of scenes, as defined by Insteon. A scene is just that - preset levels of devices that you can call with a single on command.

Edited November 26, 2017 by MWareman

[apnar]

The argument you are making is implying to me that you are misinterpreting the whole purpose of scenes, as defined by Insteon. A scene is just that - preset levels of devices that you can call with a single on command.

This is the root of the technical issue I believe. In the Insteon protocol for a scene each individual device is the holder of what it’s own “on level” is upon receiving a scene command. We are spoiled having it all kept and programmed by an ISY but at the end of the day an Insteon scene command is just a trigger to all devices, then they locally decide what to do upon receiving it. There is no way to sent a scene on at X%, so if the ISY was to implement this sort of fake logic it’d need to know what devices were in a scene and what their responses to that scene are supposed to be. Then it’d need to send direct commands to every single device one at a time to set it to that adjusted level manually which is far from an elegant solution even if the logic made sense.

 

What could be interesting would be to allow the creation of a virtual device in the ISY that you could populate various percentage value ranges as different scenes. Then anything controlling that virtual device could adjust dim levels and the ISY would trigger the appropriate scene. Would also be very handy for fanlinc setups.

[stusviews]

Where I went to school, 50 * 0.5 always results in 25. It’s never resulted in 50.

 

To think that 50% of 50% is anything other than 25% is (to me) defying logic.

 

The argument you are making is implying to me that you are misinterpreting the whole purpose of scenes, as defined by Insteon. A scene is just that - preset levels of devices that you can call with a single on command.

 

That's the crux of our differences. Your interpretation of setting a scene to 50% means one and only one thing, to wit, setting each device to one-half of the On-Level it was set to. I differ, I don't deny that your interpretation has vaalidity. I argue that another interpretation is as valid, namely, setting each device to 50%.

 

Of course this is all hypothetical. Scenes aren't normally set to a particular level. We do what we want by creating another scene. And I do have a scene that re-sets all of its members to 20%.

[MWareman]

If one scene as two lights, one at half the brightness than the other. Then if I want to have the two lights come on both at the same brightness, by definition that’s a completely separate scene. Different relative values.

 

50% of the first still has one light twice as bright as the other.

 

59% of the second has both lights at the same 50%.

 

What you are describing is two separate scenes - not one scene at some reduced value.

 

You appear to be uses a scene as a group construct instead - which was not the intent of the scene in the insteon protocol.

Edited November 26, 2017 by MWareman