Amazon Echo and in general ISY Costs

[datadaddy]

I ended up going down the ISY path because I bought an Amazon Echo, 

I ended up buying a used ISY994i because of cost factors,

since I had a bunch of X10 stuff laying around this is the area I am first exploring

 

Some of the options are a bit confusing, but overall I'm surprised at the cost factors.

 

After buying the ISY994i, I have to spend an additional $50 for enhanced X10 support (which really isn't that much of an enhancement)

Now I see that in order to integrate with Amazon Echo I will likely cough up another $50 to access the ISY portal

And I think another $50 for the networking module ?

 

Seems like steep startup costs and that doesn't include purchase of any insteon device controllers

Ouch, how do you people do it ?

 

oh, and the software is so outdated...but I can deal with that

 

Questions:

- it's not clear to me yet if either the Amazon Echo skills or Connected home option works with X10 if I don't purchase the X10 module

- when is it required to have the Network module ?  (only when I use the isy portal  or ?)

- what is the relationship between universal devices company and insteon company

 

thanks, newbie, Scott

[Teken]

I ended up going down the ISY path because I bought an Amazon Echo, 

I ended up buying a used ISY994i because of cost factors,

since I had a bunch of X10 stuff laying around this is the area I am first exploring

 

Some of the options are a bit confusing, but overall I'm surprised at the cost factors.

 

After buying the ISY994i, I have to spend an additional $50 for enhanced X10 support (which really isn't that much of an enhancement) <- You don't need the X-10 Module at all X-10 is supported natively. All the X-10 module gives you is a node on the device tree. If you're not happy with the module UDI will be happy to offer a refund no questions asked.

 

Now I see that in order to integrate with Amazon Echo I will likely cough up another $50 to access the ISY portal <- You have three methods to access the Echo. One is to use a software program and middle ware (RPi) which is documented here and is free. The next option is to use the Insteon HUB II to connect the Echo and there is a thread about how to connect the HUB II, ISY, Echo together which avoids the whole $49.XX fee.

 

Last is the UDI Portal which offers both the Skill / Connected Home which is $49.XX for a two year subscription which offers just more than echo support. It offers port free access, multi logon and user rights, control of multiple ISY, supports Echo, IFTT, Push Over, Honeywell Comfort TSTAT, etc.

 

And I think another $50 for the networking module ?

 

Seems like steep startup costs and that doesn't include purchase of any insteon device controllers

Ouch, how do you people do it ?

 

oh, and the software is so outdated...but I can deal with that

 

Questions:

- it's not clear to me yet if either the Amazon Echo skills or Connected home option works with X10 if I don't purchase the X10 module <- If the controller can see it the system will control it.

 

- when is it required to have the Network module ?  (only when I use the isy portal  or ?) <- This module is required to communicate to any network device on the LAN / WAN

- what is the relationship between universal devices company and insteon company <- The two companies are separate and independant. UDI simply supports the Insteon, Z-Wave, ELK, X-10 Product line

 

thanks, newbie, Scott

 

Hello Scott,

 

Answers In Line . . .

Edited January 29, 2016 by Teken

[datadaddy]

Thank you for the reply

It seems like there are many options to get started, maybe that's part of what makes it confusing...choices, choices...but it's a good thing

 

You mentioned Hub II in your reply, I cannot find much in the forums about it

What is meant when someone says "Hub" vs "Hub II"  ?

 

thanks again, Scott

[Teken]

Thank you for the reply

It seems like there are many options to get started, maybe that's part of what makes it confusing...choices, choices...but it's a good thing

 

You mentioned Hub II in your reply, I cannot find much in the forums about it

What is meant when someone says "Hub" vs "Hub II"  ?

 

thanks again, Scott

 

Hello Scott,

 

The reference to the HUB II is made by Smartlabs who is the maker of Insteon: http://www.smarthome.com/insteon-2245-222-hub.html

 

Let me qualify a few things before we move forward OK. 

 

My initial reply to you was to simply offer you a few solutions from free to the most expansive. You can always roll your own with the software package and the use of the middle ware (RPI). Next on the list is using a Insteon HUB II (2245-222) to integrate the Amazon Echo into your Insteon network.

 

Keep in mind the HUB II is supposed to be a stand alone starter controller for those with modest needs. Some enterprising members have come up with a method to integrate the ISY & HUB II where both will operate relatively well together if you're willing to take some risks and sweat equity to make it operate well.

 

For those who have no time, patience, skill, to make the the two solutions work. The UDI Portal will offer the best of in terms of customer experience and integration with other future devices / services.

 

It should be noted that the HUB II does not support X-10. This isn't an issue since the ISY does but I am unsure if the connection of the Echo to the HUB II would see or allow the X-10 device to be controlled and managed.

 

We have a great member named Stu who has tried this integration so wait for him to chime in as to if the combination will allow X-10 support. 

 

Only trial and error will offer that insight though . . .

 

I will try to find all the relevant links for you so you can decide on a path before you waste any finances and resources.

[datadaddy]

Ok, that helps,

 

btw, I'll probably be one to go thru the frustration and time to make things work with modest cost, as I am a software developer career wise, it may even involve some custom experimentation.

 

I really can't wait to get started, it's just a matter of finding time of course

 

thanks, Scott

[Teken]

Ok, that helps,

 

btw, I'll probably be one to go thru the frustration and time to make things work with modest cost, as I am a software developer career wise, it may even involve some custom experimentation.

 

I really can't wait to get started, it's just a matter of finding time of course

 

thanks, Scott

 

Hello Scott,

 

I believe given the above you will find the roll your own solution most excellent and will offer the best long term value. Before the portal existed which is literally only a few weeks now.

 

Many used this excellent method and works extremely well based on feed back in the massive thread.

 

Here is the link just for your own personal edification for the HUB II & ISY Integration:  http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/17271-hub-ii-isy-echo-integration/

 

I will reference the software option as soon as I find it . . .

[Teken]

There are two different approaches this is the first one which as I understand works but is no longer being developed so there are some things that need invested time: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/14525-amazon-echo-and-isy/

 

This is another one: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/16337-echo-mapperconfigurator/

 

This is the one most of the folks are using which Barry Gordon along with others have really helped push the development prior to the UDI Portal: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/17082-interface-with-amazon-echo/?hl=echo

 

Have a big cup of coffee . . .

[stusviews]

A network module is not needed to integrate the Echo and ISY. A subscription to the portal is required. Once the portal is installed and registered, not only will you have access to the ISY Connected Home which gives you the ability to control every device and scene, but you will also be able to add the ISY skill that allows control of locks and thermostats. All this includes secure remote access without have to set up port forwarding.

 

The Insteon Hub 2 gives you the ability to control a few insteon devices. I used it until ISY provided an interface with the Echo.

[Tim McDermott]

I do not frequently post to this forum, but your post and the subsequent replies have crystallized some thoughts. I have been a home automation hobbyist for many years. I think I even still have an ultrasonic X-10 controller and remote in my box of outgrown hardware. Over the years I have followed the Insteon branch of evolution, if for no other reason than it is one of the few protocols that made an effort at backward compatibility with X10. I believe Insteon to be the best DIY home automation protocol, but an underdog nonetheless in a market dominated by a few RF-only protocols like Z-Wave and the like. I have seen seemingly countless "hubs," many with major backers, come and go. UDI has stuck it out and is one of the few vendors in the DIY home automation space to support Insteon, and by extension X10. I have been a customer of UDI since their ISY99i days. From a value proposition perspective, I find UDI unparalleled in the industry. I have found their products to be rock solid and a good long-term investment. Additionally, my experience has shown the support staff to be knowledgeable, helpful and enthusiastic. UDI is one of the few, if not only vendors that provides, with no monthly charge, remote access without the necessity for port forwarding. Their system of modules provides a way of funding the considerable development costs for extensions to their product while keeping down user costs via the a la carte pricing.

 

Yes, I am a fan of UDI and I believe, if you give them a chance, you will be too

 

Tim McDermott

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Tim,

 

I just wanted to post and thank you for your comments. That's pretty much what we all strive for.

 

Thanks again so very much and with kind regards,

Michel

[datadaddy]

Thanks to everyone for the assistance and thoughts, as a newbie to UDI (and Insteon) I appreciate it

[ScottAvery]

If cost is your biggest concern, and you just want to try things out quickly, I would also point out that you can install the BWSSystems Hue emulator on a windows PC if you don't already have a Raspberry Pi laying about, and then run Barry's configurator as described in the long Amazon Echo and ISY thread.  Post 867 has some install instructions, but there may be more hiding deep in the thread. (http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/14525-amazon-echo-and-isy/?p=156514)

 

This is an expensive hobby, but since you already have the best controller you are going to find, you can step into the rest of it piecemeal.  I started out several years ago with just the ISY and switches for exterior lights (for timers). I could have done it cheaper with a purpose built timer, but I wanted to be able to expand. I then bought a handful of new pieces each time there was a major sale.

 

I would recommend you do the same - a room a at time, or a function at a time.   Ultimately you may want to add the Zwave module to have access to more device types (better locks, multifunction devices, better thermostats), but for now, x10 is cheap and Insteon can be purchased in 4 packs or in occasional sales at smarthome.com (join the mailing list for a first-timer coupon), or at Costco.com. 

[madcodger]

Goodness knows I have grumped about various things over the years, mostly in an effort to have UDI be more consumer and cloud friendly. But I must agree that the value I have received from my ISY and from UDI has been about the best overall of anything I can think of in my home automation lineup. It has been going strong for years now, with ongoing support and a steady stream of enhancements.

 

I just received a notice that my financial software - only 3 years old - will no longer be supported (necessitating an upgrade). UDI does better than this, and with hardware! All in all, this little box is one heck of a deal.