New v.35 (4.0) switchlinks dont link to ISY99?

[windrockwater]

I am in the process of replacing many old insteon switches because of the paddle failure problem. The new switches seem to be v.35 as originally discovered by the ISY. However, these new switches do not seem to be responding to commands from the ISY and the ISY is no longer finding them?

 

When i start the UD Admin console, i get error messages that say "cannot communicate with switch...check connections" for only the new switches i installed. All of my older switches connect fine to the ISY even the ones with paddle failures.

 

Is there some reason this is happening? Any advice for me?

[ulrick65]

What version of Firmware are you running? This is likely your problem. You may want to read through the buzz on the forum here around the I2 issues, new firmware updates, etc.

 

Eric

[windrockwater]

i was running 2.6.8 and then tried the 2.6.12 to see if that helped but with no luck. Is there an issue with v.35 switches not linking/communicatiing well with the ISY?

[ulrick65]

I have 3 of them installed and working...but I admit I do not have them doing much other than controling a scene or two. They work fine for me. I am running 2.6.12 at the moment.

 

Is it more than one switch? I was wondering if maybe you had one or two bad ones. I am expecting a boat load of new ones to come on Wednesday (50 of them) so hopefully I am not in for a heartache when I go to install them next week.

 

2.6.13 is planned to be out today, perhaps that will help. In addition, 2.7 is hopefully right around the corner...

 

Eric

 

i was running 2.6.8 and then tried the 2.6.12 to see if that helped but with no luck. Is there an issue with v.35 switches not linking/communicatiing well with the ISY?

[jhimmel]

i was running 2.6.8 and then tried the 2.6.12 to see if that helped but with no luck. Is there an issue with v.35 switches not linking/communicatiing well with the ISY?

 

I suggest you wait for today's release and try again. I had problems with mine with older ISY releases. I am currently using 2.6.13 for that reason.

 

Jim H.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello windrockwater,

 

Have you also replaced your PLM?

 

Newer 600W SWLs only work with i2 commands. This means that they will not respond to any scenes nor will they send ISY status updates unless programmed with 2.6.12 an above.

 

Now, as far as not being able to control them "directly" from ISY, then I suspect two things:

1. Faulty switches since direct commands have to work regardless. So, in essence, you should be able to find them, query them, and turn them on/off directly from ISY

2. Noise/PLM wiring issues

 

Have you tried moving one of them closer to the PLM and see whether or not you can find/control it directly?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I am in the process of replacing many old insteon switches because of the paddle failure problem. The new switches seem to be v.35 as originally discovered by the ISY. However, these new switches do not seem to be responding to commands from the ISY and the ISY is no longer finding them?

 

When i start the UD Admin console, i get error messages that say "cannot communicate with switch...check connections" for only the new switches i installed. All of my older switches connect fine to the ISY even the ones with paddle failures.

 

Is there some reason this is happening? Any advice for me?

[windrockwater]

Thank you for the help:

 

I would really prefer not to buy another PLM. Is that what you mean by replace? I already have sooooo much $ invested in the insteon stuff (two PLCs, PLM, ISY99Pro, controllinc, etc.).

 

The new switches are simple 2476D that the ISY registers as V.35. I will try the new ISY firmware when it comes out and try that. I would prefer not to have to shuffle around any of these installed switches if i don't have to.

 

I need to have smarthome replace about 25 switchlincs under warranty and i am really hopign that the new switches are not worse than my old ones at communicating with the ISY.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello windrockwater,

 

No. I did not mean you would need a new PLM. I just asked what version of PLM do you have (or if it was replaced). Please check Tools->Diagnostics->PLM Info/Status.

 

I suspect noise and wiring issues.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Thank you for the help:

 

I would really prefer not to buy another PLM. Is that what you mean by replace? I already have sooooo much $ invested in the insteon stuff (two PLCs, PLM, ISY99Pro, controllinc, etc.).

 

The new switches are simple 2476D that the ISY registers as V.35. I will try the new ISY firmware when it comes out and try that. I would prefer not to have to shuffle around any of these installed switches if i don't have to.

 

I need to have smarthome replace about 25 switchlincs under warranty and i am really hopign that the new switches are not worse than my old ones at communicating with the ISY.

[windrockwater]

Its v63. Now restarting admin console a few times seems to have helped as the last few times i ran admin the error messages did not popup so the ISY seems to be communicating with the new switches.

 

I will post back if the problem arises again.

 

Thanks again.

[windrockwater]

Well i could really use some more advice. And thank you for trying so far.

 

To summarize:

 

I have a whole houseload of 3 year old insteon switches. I have started to replace them with new ones because of paddle failures (i have replace 6 so far with new switches and plan on replacing the remaining faulty switches if i can fix this issue).

 

I have been using an ISY/PLM successfully with the old switches. Even though there have been paddle failures, ALL the old switches have worked well with the ISY.

 

For some reason, the new v.35 2476D 600 watt insteon switches keep losing communication with the ISY. I get an error message in the ISY admin console along with an exclamation point next to the device. Restarting the PLM and/or ISY sometimes helps but not always.

 

So this is frustrating... is there something about the new insteon switches that doesn't work well with the ISY? I feel like i gave up the paddle problems but now have inherited the inability to program the new switches.

 

HELP!

 

FYI: I am using the 2.6.13 Beta along with a PLM v63. I have two access points each on a dedicated circuit on each leg of my house electric. I do not have any boosters or filters or anything. Wouldnt a houseload of insteon devices assure good relaying of signals?

 

I am at a loss on what to try now. Hopefully the solution does not involve even more purchasing!!!

[windrockwater]

Another comment;

Some of the switches are in a bank of 6 switches on teh wall and only the new insteon switches lose communication. So this must have something to do with the new version of the switches and an issue with the ISY or PLM.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello windrockwater,

 

Would you be kind enough to do the following:

1. Tools->Diagnostics->Event Viewer ... click on Level and choose 2

2. Try turning on/off one of the devices with which you have problems from within the Admin Console

3. Try turning on/off the same device physically

 

Take a short break (just kidding) and then try:

4. Right mouse click on the problematic device, and choose Restore Device

5. When completed, repeat steps 1, 2, and 3

 

Either email (support@universal-devices.com) or post the Event Viewer logs.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Another comment;

Some of the switches are in a bank of 6 switches on teh wall and only the new insteon switches lose communication. So this must have something to do with the new version of the switches and an issue with the ISY or PLM.

[ulrick65]

Hello windrockwater,

 

....

Newer 600W SWLs only work with i2 commands. This means that they will not respond to any scenes nor will they send ISY status updates unless programmed with 2.6.12 an above.

 

....

 

Michel, are you sure about this? I installed 3 of the 2476D's version 4.0 (Isy reports v.35) over Thanksgiving and they all work fine. I programmed them with whatever the current beta release was at Thanksgiving, but I know it was much earlier then 2.6.12

 

Now they are not very complicated:

 

1. In a scene all alone (just controls it's own load at the moment.

 

2. Load controlling in a scene configured in a 3 way situation with a Keypadlinc as the second controller.

 

3. In a multiple controller scene with a lamplinc and two other keypadlinc buttons.

 

 

I know squat about how the base level commands of Insteon work...let alone the differences between I1 and I2, so I am likely way off base. But, I am at a bit of a loss as to how Smarthome can be selling devices now (or even replacing older devices under warranty) that are not I1 aware and therefore will not work with older I1 only devices. This seems impossible, as the whole system would fall apart. Having ISY gives us an advantage...but what about people that are trying to tap-link old I1 only switches to new I2 only switches?

 

Eric

[windrockwater]

Eric: great question.

 

Michael: i will try what you say and post back. At least you are proposing a direct troubleshooting method. Fingers crossed....

[windrockwater]

Michael: Thanks for your speedy responses and help.

 

I ran your suggested tests. As i have mentioned, the communication with the ISY is sporadic. For example, at first there was an exclamation point next to that device. Then it went away.

 

Here is the log, does it tell you anything?

 

2008/12/23 15:21:30 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.47.83 0F 12 00 06 LTON-F (00)

 

2008/12/23 15:21:46 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.47.83 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

2008/12/23 15:21:47 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 0D.FF.2C 27 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

 

2008/12/23 15:21:51 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.47.83 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

 

2008/12/23 15:21:51 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 0D.FF.2C 27 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

 

2008/12/23 15:21:51 : [ E 47 83 1] ST 255

 

2008/12/23 15:22:34 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 00.00.01 CB 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

 

2008/12/23 15:22:34 : [ E 47 83 1] DOF 0

 

2008/12/23 15:22:34 : [ E 47 83 1] ST 0

 

2008/12/23 15:22:34 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 0D.FF.2C 41 13 01 LTOFFRR(01)

 

2008/12/23 15:22:36 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 00.00.01 C7 11 00 LTONRR (00)

 

2008/12/23 15:22:36 : [ E 47 83 1] DON 0

 

2008/12/23 15:22:36 : [ E 47 83 1] ST 255

 

2008/12/23 15:22:37 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 0D.FF.2C 41 11 01 LTONRR (01)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:12 : [First Floor Kitchen Cabinets] Using engine version i2

 

2008/12/23 15:23:12 : [First Floor Kitchen Cabinets] Using engine version i2

 

2008/12/23 15:23:12 : [ E 47 83 1] Restoring Device 'First Floor Kitchen '

 

2008/12/23 15:23:12 : [ E 47 83 1] - Writing 2 links

 

2008/12/23 15:23:12 : [First Floor Kitchen Cabinets] Making PLM group 0 a Controller

 

2008/12/23 15:23:12 : [MNG-LNK-RSP ] 02 6F 40 E2 00 0E 47 83 01 01 35 15

 

2008/12/23 15:23:12 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.47.83 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 (00)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:13 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 0D.FF.2C 23 2F 00 (00)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:15 : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 0E 47 83 0D FF 2C 17 2F 00 01 01 0F FF 01 A2 00 0D FF 2C FF 1F 00 00

 

2008/12/23 15:23:15 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.47.83 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F FF 08 A2 00 0D FF 2C FF 1F 00 00 06 (00)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:17 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 0D.FF.2C 27 2F 00 (00)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:17 : [First Floor Kitchen Cabinets] Making PLM a Responder to group 1

 

2008/12/23 15:23:17 : [MNG-LNK-RSP ] 02 6F 41 A2 01 0E 47 83 01 01 35 15

 

2008/12/23 15:23:17 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.47.83 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F F7 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 (00)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:19 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 0D.FF.2C 27 2F 00 (00)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:20 : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 0E 47 83 0D FF 2C 11 2F 00 01 01 0F F7 01 E2 01 0D FF 2C 00 00 01 00

 

2008/12/23 15:23:20 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.47.83 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F F7 08 E2 01 0D FF 2C 00 00 01 00 06 (00)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:20 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 0D.FF.2C 27 2F 1F (1F)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:20 : [ E 47 83 1] - Removing remaining links

 

2008/12/23 15:23:20 : [ E 47 83 1] Removing remaining links

 

2008/12/23 15:23:20 : [First Floor Kitchen Cabinets] Using engine version i2

 

2008/12/23 15:23:20 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.47.83 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F EF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 (00)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:22 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 0D.FF.2C 27 2F 00 (00)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:23 : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 0E 47 83 0D FF 2C 11 2F 00 01 01 0F EF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

 

2008/12/23 15:23:23 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.47.83 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F EF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 (00)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:23 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 0D.FF.2C 27 2F 00 (00)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:24 : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 0E 47 83 0D FF 2C 11 2F 00 01 01 0F EF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

 

2008/12/23 15:23:24 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.47.83 1F 2F 00 00 02 0F EF 08 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 (00)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:24 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 0D.FF.2C 27 2F 1F (1F)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:25 : [ E 47 83 1] Device Restored

 

2008/12/23 15:23:35 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.47.83 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:35 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 0D.FF.2C 27 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:38 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.47.83 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:39 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 0D.FF.2C 27 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:39 : [ E 47 83 1] ST 0

 

2008/12/23 15:23:43 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.47.83 0F 11 FF 06 LTONRR (FF)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:44 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 0D.FF.2C 27 11 FF LTONRR (FF)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:44 : [ E 47 83 1] ST 255

 

2008/12/23 15:23:45 : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 0E.47.83 0F 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:46 : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0E.47.83 0D.FF.2C 27 13 00 LTOFFRR(00)

 

2008/12/23 15:23:46 : [ E 47 83 1] ST 0

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello windrockwater,

 

My pleasure and thank you for posting your log. Ok, so it seems that ISY currently sees all the status changes from your switch if they are issued by ISY. Now, all we have to do is to keep on turning on/off the switch itself to see if ISY is getting the status updates. Please do be kind enough to post it back.

 

ulrick65,

 

Excellent question ... I wished I did have an answer (even if partially). Currently, the new SWLs (600W/40) are exhibiting a LOT of communication signal sensitivity issue. I do not discount the possibility that you are going to experience them soon. I am sure SH is working on the resolution diligently and we'll keep you posted if we hear something.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Michael: Thanks for your speedy responses and help.

 

I ran your suggested tests. As i have mentioned, the communication with the ISY is sporadic. For example, at first there was an exclamation point next to that device. Then it went away.

 

[jhimmel]

i was running 2.6.8 and then tried the 2.6.12 to see if that helped but with no luck. Is there an issue with v.35 switches not linking/communicatiing well with the ISY?

 

I think the newer switches may have communication issues that have nothing to do with the ISY. I have a large amount of new version switches that I swapped in for the same reason as you - paddle failures on my old ones. The old ones communicated PERFECTLY, while some of the new ones, in the exact same spot, are having problems. I received all of the new switches over the last few weeks.

 

See thread I started here -

http://forum.universal-devices.com/viewtopic.php?t=1921

 

Not all of my new ones are showing a problem. I have one in particular that is not responding reliably to a linked Keypadlinc button. I have a few extras, so I'm going to try a different switch to see if it makes a difference.

 

Like you said - it's a shame to trade paddle failures (that had 100% reliable communication) for reliable paddles and poor communication.

 

Jim H.

[windrockwater]

Seeing others with the same problem makes me very bummed. I thought (after 3 years) things were starting to look rosey. Now its back to wondering if i should've quit on insteon. I have a hard time quitting though!

 

But how could this issue possibly be resolved between new Insteon switches/PLM/ISY?

[wwat]

Just to communicate my experience with the new switches. They have all worked perfectly so far but its only been a week.

I did get the exact same error message you posted with an outletlink. It happened when I moved one of the access points to a different location, once I move it back the error msg went away. This was repeatable.

 

Hope you find a solution.

 

Regards,

Wayne

[windrockwater]

Hi Michael:

I tried what you requested and the Event Viewer is not seeing/logging from manual presses of the insteon switch. Well actually some switches show a response and others do not.

Sean

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello Sean,

 

Do we know the difference between those that you get the status from and those that you do not? Older/Newer/Firmware version?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Hi Michael:

I tried what you requested and the Event Viewer is not seeing/logging from manual presses of the insteon switch. Well actually some switches show a response and others do not.

Sean

[windrockwater]

The new switches that are not being recognized by the ISY consistently are all 2476D v35 (although they have v4.0 printed on them).

 

Here is what seems to happen...

I will start the admin console and some or all of the new switches will each have a popup error (cannot communicate to device...). So i will restore those devices and that seems to work temporarily.

 

When i restart the admin console, it is a crapshoot on which of the new switches will communicate (maybe all, some or none). FYI: all 30+ of the other older insteon devices connect to the ISY every time! This includes appliancelincs, lamplincs, switchlincs, KPL, etc.

 

Unfortunately, the new switch problems are erratic and not consistently reproducible. I am at a real loss right now. I need to decide whether to replace the old paddle failed switches (that work great with the ISY) with new switches that do not work reliably with the ISY. By the way, i love thie ISY and really hope this can be fixed.

 

Separately, is there a list of definitions as to what the insteon commands in the event viewer represent? I would like to understand more about what commands are being sent/received to troubleshoot.

 

You seem to provide good support so thank you. As a true cynic, i have no hopes that 'calling smarthome' will help me in anyway! I think I (we) need to lick this problem as it seems it is common now for some others. i will help troubleshoot as i can, because i have no choice! Who wants a house full of expensive automated switches that cant be automated!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello again,

 

I know of very many cases of SWL 3.5 communications issues. This has to do with hop counts and signal sensitivity when communications are initiated from the device (hop counts) or to device (sensitivity). Unfortunately, as much as I wan to help, but I just cant. I am so very sorry.

 

As far as the event viewer, all you have to know are the following (this will be captured in the wiki):

1. INST-ACK - The PLM responded to a command sent by ISY (usually an echo). i2 ACKs are longer (23 bytes)

2. INST-SRX - The receiving device has either responded to a command from ISY or is sending an event. This is the standard length message (i1)

2. INST-ERX - The same as SRX but returned by i2 devices

 

Now, here's how things work

1. Sending a request from ISY

--i1

---->Send Request--->Receive INST-ACK-(Wait for Response)-->Receive INST-SRX. Timeout means that either ACK or SRX did not come within alloted time (4 seconds)

--i2

---->Send Request --->Receive INST-ACK-(Wait for Response)-->Receive SRX--->Receive ERX

2. Receiving events from devices

---->Receive SRX

 

So, the problem with these switches are:

1. i2 timeout because either the SRX or ERX will never arrive (sensitivity issue)

2. No status feedback because although you may receive SRX, but the SRX does NOT include the group to which it's being issued (it has to be 00.00.n where n is the group number)

 

 

Hope this helps rather than confuses you more. I strongly recommend calling for replacements.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

The new switches that are not being recognized by the ISY consistently are all 2476D v35 (although they have v4.0 printed on them).

 

Here is what seems to happen...

I will start the admin console and some or all of the new switches will each have a popup error (cannot communicate to device...). So i will restore those devices and that seems to work temporarily.

 

When i restart the admin console, it is a crapshoot on which of the new switches will communicate (maybe all, some or none). FYI: all 30+ of the other older insteon devices connect to the ISY every time! This includes appliancelincs, lamplincs, switchlincs, KPL, etc.

 

Unfortunately, the new switch problems are erratic and not consistently reproducible. I am at a real loss right now. I need to decide whether to replace the old paddle failed switches (that work great with the ISY) with new switches that do not work reliably with the ISY. By the way, i love thie ISY and really hope this can be fixed.

 

Separately, is there a list of definitions as to what the insteon commands in the event viewer represent? I would like to understand more about what commands are being sent/received to troubleshoot.

 

You seem to provide good support so thank you. As a true cynic, i have no hopes that 'calling smarthome' will help me in anyway! I think I (we) need to lick this problem as it seems it is common now for some others. i will help troubleshoot as i can, because i have no choice! Who wants a house full of expensive automated switches that cant be automated!

[windrockwater]

Would changing any of the advanced options in the console help? i.e. use i1 only?

 

Is it a problem with all of the currently shipping insteon switchlincs? Or just some bad ones?

 

If i get replacements, what should i request? ANy specific firmware version? Or just whatever is newest?

 

I am at a loss on how to proceed from here....but really appreciate your input too so thanks.

[jhimmel]

I am at a loss on how to proceed from here....but really appreciate your input too so thanks.

 

How many of your new switches are having this problem? It seems that not all v.35 are created equal. I received two large batches of v.35's. While one switch had serious communication reliability issues, replacing it with another from the same batch seems to have solved the problem completely.

 

I know this does not make the situation much easier for you. None of us relish the idea of having to contact Smarthome and try to explain -why- we want to return for replacement 5 of the 30 switches we just received. Then you may be in a position of having to return 1 or 2 of the 5 replacements. It is astonishing to me that we are still suffering issues that should have been ironed out YEARS ago with this product.

 

As far as I can tell, there are two things causing issue with v.35 communication reliability. First is a weakening of transmit/receive sensitivity that can cause previously reliable areas to become marginal. Second is an inconsistency in the production run. I gather i2 plays a role in all of this as well. From my limited experience so far with these new switches, I think you will need to fine tune your network for optimal performance (try additional access points, or even just move them around), and you just may have to replace a few and try and get more lucky with the next ones.

 

I'm counting my blessings that I actually seem to have everything working at the moment. The last thing I went through was a mass failure of about 20 switches over a one week period due to electrical problems from my utility provider (LIPA). Not surprisingly, my Insteon switches were the ONLY devices to actually suffer damage from the problematic power supply (which seemed to have been fixed after several calls to LIPA). The switches were still under warranty, and Smarthome was good enough to replace them, along with a bunch of other switches that I returned for paddle failures.

 

If it wasn't for Michel and the dedication of the UDI staff, I doubt I would consider Insteon a workable solution anymore. I'm sure I would have given up. I just hope that these constant hurdles put forth by SH do not eventually wear down UDI and cause them to throw in the towel.

 

Jim H.