Newbie guide? Or somewhere to find out how to start?

[Deadeye]

Hi everyone,

 

I've been meaning to hook up a Z-Wave system in my home for quite some time now (slowly started buying Z-Wave compatible parts), but then got busy (had a kid, so therefore, my free time for this went down the drain).  But since the global economic downturn, the number of break-ins in my city has increased by around 70% in just the last year.  With a new babe in the house, my paranoia level has increased, so I was thinking of finally getting my Z-Wave home off the ground sooner rather than later, but this time including some cameras and security system.  My dream system is to hopefully have something like the Mobilinc system (http://mobilinc.com/) but for Android.  Problem is, I have no idea where to start.  I've read a lot of websites, but they mainly tend to be sellers of a certain brand of hardware (well, like this site and ISY), so I'm finding it hard to get a non-biased answer.  Though to be fair, a lot of people had suggested ISY, so that's why I'm trying this forum.  I'm wondering if there is a user guide or a site that might guide an absolute newbie through the whole home automation/security planning and setup with ISY?  I want to know if it will meet all of my needs.

Here's the hardware that I currently have: 
* Schlage Z-Wave deadbolts on all the doors (I tried their Nexia service with the Nexia bridge that came with one of the locks, but I don't think what they offered was worth $10 a month, so I am REALLY hoping that I don't need the Nexia bridge to use these Schalge locks again)

* A Trane Z-Wave thermostat (still in the box)

* One license for mHome Control server software, but it appears as though they went under as their website (www.EmbeddedAutomation.com) is no longer up.

* A Z-Wave USB dongle that I haven't tried out yet, but it came with the mHome software.

 

My end goals:
1) Set up core Z-Wave system.  Not sure if this requires a large hardware controller, or if I can just use my windows server with the USB dongle.  Haven't been able to find a straight answer on-line for this one.  I think I would prefer using a Windows box and some software to control the system (like Axial as it looks pretty cool), as I think I would have more control over the environment (be able to write scripts, for example, if the motion sensors detect movement in a room, turn on the lights and keep them on for x minutes)

2) Install a Z-Wave security system.  I live in an older home, but I'm doing some renovations (along with replacing ALL the old aluminium wiring with copper) so I'd rather use wired where I can, but I know in some locations (outside walls) it will be very difficult to run wires (for window security sensors).  I'd like to have a panel at the front and back door, but I'd also like to be able to access the security system remotely (Android mobile) and through the server (to be able to use the security system for some home automation (IE: If the motion detectors don't detect any motion between the hours of 11:00 to 12:00, arm the system).  I'm not exactly married to the idea of a Z-Wave security system, as I have had people mention that they would never do a Z-Wave security system because of the reliability (we NEED our security system to alarm when there is a real threat), so I think I would be alight getting a non-Z-Wave security system , and just using a different app for monitoring.  It would suck to not be able to use the motion sensors with automation, but it would be a trade-off for security reliability. 

3) Full camera monitoring.  I would like to put some (mainly outdoor) cameras to record any thefts around the home, so I'm not sure what hardware to buy.  There are camera kits you can get at Costco that are pretty cheap, but they are not Z-Wave, so I'd have to use a completely separate system to connect and view those, and they wouldn't incorporate into the existing system at all, so I'm not sure what to use here.  Plus, I saw an AWESOME demo on the Mobilinc website where the guy had a camera in his garage that had a microphone, so he had it alert his phone when the volume when above a certain threshold when his security system was enabled (http://mobilinc.com/apps/mobilincpro/).  THAT is the level I would (eventually.......baby steps) like to achieve.

 

Otherwise, the rest that comes with it would just be gravy.  Does anyone have any suggestions with which hardware/software combinations I should go with to reach that level?  At least something to start?

 

Thanks,

Deadeye

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Deadeye,

 

Thanks so very much for posting to our forum. Although I cannot give you full answers to all your questions, I can tell you what you can and cannot do with ISY:

1. You don't need a computer (with mHome or otherwise) and you don't want to use the USB Z-Wave stick

2. You can use ISY994i ZW to manage all your Z-Wave devices (listed above and excluding the USB stick) and you don't have to pay monthly fees to Schlage

3. ISY is fully integrated with ELK: http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=Main_Page#ELK_Security

4. Android app for ELK/ISY: http://forum.universal-devices.com/forum/119-home-alarm-app/

5. Camera recording is way outside of what ISY does

 

 

Good luck.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Deadeye]

Michal,

 

Thank you so much for those awesome links.  LOTS of great reading.  From what I've read so far, I may want to go with a hybrid Z-Wave and Insteon set-up so I have more options, and if I want to reach my garage, Insteon is the only one that would be able to make that distance (over the power lines).  I'd rather do it without a PC (for stability) and I'll probably go with the ISY994i ZW as I believe that it supports both Z-Wave and Insteon so it will give me a lot more flexibility in the future.

 

Though it did raise some new questions, as a lot of these resources require that you know a lot of the basic setup.  For example.  I watched the video "Integrating M1 with Universal Devices ISY for INSTEON" and it mentioned Elk hardware like the M1 Gold Control and the M1XEP.  Why is the Elk hardware required?  Is that so that the Insteon signal can be sent over the power lines?  They also did some examples of setting up the lights, but it was all done through ElkRP2.  Does that mean all of the Insteon controlling is done through the Elk controller, and the Z-Wave programming is done through the ISY994i ZW?  Do I even need the Elk controller?  Can't I do most everything through the ISY?  What about alerts/e-mails/texts?  Perhaps I'm just not understanding how the entire set-up works from a very high level standpoint.

 

Thanks,

Kevin

[larryllix]

Michal,

 

Thank you so much for those awesome links.  LOTS of great reading.  From what I've read so far, I may want to go with a hybrid Z-Wave and Insteon set-up so I have more options, and if I want to reach my garage, Insteon is the only one that would be able to make that distance (over the power lines).  I'd rather do it without a PC (for stability) and I'll probably go with the ISY994i ZW as I believe that it supports both Z-Wave and Insteon so it will give me a lot more flexibility in the future.

 

Though it did raise some new questions, as a lot of these resources require that you know a lot of the basic setup.  For example.  I watched the video "Integrating M1 with Universal Devices ISY for INSTEON" and it mentioned Elk hardware like the M1 Gold Control and the M1XEP.  Why is the Elk hardware required?  Is that so that the Insteon signal can be sent over the power lines?  They also did some examples of setting up the lights, but it was all done through ElkRP2.  Does that mean all of the Insteon controlling is done through the Elk controller, and the Z-Wave programming is done through the ISY994i ZW?  Do I even need the Elk controller?  Can't I do most everything through the ISY?  What about alerts/e-mails/texts?  Perhaps I'm just not understanding how the entire set-up works from a very high level standpoint.

 

Thanks,

Kevin

Security people do not like wireless orpowerline signals for security. They want wired MS units and so forth for abetter level of security that Insteon cannot offer.

 

Having the proper security hardware is is natural that all that status data can be ported into ISY, for double usage and  to give your HA more knowledge  of things in your home.

 

Welcome to the forum!  You didn't call that baby ZigBee did you?

[stusviews]

The ISY functions as a stand alone Insteon manager and controller. Nothing else is needed except access to a browser to add devices and create scenes and, optionally programs. Z-Wave is an add-on, so is an IR receiver. Elk is an security system that the ISY can support.

[Deadeye]

Security people do not like wireless orpowerline signals for security. They want wired MS units and so forth for abetter level of security that Insteon cannot offer.

 

Having the proper security hardware is is natural that all that status data can be ported into ISY, for double usage and  to give your HA more knowledge  of things in your home.

 

Welcome to the forum!  You didn't call that baby ZigBee did you?

 

HAHA!  No, she ended up with a boring "normal" name.

 

Yeah, I can see why you wouldn't want wireless or power line signals for security, but I'm in an older home, so in some areas, I won't be able to run lines so wireless is my only option, and in some areas (detached garage) the power line signal is the only way to get devices out there.  Plus, I'm really just trying to catch/prevent the smash-and-grabs which tend to be what is really hitting my city hard.  I don't think I'm going to be dealing with professional criminals that will be wirelessly hacking my Z-Wave network, or killing the power to the home (though, that makes me think about putting in a battery backup....hmmm....).

 

From what I've been reading, ELK seems to be the security controller and I should be able to run most of my wired security sensors and panels to their, unless I've misunderstood what they're used for.  I can get most of my security sensors wired to the panel, except for a few, so I'm not too worried about those security risks.  Should I go full ELK for security?

[Deadeye]

The ISY functions as a stand alone Insteon manager and controller. Nothing else is needed except access to a browser to add devices and create scenes and, optionally programs. Z-Wave is an add-on, so is an IR receiver. Elk is an security system that the ISY can support.

Ok, I probably should have read your post before replying to the one above.  This answers a lot of my questions about what ELK really is.  I know I can get the ISY to work with Insteon if I get the powerlink modem (which is how the signals are sent over the power lines, right).  I think where I got confused is when I was watching the video and they got to the "hardware setup required" section (link here: https://youtu.be/48rARCW7cYI?t=591),I think I confused the ELK M1XEP which connects on the network as the device that controls the Insteon products (but it's just the network device for the Elk panel).

 

But if I get the ISY994i ZW, it supports Z-Wave, so Z-Wave isn't really an add-on if I get the right ISY device.  Insteon is more the add-on as you need the powerlink modem.

[larryllix]

HAHA!  No, she ended up with a boring "normal" name.

 

Yeah, I can see why you wouldn't want wireless or power line signals for security, but I'm in an older home, so in some areas, I won't be able to run lines so wireless is my only option, and in some areas (detached garage) the power line signal is the only way to get devices out there.  Plus, I'm really just trying to catch/prevent the smash-and-grabs which tend to be what is really hitting my city hard.  I don't think I'm going to be dealing with professional criminals that will be wirelessly hacking my Z-Wave network, or killing the power to the home (though, that makes me think about putting in a battery backup....hmmm....).

 

From what I've been reading, ELK seems to be the security controller and I should be able to run most of my wired security sensors and panels to their, unless I've misunderstood what they're used for.  I can get most of my security sensors wired to the panel, except for a few, so I'm not too worried about those security risks.  Should I go full ELK for security?

If you get ever get  security expert to stop selling or a moment you may get the answer that 75% of home security is the stickers on key windows. You just want them to pick somebody else's home. The stickers are kept very close to their chests though.

 

I am not sure stickers or even alarms systems will prevent most smash and grabs. if you are only going to be there for three or four  minutes, who cares if somebody comes an hour after you leave?

 

I am with you here. I use ISY for an alarm notification system also.

[Deadeye]

If you get ever get  security expert to stop selling or a moment you may get the answer that 75% of home security is the stickers on key windows. You just want them to pick somebody else's home. The stickers are kept very close to their chests though.

 

I am not sure stickers or even alarms systems will prevent most smash and grabs. if you are only going to be there for three or four  minutes, who cares if somebody comes an hour after you leave?

 

I am with you here. I use ISY for an alarm notification system also.

That's hilarious!  Do criminals really think that every place that has stickers has an alarm system?  What happens when a home is sold?  The stickers always stay.

 

True, but if I put enough cameras around, I might catch a license plate, or a face, or something for the cops to go on.  I know the damage will most likely be un-preventable in some cases, but I would like to have a chance to get my stuff back.

[larryllix]

When I was broken into we had a witness that saw a keepsake in the kid's house and the cops just wanted to know if we had insurance.

If you get anything back you accept it in the damaged condition  it comes back in and there is no insurance.

You usually don't want things back and most don't want their home back after it was violated.

We moved out within two years.

People don't remove alarm systems or light fixture when selling their homes. It's all about perception for the nuisance thieves. If they think the broken window will cut their arms off they go somewhere else.

 

If they get comfortable and have lots of time they may try their hand at spray paint artwork n your walls. Better check under you bed sheets too.

 

The ones I am familiar with came home to a cool water falls on their staircase.

[Deadeye]

When I was broken into we had a witness that saw a keepsake in the kid's house and the cops just wanted to know if we had insurance.

 

If you get anything back you accept it in the damaged condition  it comes back in and there is no insurance.

 

You usually don't want things back and most don't want their home back after it was violated.

 

We moved out within two years.

People don't remove alarm systems or light fixture when selling their homes. It's all about perception for the nuisance thieves. If they think the broken window will cut their arms off they go somewhere else.

 

If they get comfortable and have lots of time they may try their hand at spray paint artwork n your walls. Better check under you bed sheets too.

 

The ones I am familiar with came home to a cool water falls on their staircase.

Man, I hate guys like that.  True, probably won't want anything back, unless it's insanely valuable.  The security system will mainly be a loud alarm if it detects an intrusion to try to scare people away before they do any real damage.  I do want cameras around the perimeter as we have some......."problem" neighbours that I need to keep an eye on.

[larryllix]

Man, I hate guys like that.  True, probably won't want anything back, unless it's insanely valuable.  The security system will mainly be a loud alarm if it detects an intrusion to try to scare people away before they do any real damage.  I do want cameras around the perimeter as we have some......."problem" neighbours that I need to keep an eye on.

I was told by a security guy.

 

"You can't stop them from breaking in but you can do your best to limit the time they stay."

 

That never meant much until it happened to me. The little bast@rd sat on our bed eating chocolates from the freezer while he rummaged through my wife's jewelry, probably for several hours. We were lucky for just those little things. The few, out of the several dozen box he didn't eat were all top punched to destroy them. Not that we wanted them after that but just for the sentiment.

[Deadeye]

I was told by a security guy.

 

"You can't stop them from breaking in but you can do your best to limit the time they stay."

 

That never meant much until it happened to me. The little bast@rd sat on our bed eating chocolates from the freezer while he rummaged through my wife's jewelry, probably for several hours. We were lucky for just those little things. The few, out of the several dozen box he didn't eat were all top punched to destroy them. Not that we wanted them after that but just for the sentiment.

Yeah, that's why I want to do this ASAP.  It's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when".  When it happens, I want to make sure they have a screaming siren in their ear the whole time, also alerting my neighbours (that actually care) to the fact that something might be going on.  

Isn't that feeling of personal violation the worst though?  I've had my car and then stolen, then my replacement was broken into twice.  That anger of knowing someone was in your stuff, you just want to literally strangle them.

[Teken]

As you're quite aware technology is very much a stop gap measure and because of this. Its paramount that you have a multi prong game plan in place.

 

Meaning the only thing that will make you whole is a solid comprehensive home owners insurance policy in force. Do not assume based on your different levels of dollar values this is enough to protect you. You need to fully understand and read the fine print and sit down with your insurance company of what is covered, how its covered, and what caveats are in play.

 

Many people don't fully understand the difference between replacement costs vs replacement value. Some don't even know value is based on a blue, red, orange, book determined by some random person.

 

Many policies as moronic as it sounds state to meet a *Break In* the home must be entered through a door. I want you to take pause and really consider what I just stated above.

 

A *Door Way* . . .

 

Is a window a door? Is a garage door a *Door Way*? Is a sky light a door way?

 

Any good insurance company worth their salt will insist upon the owner providing photo's and movies of the home and its contents at the time of enrollment. They will ask for a rolling audit log of items that get purchased as time goes on etc.

 

More comprehensive policies like mine the insurance co via a certified 3rd party *Risk Officer* comes out and does all of the above and documents everything in extreme details with taking hundreds of photos, video's, and measurements. They will literally measure how far the fire hydrant is from your home.

 

They will document how far the closest fire station is from your area and the response time it takes to arrive on site. They will take a topographical map and determine where your home is located and compare it to historic flood, tornado, earth quake, etc.

 

This is only second to comparing your area with local crime stats that date back ten years . . .

 

Once a proper and well thought out comprehensive home owners policy is in place and fully enforced. Your next step is to bolster all of the force protection elements of your home.

 

There isn't one bell / whistle you have listed that will protect you from a 80 lbs boy kicking down your door or opening up a window with a dirty sneaker.

 

Security alarm systems are the other elements once a solid foundation is in place . . . 

[larryllix]

Two other thingd I should have mentioned is.

 

I had full cost replacement value and a lot of trust was put in me.

 

It took almost a year to replace almost everything.

 

My home owners company refused to insure me the next year.

 

 

 

Sent from my SGH-I257M using Tapatalk

[Deadeye]

Teken,

 

Wow........that is pretty heavy.  I think I will be reviewing my policy very shortly.  I honestly have no idea what we are covered for (my wife set up all our insurance) and I never realized how scary that could be in the actual event of a break-in.  I do like the idea of videoing everything.  Getting an inventory of everything might be a bit tough.  I know a security system isn't the be all and end all, but I know that it would at least limit the amount of time that the kid that breaks in.  But I think my insurance company might cut my rate if they find out I have a security system.

 

 

Larryllix

I know insurance companies can be a PITA to deal with.  It took me about a year to get the value of my car that was stolen and destroyed back.  Sucks they wouldn't insure you again.  My company insured me, but my rates skyrocketed of course.

[Teken]

Doing an inventory is most definitely labor intensive and takes a dedicated soul to accomplish said task. This isn't a race, its more of a marathon which you simply take five minutes or what ever time interval you decide to dedicate to this task.

 

Select one room, area, box, it doesn't matter . . .

 

The easiest thing to do is take wide view photos of the general area from there zoom in to major cost items from appliances, electronics, to jewelry.  

 

Unless you have a solid cubby hole or safe most of the rarely worn jewelry should be kept in a safe deposit box at the bank. As you get into a routine and system you will find just breaking out the smart phone taking pictures of the receipt with the item you just purchased becomes second nature.

 

It should be noted regardless of the time stamp on photo its always highly suggested to have a reference point like a newspaper, calendar, etc.

 

This avoids the whole back and forth about when something was purchased etc.

 

As you noted most insurance companies will offer a discount for having a certified alarm system that is monitored by a CS. It should be noted insurance companies are all about what?

 

Risk . . .

 

Therefor increasing the physical force protection of the home and limiting the amount of *Risk* will get you a larger discount. Just quickly here are some basics you should always have in place and enforced if the alarm system is present.

 

1. Always install a key pad in the master  bedroom.

2. Always install a dedicated panic button in the closet or secure place.

3. Always monitor all lower levels with contact sensors that can be open-closed.

4. Do not simply use motion sensors in place of a contact sensor to monitor a opening.

5. Always enroll a duress code and pass phrase with the CS.

 

6. Change the installer code when the system is in place.

7. Change your alarm password on a quarterly basis or more often if so desired.

8. Do not extend disarm entry times past what is the industry norm unless there are specific reasons to do so.

9. Always perform a walk test for all four seasons to ensure the sensors are set and calibrated.

10. Enable ring back so you know the signal was received by the CS.

 

11. Always install an exterior siren to compliment the interior siren / speaker.

12. Never exceed the wire length called out by the manufacture as this increases resistance and places a larger load on the system.

13. Always install EOL resistors to all hardwired sensors locally NOT at the *Can* (system board).

[Deadeye]

Wow, thanks!  This is great info!

 

By Keypad in the bedroom, you mean a security system keypad, or keypad deadbolt?

I LOVE the idea of an alert button.  If I'm doing my own monitoring, is there a way I could set it to automatically call/text the police with a message containing my situation and address?

Do you suggest to "not simply use motion sensors in place of a contact sensor to monitor a opening" because the motion sensor could fail, or because you should have two levels of security?

Sorry, this really may sound like a newbie question, but what is the CS?

What do you mean by "disarm entry times"?  Is this the time that the alarm turns off after being triggered?

I never thought of installing an exterior alarm.  My neighbours are going to love me.  

I would have thought that EOL resistors would be included in hardwired sensors, but that's a really good question that I'll need to ask an Elk rep.

 

Thanks again for all this great info!

[Teken]

Wow, thanks!  This is great info!

 

By Keypad in the bedroom, you mean a security system keypad, or keypad deadbolt? <- A system key pad so you can view what zone is violated, open, close, etc. Consider if the alarm went off and normally its placed at the front entrance. Why would you leave the safety of the bedroom and run outside not knowing who or what was in the home already?

 

I LOVE the idea of an alert button.  If I'm doing my own monitoring, is there a way I could set it to automatically call/text the police with a message containing my situation and address? <- A panic button is normally configured (defined) for hold up, burglary, distress like a heart attack. Almost all security systems have a dedicated button on the keypad already.

 

The difference is this button is intended as a one shot, instant notification which requires no thought. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to use it theres no reading you just press the button. 

 

 

Do you suggest to "not simply use motion sensors in place of a contact sensor to monitor a opening" because the motion sensor could fail, or because you should have two levels of security? <- Physical contacts are used to ensure 100% notification of state change. They are simple and dumb devices which are almost always 100% bullet proof. A motion sensor if not calibrated, installed placement, mounted position, and of course lower quality sensors are prone to false detection. Various sensors whether it be IR, Microwave, Infrasonic, Utrasonic, Sound / Glass, Pressure / Weight, offer a layering approach and fail over. 

 

Sorry, this really may sound like a newbie question, but what is the CS? < Central Station: Do not fall prey to the idea or premise you will be able to self monitor and offer the same level of protection as a dedicated 24.7.365 CS. Also note almost all insurance companies offer a discount only if the alarm system is monitored by a certified CS.

 

What do you mean by "disarm entry times"?  Is this the time that the alarm turns off after being triggered? <- This is the time you have to disarm the alarm system when you enter a defined access point. Whether it be the front door, back door, garage, what ever. Normally if the GDO is monitored a longer delay is applied to ensure the person has enough time to enter the premises once the garage door is opened.

 

There are many people who have extended the entry delay to 5 minutes. This is insanely stupid along with being out of bounds in a UL / cUL installation never mind a residential install.

 

I never thought of installing an exterior alarm.  My neighbours are going to love me.    <- There are only two things that will tell someone a home is in distress that is noise and lights. Having a strobe light along with a siren / speaker ensures everyone knows which house needs assistance. Having a high mounted omni directional strobe light will ensure fire, ems, police, no exactly which house is in danger.

 

 

I would have thought that EOL resistors would be included in hardwired sensors, but that's a really good question that I'll need to ask an Elk rep. <- EOL resistors are not normally installed by default because there may be situations where they are not required or needed. Regardless, they ensure the system is able to detect a open, short, or intersected wire. Sometimes they are used / not used to balance the load on the system. But that just means the person is not following the manufactures specifications for voltage drop / load . 

 

Thanks again for all this great info!

 

Answers in line . . .

 

Other things to note when talking about magnetic contact sensors which monitor doors, windows, or anything that opens. Be very cognoscente of the gap distance they offer and require to trip / remain closed.

 

Some of the magnets are so strong a person can actually open a window 6 inches before the window is declared violated / open. On the reverse do not gap a sensor to its maximum distance because things move do to season building shift etc.

 

Also keep in mind there are basic elements of which zones should be considered *instant* trip vs delayed. When a home is set to stay mode normally all exterior points of entry are set to instant besides the doors which you must enter through.

 

There may be zones in the home which are never entered at night like say a cold storage, basement office, what ever. Sometimes these none active zones should be set to instant to ensure a higher level of security.

 

Its safe to say 90% of all home alarm installs simply monitor the main floor. Rarely do you ever see the basement and second floor monitored.

 

This is rarely an issue during a new construction but the majority of time cheap builders simply install a motion sensor upstairs / basement and do not monitor the actual windows.

 

This is why I stated early above ALL openings must be monitored otherwise you leave yourself open to a threat. It should be noted one of the first things anyone should do is have at least three reputable security alarm companies perform and offer a threat assessment and security audit of the home and its surroundings.

 

Other key things which almost nobody ever does is test the response time from the CS. You should always test, validate, and confirm how well the company you have placed your life on - reacts to real world conditions.

 

Which leads to the next most common situation which many ignore or have no clue how to use or operate. Almost all security alarm panels offer a delay before it sends out a fire condition. Based on your real world needs it can be set to instant vs XX delay where someone forgets to turn on the kitchen exhaust fan, too long of a steamy shower, etc.

 

Most CS are mandated to call out a fire truck . . .

 

Understand this part I just stated *Most CS are mandated* to call out a fire truck. Depending upon where you live most people get a freebie when a false alarm happens. Other places get charged for the mishap and it can range from $400 - 1200 dollars for the mistake.

 

Ensure you decide how best to set the fire zone to your lifestyle while offering protection.

 

Besides monitoring entry points take this opportunity to monitor environmental's: Sump, Low Temp, Leak.

 

Lastly, if you're on the fence about hard wiring your home simply hire it out. This will offer 100% reliability, lower cost, and long term performance. There isn't a certified alarm installer that can't run wire in 99% of the homes out there. Wireless sensors should be used as a secondary method for layering or where its near impossible to run a line to.

 

But 99% of the time it can so let someone qualified do it for you and you can simply do the hardware side once they have done that portion to save you some bucks. 

[Deadeye]

Not sure if the forum is having issues, but I can no longer see the pagination on this post, so I can't see your latest post.  Luckily I had set it up to e-mail me when someone posts.

 

 

The image you showed above isn't the same thing I am referring to or using. Let me grab a camera and take a few photo's up close so you get a better idea of what it looks like and how its secured in place.

I'm pretty sure this is the same door guardian:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/the-door-guardian-hinged-door-lock-0462599p.html

 

Of course they only have it in white, but that's what I need.  

I was going to pick one up, but my concern is the moulding that's around EVERY door in every home now.  Lowes has some better photos of it installed, but of course it shows every install on a flush surface.  That just ain't gonna happen in most homes:
https://www.lowes.ca/door-lock-accessories/door-guardian-7-in-entry-door-flip-lock_g1460935.html

[Teken]

All of the new content that was posted during the forum change over has been lost. All of the posts I replied to and uploaded pictures have since been lost.

 

The wall of text is now gone . . .

 

I don't believe I have the stomach to reload everything from scratch . . . The link you provided above is the correct one though you may have to notch out a small portion of the molding frame.

 

With a chisel it takes about 2-5 minutes depending upon how nice you want it to look. I spent the five minutes because it would bother me if I ever removed them and saw a hacked job just sitting there. 

[Scyto]

If you get ever get  security expert to stop selling or a moment you may get the answer that 75% of home security is the stickers on key windows. You just want them to pick somebody else's home. The stickers are kept very close to their chests though.

ebay is your friend

 

when i bought my house the guy claimed it had an alarm system, when we move it turns out it only ever had stickers - we made him pay us after the fact $2k

 

I installed my own DSC Powerseries alarm - nodelink is awesome to integrate it with the ISY

(now my front door wireless alarm sensor turns my hallway lights on when the door is opened from sunset to sunrise - as an example)

 

I am still pissed at how expensive monitoring is mind you.  For example i know the wholesale price on the telguard software is $7 a month and whole monitoring is $5.  so why do local companies want $30 to $50 out of me - grrr.  so my 2 way communicator has never been hooked up....

 

Oh and 100% agree with all of Tekens comments a couple of posts ago about panels, resistors etc.

[mango]

Stickers and fake reed switches on doors and windows

[larryllix]

ebay is your friend

 

when i bought my house the guy claimed it had an alarm system, when we move it turns out it only ever had stickers - we made him pay us after the fact $2k

 

I installed my own DSC Powerseries alarm - nodelink is awesome to integrate it with the ISY

(now my front door wireless alarm sensor turns my hallway lights on when the door is opened from sunset to sunrise - as an example)

<snipped>

I installed my own DSC panel but left it behind when I moved. The big high-tech when I installed it was a board I patched in to make it talk on the phone and read the menus. I have never installed one where I am now, in the rural. If they kicked the door in while I was away, and it directly dialed the police, they would be here 15 minutes after the loaded truck left and probably discuss it over coffee with their old school buddy if they caught him/her.

 

We have only had one murderer roaming the neighbourhood and it gave some neighbouring city's SWAT team some exercise out on front lawn/mud and house freshly dug foundation pit. The murderer only did old men and I was younger then,

 

While living in the bigger city, a neighbour paid the monthly fee for a ADT security system installation on his lawn, no electronics or hook-ups, but there was a small fee to rent the lawn sign and some window stickers. If it looked more like a gnome it wouldn't have been as noticeable by the teenagers in the area,

 

Then there was the time my house, in the big city, was so equipped with X10 HA fakery, my neighbours had a street gathering to decide whether they should kick our door in, because somebody was travelling through the house at nights but wouldn't answer the door. The police were called and sent everybody home. We were the last to hear about that one.

 

It definitely can be a double edged sword.

[Scyto]

@larryllix - funny stories, thanks for making me laugh this morning.  I am from the UK and moved to US (WA) about 11 years ago.  In the UK the incidence of alarm installation is way way higher, i was shocked when i moved here how few people have them even in the cities (i think this is might be a pacific north west thing?) and most people didn't bother with monitoring  - the goal was absolutely to get them to go somewhere else or make them scarper if they did try something.

 

This is definitely why i struggle with idea of how much local alarm folks want to charge for quite frankly doing nothing and not supplying any hardware!