Fuel oil level monitoring

[jch]

Anyone have any experience with heating oil level monitoring that can be interfaced to the ISY?

Edited May 16, 2016 by jch

[larryllix]

We monitored liquid levels with Nivotube sensors. Very expensive for home usage with it's analogue complete range reporting.

 

Maybe you just want a float switch that install in place of the tank float indicator to indicate a single level.

[Xathros]

I've been planning on setting a magnet on top of the indicator in my sight glass (Vertical cylindrical sight glass) and strapping an FET to the backside of the glass and using that to close an input on an IOLink or triggerlinc when the level drops to around 1/3.

 

-Xathros

[jch]

I've been planning on setting a magnet on top of the indicator in my sight glass (Vertical cylindrical sight glass) and strapping an FET to the backside of the glass and using that to close an input on an IOLink or triggerlinc when the level drops to around 1/3.

 

-Xathros

I have a Roth tank and it has a dial, so that wouldn't work too well. I could of course use a remote camera...

 

Beckett has the Rocket which has a dedicated sensor, I wonder if it uses a standard RF signal (RFXCOM)?

 

Another option is the Fuel Minder II http://fuelminder.biz/Fuel%20Minder%20II/fuel_minder_II_purchasing_details.html and use an A/D converter. I'd have to get a custom length for the Roth tank.

 

 

I've been planning on setting a magnet on top of the indicator in my sight glass (Vertical cylindrical sight glass) and strapping an FET to the backside of the glass and using that to close an input on an IOLink or triggerlinc when the level drops to around 1/3.

 

-Xathros

I have a Roth tank and it has a dial, so that wouldn't work too well.

 

Beckett has the Rocket which has a dedicated sensor, I wonder if it uses a standard RF signal (RFXCOM?).

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk

[KeviNH]

Anyone have any experience with heating oil level monitoring that can be interfaced to the ISY?

What kind of tank and indicator do you have today?  Do you want full/empty or something with more granularity?

 

If you just want "Tank is really low", check out this inexpensive approach:  http://wiki.winkathome.net/Tripper_as_an_Oil_Tank_Low_Level_Sensors_by_Jon_Jenkins

[larryllix]

How about some pressure gauge sensor under a leg?

[Xathros]

What kind of tank and indicator do you have today?  Do you want full/empty or something with more granularity?

 

If you just want "Tank is really low", check out this inexpensive approach:  http://wiki.winkathome.net/Tripper_as_an_Oil_Tank_Low_Level_Sensors_by_Jon_Jenkins

 

Looks like someone already had my idea!

 

-Xathros

[jch]

I'd prefer a level sensor that I could calibrate and get a better understanding of my usage.

[apostolakisl]

You could use a freescale pressure transducer tapped into a line that is at the same level as the bottom of the tank.

 

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/freescale-semiconductor-nxp/MPX5010GP/MPX5010GP-ND/464055

 

Connect that to an AD converter and post to a variable on ISY.  The CAI webcontrol would do that.  I would expect the 0 - 1.45 psi range to be adequate for the tank.  1.45 psi. is 3.3 feet of water and fuel oil I assume is lighter than water, so you should get a bit more range, maybe 5 feet.  If your tank is a barrel shape on its side you'll need to do some math since the depth of the oil will not be linearly tracking to volume.  

 

Also if you have access on the top, you could use an ultrasonic device to measure the level of the oil.  Again, a barrel on its side will need some math.

Edited May 17, 2016 by apostolakisl

[larryllix]

I'd prefer a level sensor that I could calibrate and get a better understanding of my usage.

Then a reader gadget has to go on the float indicator for crude levels that will not see change, replace the float indicator completely, drill a hole into the tank and mount another sensor in the hole.

 

What it sounds like you really want is a flow sensor in the supply tube, from the tank, or just time your furnace running motor.

[KeviNH]

I was thinking of a linear Hall effect sensor with analog output, then I did some googling

 

There's a device called a "MagnetoPot", which looks perfect for this, translates linear position of a magnet into variable resistance.

(5" model #MP1-L-0150-103-5%-ST)

If you already have an A/D converter (e.g EZIO), at around $15 for the MagnetoPot , looks like an easy and cost-effective solution to monitoring the float gauge.   I just ordered one to test.

Edited May 17, 2016 by KeviNH

[apostolakisl]

I was thinking of a linear Hall effect sensor with analog output, then I did some googling

 

There's a device called a "MagnetoPot", which looks perfect for this, translates linear position of a magnet into variable resistance.

(5" model #MP1-L-0150-103-5%-ST)

If you already have an A/D converter (e.g EZIO), at around $15 for the MagnetoPot , looks like an easy and cost-effective solution to monitoring the float gauge.   I just ordered one to test.

 

Are you proposing a float in the tank that transmits to a rod that exits the tank, pushes on the long arm of a lever that translates the full range of fluid in the tank into 5 inches?

[apostolakisl]

This seems the most simple

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultrasonic-Range-Finder-Maxbotix-LV-EZ4/321499270140?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36142%26meid%3D3dbab5dd4c6b442ea159c1ec52a39642%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D311139739778

 

An ultrasonic range finder mounted in an opening in the top projecting down onto the fluid.  It will output 10mv per inch, so if you have an AD converter that you can interface with ISY you can post the depth of the fluid (total depth minus what this device outputs).

[Xathros]

This seems the most simple

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultrasonic-Range-Finder-Maxbotix-LV-EZ4/321499270140?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36142%26meid%3D3dbab5dd4c6b442ea159c1ec52a39642%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D311139739778

 

An ultrasonic range finder mounted in an opening in the top projecting down onto the fluid.  It will output 10mv per inch, so if you have an AD converter that you can interface with ISY you can post the depth of the fluid (total depth minus what this device outputs).

 

I should modify a bung plug to accept these and market them as "Bunghole-I/O"

 

-Xathros

[apostolakisl]

I should modify a bung plug to accept these and market them as "Bunghole-I/O"

 

-Xathros

 

I use my bunghole strictly for O, no I's.

[502ss]

I am doing mine a bit differently. Instead of monitoring the oil tank level I instead track the amount of time the furnace runs. I can then calculate burn rate based on nozzle size. It took about two tanks of oil to tweak the variables to get the accuracy within 5 gallons.

 

I simply wired a relay to the burner and the relay triggers an io linc. I then have several programs that calculate minutes and hours the furnace has run, fuel burned, gallons left, minutes left. I even send a weekly report via text on Mondays that give gallons left in tank, amount of gallons burned the last 7 days and also the gallons burned the previous 3 weeks so I can see if I am trending up or down!

 

Here is the report that just came out this Monday

 

(Weekly Oil Usage for 2016/05/16)

12 gal. Used this week, 76 gal. Left

 

Prior usages:

Last week: 17 gal., 2 weeks ago: 19 gal., 3 weeks ago: 14 gal.

[mwester]

The results observed by 502ss are not an isolated case -- I too used burn time back when I was monitoring an ancient oil-burning furnace.

 

I didn't set out to monitor oil levels -- my goal was simply to ensure that the furnace was working when I wasn't there at the old farmhouse, so I was monitoring the thermostat 24VAC line to detect when it was calling for heat, and monitor the temperature adjacent to the boiler to ensure it actually fired up.

 

As a side effect of the monitoring, I discovered that it was dead simple to compute run-time, and from that I tried to estimate fuel level left in the tank - and to my surprise, the estimates were amazingly close.  I did that for two years, and never once was off by more than 10 gallons from the gauge.

[jch]

This seems the most simple

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultrasonic-Range-Finder-Maxbotix-LV-EZ4/321499270140?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36142%26meid%3D3dbab5dd4c6b442ea159c1ec52a39642%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D311139739778

 

An ultrasonic range finder mounted in an opening in the top projecting down onto the fluid.  It will output 10mv per inch, so if you have an AD converter that you can interface with ISY you can post the depth of the fluid (total depth minus what this device outputs).

 

I've seen some projects using ultrasonic sensors as well as some commercial products (Becket Rocket, Rollie WTG).  

 

Using raw data from a ultrasonic sensor would allow me to calibrate to usable full and empty.  The Roth tank I have is top feed and takes about 243 gallons till the whistler quits and the pickup tube is about an inch above the bottom of the tank.  I'm not sure what how temperature affects the reading.

 

The serial output looks most interesting, I have several Raspberry Pi's available.  As I would have to take out the mechanical sensor, I could put a display on the RPi for a local reading.

[jch]

The results observed by 502ss are not an isolated case -- I too used burn time back when I was monitoring an ancient oil-burning furnace.

 

I didn't set out to monitor oil levels -- my goal was simply to ensure that the furnace was working when I wasn't there at the old farmhouse, so I was monitoring the thermostat 24VAC line to detect when it was calling for heat, and monitor the temperature adjacent to the boiler to ensure it actually fired up.

 

As a side effect of the monitoring, I discovered that it was dead simple to compute run-time, and from that I tried to estimate fuel level left in the tank - and to my surprise, the estimates were amazingly close.  I did that for two years, and never once was off by more than 10 gallons from the gauge.

 

My burner controller has a fail output which I have hooked up to an IOLinc so I'll get a notification if there is a burner issue.  I selected a higher-end controller because of this feature.

[Teken]

I use my bunghole strictly for O, no I's.

LMAO I have no words . . .

Edited May 18, 2016 by Teken

[Michaelcrist]

I am doing mine a bit differently. Instead of monitoring the oil tank level I instead track the amount of time the furnace runs. I can then calculate burn rate based on nozzle size. It took about two tanks of oil to tweak the variables to get the accuracy within 5 gallons.

 

I simply wired a relay to the burner and the relay triggers an io linc. I then have several programs that calculate minutes and hours the furnace has run, fuel burned, gallons left, minutes left. I even send a weekly report via text on Mondays that give gallons left in tank, amount of gallons burned the last 7 days and also the gallons burned the previous 3 weeks so I can see if I am trending up or down!

 

Here is the report that just came out this Monday

 

(Weekly Oil Usage for 2016/05/16)

12 gal. Used this week, 76 gal. Left

 

Prior usages:

Last week: 17 gal., 2 weeks ago: 19 gal., 3 weeks ago: 14 gal.

 

Any chance you could elaborate on this? Possibly provide some diagramming? This sounds like exactly what I need for monitoring.

 

Thanks,

Michael

[KeviNH]

If you're interested in remote tracking of the actual level of oil in the tank, there are some interesting competitors to the venerable Beckett Rocket with high resolution output.

 

Two newer options include the TEK-603 "Eco Oil Monitor" and "The Smart Oil Gauge™", a cloud-tethered product which requires a smartphone app.  This last one looks to be the  most likely to eventually support integration with home automation, or at least IFTTT.

 

Any chance you could elaborate on this? Possibly provide some diagramming? This sounds like exactly what I need for monitoring.

If you have a thermostat which sends status updates, you can accomplish this without extra wiring.

 

I've been logging furnace runtime from my Z-Wave thermostat, it tracks closely to oil consumption (my burner nozzle is calibrated for 1.0 gallon/hour).