larryllix Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Thank you all! To me, personally, what we have proposed is revolutionary. It basically allows utilities not to go out of business, figure out whether or not they need more DER/DR/Power Plants, and basically put the control in customer's hands (not the utility). With kind regards, Michel I, personally, would like to hear more about the concept being proposed. As you may know, I spent my life in this field.. Perhaps this is too early to release in the trade secret game, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 Hi larryllix, Definitely NOT a trade secret. Everything is publicly available and the link to the zip file is here: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/19079-udi-is-awarded-a-32m-grant-from-cec/?p=178252 Would love to hear your feedback. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryllix Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Hi larryllix, Definitely NOT a trade secret. Everything is publicly available and the link to the zip file is here: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/19079-udi-is-awarded-a-32m-grant-from-cec/?p=178252 Would love to hear your feedback. With kind regards, Michel Thanks. On a quick half read I think I am seeing a "one way data direction system"?? Utility ----rate data------>Internet---->Home----->WiFi or wired----->ISY994i-----+------>Load interrupters and controls ^ | Analog sensing----------------------------------+ +------>Apps and paper reports Status sensing ----------------------------------+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 Hi larryllix, Almost correct: ISY will never send any usage/pattern/control information back to the utility. That's one of our main goals: privacy. This said, ISY does receive Tenders, and then (depending on the current levels of subscription/usage/time period/preferences), may send a Bid to purchase more for that period. Or, it may request for Credit in case excess energy is available. In short, the only bidirectional communication between ISY/utilities is financial transactions: Tender, Quote, Bid, and Delivery. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryllix Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Hi larryllix, Almost correct: ISY will never send any usage/pattern/control information back to the utility. That's one of our main goals: privacy. This said, ISY does receive Tenders, and then (depending on the current levels of subscription/usage/time period/preferences), may send a Bid to purchase more for that period. Or, it may request for Credit in case excess energy is available. In short, the only bidirectional communication between ISY/utilities is financial transactions: Tender, Quote, Bid, and Delivery. With kind regards, Michel I am not familiar with the the bidding, tender stuff. Is this a multiple utility "bidding" effect, where a large consumer can bid for so many kWh / MWh at a rate and time and the utilities fight over it or just say "yay" or "nay"? Would the only be on an Industrial/commercial level, just a Residential level or both or is the gate still open? Is your "energy grabber" box still in process to help advance the arms and eyes of this project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 Hi larryllix, 1. No, single utility and, no, the utilities won't fight over it 2. The pilot is for SMB/Residential since they don't already have a building management system 3. What's energy grabber? With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryllix Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Hi larryllix, 1. No, single utility and, no, the utilities won't fight over it 2. The pilot is for SMB/Residential since they don't already have a building management system 3. What's energy grabber? With kind regards, Michel Thanks. "energy grabber" was my nickname for your volt/amp contact in/out box. So if only residential, there will be no demand power consideration to worry about? I have experience with some rotating load control boxes, in my past, to control demand load, but we are looking at just straight total energy control during a time period then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted June 6, 2016 Author Share Posted June 6, 2016 Hi larryllix, Ah, you mean EM3? We are not going to use EM3. We are going to use ISY994zw ZS (Z-Wave + ZigBee Smart Energy). We are looking at: 1. Subscription period 2. Total energy available for that period 3. How much we have already used for that period 4. Preference: most savings vs. most comfort 5. Weather forecast, occupancy, ambiance, and [optionally] solar/storage information 6. Receding Control Horizon Algorithm used based on the possible savings from each and every device in conjunction with all the above With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwwer Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Congratulations UDI team! Wining this grant provides some tangible reward for all the great work you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryllix Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Hi larryllix, Ah, you mean EM3? We are not going to use EM3. We are going to use ISY994zw ZS (Z-Wave + ZigBee Smart Energy). We are looking at: 1. Subscription period 2. Total energy available for that period 3. How much we have already used for that period 4. Preference: most savings vs. most comfort 5. Weather forecast, occupancy, ambiance, and [optionally] solar/storage information 6. Receding Control Horizon Algorithm used based on the possible savings from each and every device in conjunction with all the above With kind regards, Michel Yeah, that's it (EM3). "Total energy available for that period". Is this a goalpost thing for ISY to manage to? This sounds like a front end of the algorithms for consideration in the package. My thoughts (this would be more back end results) were to classify devices into levels of need and at certain rates or rate classifications (another indirection chart) a level of shutdown would ensue. Something like Level 1 = shut down anytime, totally expendable. Level 2 = shut down short term or on a short (6 hours) cyclic basis only (HVAC ventilation, small mass heaters) Level 3 = shut down long term or on a rotating (12 hours) schedule basis only (hydronic slab heat, A/C, fridges, freezers) Level 4 = shut down for short cycle every 24 hours Level 5 = never shut down (stairs lights, emergency lights, CO2 detection, security) Program / algorithms would need to be developed to rotate drop each level class of device. Rotation urgency factors would be needed to modify rotational schedules. 2 out of 5, 3 out of 5, 4 out of 5, etc,, A tolerance level vs urgency table would need to be implemented.. Values assigned, maybe dynamic values? Urgency level would need to be established from your energy available-used for that period measurements. Pretty rough yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWareman Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Hopefully, some of these funds can be used to enhance the weather inputs to support this effort - directly from a hardwired local weather station?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 Hi larryllix, Precisely! Hi MWareman, Unfortunately we didn't include local weather stations in the proposal. This said, Polyglot is coming along very well and can probably do this right now. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G W Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 You guys in California sure complicated things. In Colorado we just pay for what we use. It's water we get taken on. It cost more each day. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 You guys in California sure complicated things. In Colorado we just pay for what we use. It's water we get taken on. It cost more each day. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk Yup, when you have so many stupid people making incredibly dumb laws where you can't store and collect what the Heavens brings down. You know the world is a complete disaster . . . https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/03/24/it-is-actually-illegal-in-colorado-to-collect-the-rain-that-falls-on-your-home/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 You guys in California sure complicated things. In Colorado we just pay for what we use. It's water we get taken on. It cost more each day. Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk It's the same in California, but solar energy allows a homeowner to produce more than what's needed. That energy can returned to the POCO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G W Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Yup, when you have so many stupid people making incredibly dumb laws where you can't store and collect what the Heavens brings down. You know the world is a complete disaster . . . https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/03/24/it-is-actually-illegal-in-colorado-to-collect-the-rain-that-falls-on-your-home/ That's old news and that's not the problem. Colorado sits on a mountain and has only one natural lake. Remember, water runs downhill. Colorado has very few places to store water, and very little rainfall. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teken Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 That's old news and that's not the problem. Colorado sits on a mountain and has only one natural lake. Remember, water runs downhill. Colorado has very few places to store water, and very little rainfall. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk I provided the resource link to high light some of the key issues about a precious resource. Which is water and every human being relies upon on a daily basis. Yet people feel its OK to suck it all up for agriculture, farming, and for any other make believe self proclaimed importance. But they truly believe Joe Six Pack is going to have a direct impact on the over all use of water or where it ends up?!? It doesn't matter if every single person in your fine State captured all the water from the skies that God has provided. Just the two industries I noted above consume more and waste more than every human in your State! As the new article high lighted in CA people truly believe passing a law that says you don't serve water unless requested to a patron is going to make a hell of beans of difference?!? Agriculture, Farming consume on the order of tens of millions of liters of water a year never mind just the cow industry has the most impact on emissions than all the cars combined in NA. A simple minded fool could figure that out . . . I find it incredible that *Man* believes he can claim ownership of anything he lays his hands on. But then again man has been really good at two things in history. Taking, and Killing . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stusviews Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Water on Earth is constant. None enters our atmosphere, none leaves it. The problem is natural distribution. Like floods in places that don't need water and droughts in places that do. Besides, if not for agriculture and farming, what would people eat? Oh, I forgot. We can ask Echo to send someone with a pizza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G W Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 I provided the resource link to high light some of the key issues about a precious resource. Which is water and every human being relies upon on a daily basis. Yet people feel its OK to suck it all up for agriculture, farming, and for any other make believe self proclaimed importance. But they truly believe Joe Six Pack is going to have a direct impact on the over all use of water or where it ends up?!? It doesn't matter if every single person in your fine State captured all the water from the skies that God has provided. Just the two industries I noted above consume more and waste more than every human in your State! As the new article high lighted in CA people truly believe passing a law that says you don't serve water unless requested to a patron is going to make a hell of beans of difference?!? Agriculture, Farming consume on the order of tens of millions of liters of water a year never mind just the cow industry has the most impact on emissions than all the cars combined in NA. A simple minded fool could figure that out . . . I find it incredible that *Man* believes he can claim ownership of anything he lays his hands on. But then again man has been really good at two things in history. Taking, and Killing . . . My apologies to all members for posting. Good grief. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javi Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Congratulations UDI Team! // As far as the Water in Colorado, we literally move mountains. All of Denver (and most surrounding suburbs) municipal water comes from the West side of the continental divide, for those unfamiliar we are East of the Mountains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberk Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 very excited for UDI, Michel and the team! I just hope this doesn't put a stop to other development , especially for those of us not in California Although it would be nice if I could connect to my smart meter managed by Florida Power & Light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Hi cyberk, It will definitely have minimal to zero impact to whatever we are already doing especially since that project needs everything we have planned for Z-Wave and 5.0.x. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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