Upgrade ISY994i PRO to Z-Wave and Z-wave v. Insteon

[MWareman]

 

 

Smartlabs insistence on using Morning Industries lock sets which look like something from 1980 is embarrassing never mind the lack luster features. Having said this people should not confuse the issue between Insteons unresolved ALL ON / ALL OFF matter.

 

Even though there have been a small percentage of users impacted by this terrible problem. Not one single person has been a target of a malice attack because it didn't support 128 bit encryption, none.

It's also embarrassing that Smarthome continue selling the 'Garage Door Kit' based on an insecure protocol - and even including a magnetic switch that presents the inverse signal to most users.

 

I wrote on this forum a couple of years ago about the lack of message authentication and clear text nature of the messaging as the main reason NOT to use an iolinc to control a garage door. Now, the specifics of the issue I wrote about were further researched and proof of concept code is now out in the wild. Expect an easy to use Insteon attack tool to be added to the pen testers toolbox very, very soon....

[Teken]

It's also embarrassing that Smarthome continue selling the 'Garage Door Kit' based on an insecure protocol - and even including a magnetic switch that presents the inverse signal to most users.

 

I wrote on this forum a couple of years ago about the lack of message authentication and clear text nature of the messaging as the main reason NOT to use an iolinc to control a garage door. Now, the specifics of the issue I wrote about were further researched and proof of concept code is now out in the wild. Expect an easy to use Insteon attack tool to be added to the pen testers toolbox very, very soon....

 

No arguments on those points because all are quite valid. My reply was to simply address the fact just because something is encrypted does not mean there is no way to circumvent the technology. We both share the mind set that Smartlabs really needs to get into the 21 st century and offer true encryption as Z-Wave has.

 

Regardless its clear some vendors have moved forward embracing what needs to be - while others not so much.

[stusviews]

Every Z-Wave garage door opener I've seen specifies a sectional garage door only. Ours are one piece. Any non-Insteon solution other than ignoring the warning? We're not going to replace both doors!!!

 

BTW, the garages are 70' from and 30' above the street level and detached from the house. We also have a driveway gate. The only other entry is a walkway gate, so we're not especially vulnerable.

[giesen]

Every Z-Wave garage door opener I've seen specifies a sectional garage door only. Ours are one piece. Any non-Insteon solution other than ignoring the warning? We're not going to replace both doors!!!

 

BTW, the garages are 70' from and 30' above the street level and detached from the house. We also have a driveway gate. The only other entry is a walkway gate, so we're not especially vulnerable.

I believe it's mostly geared around safety. One piece doors are supposedly less safe than sectional doors, and even more so when combined with possible unattended opening/closing of the door.

 

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[MWareman]

As one piece doors open or close, they pass thru some space inside the garage that could cause the door to hit someone or something if it were in the way. Sectional doors don't do this. I believe this is the main reason any system to remotely operate a door says sectional only.

 

Only you can know your situation though. Technically, it will work. However, you need to evaluate the liability issues of ignoring the warning!

[G W]

Just make sure your net worth is zero and no one will sue you for money.

 

Best regards,

Gary Funk

[Teken]

To be honest I was always impressed seeing a massive (single) piece of wood, metal, what ever lift up into the sky. I can't honestly say I've seen very many of these solid pane doors in my travels of late. The key things about these doors is proper counter balance and long term maintenance.

 

Many GDO's have been blown do to the above and from high cross winds.

[stusviews]

I don't disagree with the safety issue. But, there are many remote controllable garage door openers available. None of the others include the warning that Z-wave openers have about one piece garage doors. Surely, other manufacturers have to conform to the same regulations.

[giesen]

I don't disagree with the safety issue. But, there are many remote controllable garage door openers available. None of the others include the warning that Z-wave openers have about one piece garage doors. Surely, other manufacturers have to conform to the same regulations.

I do know all the new Chamberlain Liftmasters include such a warning (the 8500 series)

 

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[MWareman]

The same reason McDonalds puts 'Caution Hot' on every coffee cup, even if it has orange juice in it.

[lilyoyo1]

I use both Insteon and Zwave. Insteon for lights and Zwave for outlets (I do have some dual insteon outlets as well), sensors, and locks. For lights, Insteon can't be beat on price, design and functionality,

 

The only Zwave switches that I like are the Leviton Vizia rf+. I have 2 in closets for curiosity (testing) and signaling.

 

I like the cooper aspire outlets which is comparably priced to Insteon. 

 

I have a few fibaro motion sensors, door/window sensors, and their flood sensor. I love all of them. Much better looking than Insteon's sensors (especially the motion sensor).  They are also more expensive than Insteon and takes more time to configure in order to work properly. 

 

For locks I have the Yale touch screens. I love them. I have 2 deadbolts and 1 door handle version for the garage.

 

With all that said, I would go with both. I think Insteon works better with larger installs where distance can be a factor due to the powerline signal. However, having enough of either brand will work without issues. 

 

While the capacitors in the old PLM were an issue, personally I think its overblown. I do think some people genuinely have had issues while many others are simply quick to the blame the PLM: especially those with multiple failures close together. Regardless 80 bucks every few years isn't the end of the world. Many spend that on starbucks in any given month.  The way I see it, I'm simply getting newer advances.

[rafarataneneces]

I use both Insteon and Zwave. Insteon for lights and Zwave for outlets (I do have some dual insteon outlets as well), sensors, and locks. For lights, Insteon can't be beat on price, design and functionality,

 

The only Zwave switches that I like are the Leviton Vizia rf+. I have 2 in closets for curiosity (testing) and signaling.

 

I like the cooper aspire outlets which is comparably priced to Insteon. 

 

I have a few fibaro motion sensors, door/window sensors, and their flood sensor. I love all of them. Much better looking than Insteon's sensors (especially the motion sensor).  They are also more expensive than Insteon and takes more time to configure in order to work properly. 

 

For locks I have the Yale touch screens. I love them. I have 2 deadbolts and 1 door handle version for the garage.

 

With all that said, I would go with both. I think Insteon works better with larger installs where distance can be a factor due to the powerline signal. However, having enough of either brand will work without issues. 

 

While the capacitors in the old PLM were an issue, personally I think its overblown. I do think some people genuinely have had issues while many others are simply quick to the blame the PLM: especially those with multiple failures close together. Regardless 80 bucks every few years isn't the end of the world. Many spend that on starbucks in any given month.  The way I see it, I'm simply getting newer advances.

 

Hello.

 

Can you please post a screenshot of how the Fibaro Flood Sensor looks on your ISY?

 

I just bought one and I see 

 

ZW 007 Notify Sensor

ZW 007 Tamper Code Alarm

ZW 007 Intrusion Alarm

ZW 007 Tamper Alarm

ZW 007 Motion Sensor

ZW 007 Glass Break Alarm

ZW 007 Multilevel Sensor

 

I am supposed to see if there is water or not. It's a flood sensor, I don't care about temperature, it should tell me if it's wet or not

[asbril]

I use both Insteon and Zwave. Insteon for lights and Zwave for outlets (I do have some dual insteon outlets as well), sensors, and locks. For lights, Insteon can't be beat on price, design and functionality,

 

The only Zwave switches that I like are the Leviton Vizia rf+. I have 2 in closets for curiosity (testing) and signaling.

 

I like the cooper aspire outlets which is comparably priced to Insteon. 

 

I have a few fibaro motion sensors, door/window sensors, and their flood sensor. I love all of them. Much better looking than Insteon's sensors (especially the motion sensor).  They are also more expensive than Insteon and takes more time to configure in order to work properly. 

 

For locks I have the Yale touch screens. I love them. I have 2 deadbolts and 1 door handle version for the garage.

 

With all that said, I would go with both. I think Insteon works better with larger installs where distance can be a factor due to the powerline signal. However, having enough of either brand will work without issues. 

 

While the capacitors in the old PLM were an issue, personally I think its overblown. I do think some people genuinely have had issues while many others are simply quick to the blame the PLM: especially those with multiple failures close together. Regardless 80 bucks every few years isn't the end of the world. Many spend that on starbucks in any given month.  The way I see it, I'm simply getting newer advances.

Happiness is in the eye of the beholder  and if you prefer Insteon (for most of your devices) then good for you. In my case,  I replaced all my Insteon devices with Zwave when the PLM blew up and have not looked back since.

I have about 50 Zwave devices controlling lights and fans throughout my home and all work perfectly.. Personally I choose devices with optimum performance and features, and find the Homeseer switches the best. These have Status Reporting and are Zwave Plus. The Cooper switches are nice but the sentinel lights are ON when the lights are ON and I much rather prefer the sentinel light to be ON in the dark. Price is important of course but I would recommend people to choose best over price, and consider that over time the extra $ 10-15 make no big difference.

I may have another look at Insteon in case these do not need Neutral as I have two remaining switches where it is practically impossible to bring Neutral (concrete wall...). 

[stusviews]

There is no switch box that can't be rewired to provide a neutral. That also entails adding an extra device such as a Micro Module or ILL.

[asbril]

There is no switch box that can't be rewired to provide a neutral. That also entails adding an extra device such as a Micro Module or ILL.

Stu, I saw somewhere that there are Cooper switches that don't need Neutral. Do you anything about this ?

[larryllix]

If you have bulbs that entail electronics you will need a neutral with any style of system.

 

One incandescent or any strictly resistive load mixed with electronic bulbs (CFLs have electronics too) in a load circuit can make the neutraless switch a possibility and work.