Is insteon a good investment or are they going to get left behind?

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I have a small investment in insteon devices in my house, about 8 devices. I buy a few every year and thought I would eventually push to do all the lighting in the house but now I wonder if Insteon is a dead product.

Your opinions would be appreciated.

​What I see.
Connect.insteon.com has been in beta for ever. Obviously forgotten about and setting a very bad example.

Insteon windows app is not so great and also never updated.

the Windows phone app .....the same.

1 in 5 devise fails out of the box and support is just not worth the time.

​All that said the devices, if they work when they're first installed work great and are very flexible.

I am left wondering though are some of the other new lighting systems or the NEXT new one going to blow them out of the water and make me wish I didn't make a push to do the entire house with Insteon.

 

Ted

 

p.s. I know this has been discussed before but it was 2 years ago.

[larryllix]

I have a small investment in insteon devices in my house, about 8 devices. I buy a few every year and thought I would eventually push to do all the lighting in the house but now I wonder if Insteon is a dead product.

Your opinions would be appreciated.

 

​What I see.

Connect.insteon.com has been in beta for ever. Obviously forgotten about and setting a very bad example.

Insteon windows app is not so great and also never updated.

the Windows phone app .....the same.

1 in 5 devise fails out of the box and support is just not worth the time.

 

​All that said the devices, if they work when they're first installed work great and are very flexible.

I am left wondering though are some of the other new lighting systems or the NEXT new one going to blow them out of the water and make me wish I didn't make a push to do the entire house with Insteon.

 

Ted

 

p.s. I know this has been discussed before but it was 2 years ago.

The protocol is still the best for the price. Read some other forums about the problems other protocols have.

 

The fact that this has been discussed two years ago should tell us something.

 

...but Insteon doesn't present all the glitz and hype of other product lines.

[mwester]

Insteon continues to be reliant on the powerline (note that dual-band devices do indeed use RF, but if there is sufficient electrical noise on the powerline, the Insteon RF ceases to function!).  Powerline noise continues to increase as the use of high-efficiency low-cost switching power-supplies rises.  It doesn't take a genius to figure out that at some point those two lines on the chart will intersect, and Insteon will cease to function in the majority of modern high-tech homes/apartments.

 

Smarthome has put their bets on a cloud-based strategy -- as have many of their competitors.  If you read the various posts from UDI in response to questions and frustrations (such as the long lead time for the API for the Insteon alarm module, and the failure to deliver on the UDI version of the PLM), you'll read between the lines that SmartHome has no real interest, or perhaps they just lack the ability, to support others who wish to play in the "Insteon world".

 

Newer technologies have arrived in the home in the past five years -- yet Insteon has released nothing that's really all that interesting in the past five years.  They built some new variations on some older existing devices -- nice, but not a new technology.  They build an alarm device - then failed to add support for it in their OWN hub, and failed to deliver the API to anyone else to implement support.  They continue to sell and promote a so-called "garage door kit", albeit with cheaper less-functional components, but they've completely ignored the rise of the controllable door locks.  The micro modules are nice - but again, not an innovation by any means.

 

Security is an ugly, ugly word.  There's pretty much nobody on this forum who cares about the security of their IoT devices, that's pretty clear.  Never-the-less, the industry as a whole is being driven in that direction.  And we're not talking about NSA-proof state-agency-grade military-level encryption here - we're talking about basic authentication and anti-spoofing and anti-tampering here.  Again, Insteon has done nothing here.  Now perhaps they are quietly, in the background, working on some new version of the Insteon protocol that will address this, and bring their protocol up to at least the most basically acceptable level of security as it's defined today.  I like to think they are - it would explain why they've invested so little in creative new devices, etc -- they're holding all that back until they get the new protocol finished up, when they'll announce an entirely new set of devices that are up to year 2016 expectations.  That would be cool.  But, as a realist, I fear that's largely wishful thinking.

 

I've stopped all new expansion with Insteon, and am gradually replacing with z-wave where that's practical.  There's still a place for Insteon here -- the KeypadLincs are hard to replace; they're unique, and I have some out-buildings that require the powerline for the signal since they're out of range for z-wave, and let's be honest -- I have a huge investment in Insteon that I can't scrap. Although each time I look at one of the dozen-plus filterlincs plugged in everywhere in this house, I regret spending all that money and time on what I fear will become valueless in a few years.

 

And let's not even talk about the PLM and its dreadful design.

[larryllix]

I'm sure most of the same negatives can be put to almost any HA protocol.

 

What will drive it into the ground is not those same points, but the spread attitude to avoid it.

 

Many of us came from X10 systems where the next door neighbour can "hack" your devices without even knowing it. I like the speedy reponse of Insteon without the overhead needed for some security schemes. I don't have bars on my windows to protect my door locks either.

 

Again. I am not worried about my neighbour hacking into my 8watt LED lights and turning them on. ISY will just turn them off again. I am not foolish enough to think using HA for door locks is anything more than "cool technology". I don't use any keys now and my door locks are not connected to my HA.

 

But OTOH, I live in Canada and I haven't been bombarded with a paranoia package yet, so I don't worry the same as many of my friends, elsewhere.

 

Yeah, Insteon does drag their feet, and I would like to see them engineer a few more products, faster than they are. I haven't spent any money on filterlincs, phase bridges, access points or other accessories, as yet. If those were needed I may have another view, and spend more tech-time on finding the source of the problem. The medication helps too.

 

X1 still exists, probably as a major player, in HA yet. Insteon will most likely exist on major usage for a few decades yet. I still use a few components of X10. I hope the neighbours don't ever turn my Christmas Lights off.

[mwester]

I'm sure most of the same negatives can be put to almost any HA protocol.

 

What will drive it into the ground is not those same points, but the spread attitude to avoid it.

 

Many of us came from X10 systems where the next door neighbour can "hack" your devices without even knowing it. I like the speedy reponse of Insteon without the overhead needed for some security schemes. I don't have bars on my windows to protect my door locks either.

 

Again. I am not worried about my neighbour hacking into my 8watt LED lights and turning them on. ISY will just turn them off again. I am not foolish enough to think using HA for door locks is anything more than "cool technology". I don't use any keys now and my door locks are not connected to my HA.

 

But OTOH, I live in Canada and I haven't been bombarded with a paranoia package yet, so I don't worry the same as many of my friends, elsewhere.

 

Yeah, Insteon does drag their feet, and I would like to see them engineer a few more products, faster than they are. I haven't spent any money on filterlincs, phase bridges, access points or other accessories, as yet. If those were needed I may have another view, and spend more tech-time on finding the source of the problem. The medication helps too.

 

X1 still exists, probably as a major player, in HA yet. Insteon will most likely exist on major usage for a few decades yet. I still use a few components of X10. I hope the neighbours don't ever turn my Christmas Lights off.

 

Re: security -- I rest my case.

[Teken]

To be clear Smartlabs offers 200 random accessories that may relate to the Insteon product line. Meaning, Smartlabs does not have 200 Insteon electronic hardware devices for sale.

 

This fallacy has been perpetuated by Smarthome for many years.

 

 

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The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular.

[stusviews]

I am left wondering though are some of the other new lighting systems or the NEXT new one going to blow them out of the water and make me wish I didn't make a push to do the entire house with Insteon.

 

The NEXT generation will happen. You will be left in the dust. That will occur within three days or months or years or decades. Well maybe not three decades. But it will happen. so, either wait until when or make a decision and enjoy now.

[apnar]

I sort of look at REST API as the HA protocol. As long as whatever I buy is controllable with a (ideally local) REST API I can switch around and mix and match all kinds of technologies. The combination of Insteon and the ISY provides me a REST API for all my Insteon gear even if I end up using some other controller down the road.

[lilyoyo1]

Insteon devices (zwave too for that matter) are really dumb devices that you can turn on, off, and dim electronically. They aren't like smartphones and computers which allow for greater usage and growth. Whether insteon is around in 5-10 years doesn't matter to me. The switches I have will still turn on, off, and dim.

 

If they break and they aren't around, I'll simply switch to something else that will work. That's the beauty of it all. Using a controller such as the ISY is the brains behind the system. You're not stuck with using just Insteon. You can use insteon devices you like coupled with other brands that you like more. If Insteon were to close down tomorrow, your devices would still work so you would not be left in the cold.

 

The fact is, tomorrow is not guaranteed for any company. While zwave has many mfg. They all have different designs. Should you by the switches, he could stop selling them. The same with fibaro. You would still be looking for a new company. To not by something that can still live being a company life based off the potential for closure means you miss out of many good things.

 

Insteon's lack of growth is also over blown. Zwave seems like it has a larger portfolio only because there are many more mfg. making zwave devices. This does allow you to have a wider variety of devices. You may also find devices from one place that you can't get from another. However, if you look at each mfg. individually, you would be hard pressed to find one with the same size catalog as insteons. The beauty about the ISY is that you can combine zwave and insteon to have all of your needs covered.

[KeviNH]

 Isn't one of the advantages of ISY and REST the ability to integrate with protocols other than Insteon?

 

I'm not that attached to my switches and modules.

 

In an ideal state, I want to see my Insteon and Z-wave light switches and modules like I see my dimmer switches and outlets -- nobody puts too much thought into the fact that their dimmer switch is going to be obsolete because it is incompatible with the newest light bulbs -- when that day comes, you replace the switch.

 

Security is an ugly, ugly word.  There's pretty much nobody on this forum who cares about the security of their IoT devices, that's pretty clear.  Never-the-less, the industry as a whole is being driven in that direction.  And we're not talking about NSA-proof state-agency-grade military-level encryption here - we're talking about basic authentication and anti-spoofing and anti-tampering here.  Again, Insteon has done nothing here.  Now perhaps they are quietly, in the background, working on some new version of the Insteon protocol that will address this, and bring their protocol up to at least the most basically acceptable level of security as it's defined today.

There are several people on this forum who do care about the security of their IoT devices; we chose ISY994 instead of installing arbitrary WiFi-controlled smart switches running an unpatchable version of Linux and relying on a cloud service which may or may not be there tomorrow.

 

Few people care about anti-spoofing and anti-tampering on local intranet protocols.  I am not concerned that somebody standing in my backyard can turn my lights on and off -- I'd be more concerned that they are standing in my yard.  

 

The primary security risks around Internet of Things is mostly about the Internet, not the Things.

[rsknappmd]

Nothing lasts forever, or even for ten years, in many cases. I moved from X10 to Insteon beginning about 6 years ago, and have been pleased with it, although some of the products have not lasted as long as I think they should have. I started by moving my X10 programs to ISY99, adding and replacing with Insteon as occasion permitted, and now am almost completely off X10, except for a few water controls. I have no doubt that a superior technology will emerge in time, but until it does, I'm not in a hurry to make any changes. "If it works, don't fix it." My old Turtle Beach Audiotrons are, one by one, failing, and being replaced by Grace products; my old cars are in excellent shape but are being replaced by better technology (Volt); even my body parts wear out and need replacing (knees). Change is constant, and not always an improvement, but I can expect Insteon to go the way of the TRS-80 in time, and can live with it. I do enjoy the integration with Amazon Echo.

[larryllix]

I still use some BSR x10 modules from the 1980s

 

Sent from a tiny keyboard. Response may be brief.

[jeffreyjue1]

I had some X10 at my old house, then slowly put some Insteon in the over the last 10 years in my current house. I recently added the Z-wave module to my ISY994i and started installing Z-wave switches and experimenting with some Z-wave motion sensors to replace some dying Insteon motion sensors. I'm also playing with a few HomeKit compatible switches and using Homebridge on a Raspberry Pi to make it work with HomeKit and Siri. With the advancement of voice recognition and the various API's, I'm enjoying the options available instead of having to stick with only certain brands or systems.

[cfoliaco]

As some of you have said: ISY gives you flexibility, is up to each one choose the device or components. But it seems to be popular to use Insteon. I have some Insteon devices and a global cache with my ISY and haven't tested z-wave yet... but seems to be good alternative... any way... It would be sad that Insteon doesn't move forward fast as other brands that are doing it well, but it's a bigger polemic for Insteon native users (Hub instead of ISY).

 

 

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

[jeffreyjue1]

ISY started off as an advanced controller for Insteon to handle what the first Insteon hubs couldn't do for programming and flexibility. Later they added other protocols, such as Z-wave and offered support for the MobiLinc apps.

[paulbates]

There are advantages to both. No argument that if locks and sensors are requirements, as well as a wide assortment of  differentiated product types, zwave by far is the winner. If I was starting over, it would be worth exploring.

 

However I don't see where insteon is losing its edge on 2 core features, compatible across its product line: (1) immediate status reporting from the switch when activated, and (2) scene participation for virtual circuits. I've had these for 10+ years with Insteon. After years of watching zwave, that is still murky today. 

 

The solution to this problem seems to come down to selecting the homeseer switch.. which then feels like a limited choice ....which was the original argument against  insteon.

 

Paul

[stusviews]

ISY started off as an advanced controller for Insteon to handle what the first Insteon hubs couldn't do for programming and flexibility. Later they added other protocols, such as Z-wave and offered support for the MobiLinc apps.

 

Correction: The ISY began many years before the Insteon Hubs even existed. Wes of MobiLinc created support for the ISY.

[jeffreyjue1]

I had to get around the status issue on my Z-wave 3-way switches by setting up a script to poll the status of the 3-way switches every minute.

[stusviews]

I had to get around the status issue on my Z-wave 3-way switches by setting up a script to poll the status of the 3-way switches every minute.

 

That creates a lot of traffic and decreases the efficiency of you HA system. A better choice is to replace the Z-Wave devices with those that do report status.