Please do not power off/unplug message (repeatedly)

[G W]

OK, one can't repeatedly power off a device without powering it on. But, t's the On that's a problem.

Exactly. So powering it off repeatedly stipulates you have preformed the opposite action as often. But, you already know that.

 

I. S. B. S. P.

Best regards,

Gary Funk

[Teken]

I always wonder how come people enjoy arguing so much?!?

 

I know sometimes it's fun to pick away at some of the nuances of a topic or reply. But truly believe some of you need to consider the valuable information members like Stu offer.

 

It's safe to say I walk away from various forums learning something new. Often times it has come from those who have been around or worked in various industries.

 

With that stated *short cycling* almost any electrical device can cause damage. As Stu noted, 99% of the time this is due to in rush start up current / voltage spikes / surges.

 

I am sure people can find some random device that may be damaged by turning it off / unplugging it. But speaking plainly removing power vs applying power does not have the same impact.

 

If that wasn't the case why would almost every electrical device known to man produced in 2016 incorporate some kind of start up, soft start, power managements, surge filtering, etc?!?

 

This applies to 99% of the bulk of all consumer grade electronics. The remaining 1% are fringe / commercial applications which for specific reasons require hardware to control how a system will react when a sudden power loss is seen.

 

Whether that be via super capacitors, relays, to fly wheel generators.

 

You will be hard pressed to find a common electronic device which offers the same for power loss condition.

 

Toaster? Nope Microwave? Nope TV? Nope Blender? Nope

 

And let's try to keep our feet on the ground this doesn't apply to items which incorporate complex or dangerous items which deal with fuels.

 

Meaning if someone wants to add in HVAC, Furnace, Boiler, Geo Thermal etc.

 

That's like comparing a steak knife to a chain saw!

 

Anyways that's my $0.00000000001 worth you instigators!

 

 

=========================

 

The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular.

[G W]

I don't know. Stu said I'm wrong then he said I'm correct. Maybe he just felt like arguing tonight.

 

I. S. B. S. P.

Best regards,

Gary Funk

[Sachelis]

If

        garage door device sends an Insteon signal

   and Status 'Office Can Lamp' is not Off

 

Then

        Run 'Program On'  (Then path)

 

Else

       Run 'Program Off'   (Then path)

 

Program On

If

   - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')

 

Then

        Repeat 3 times

        Set 'Office Can Lamp' Off

        Wait 1 second

        Set 'Office Can Lamp' On

 

Program Off

        same logic

 

Thanks Stu. I had tried that, but it results in continual blinking. It seems the "Status 'Office Can Lamp' is not Off" gets reevaluated each time the light's status changes. If I remove that check from the if() statement, the light correctly blinks and stops when the door opens, but I am unable to return the light to its previous state. (FWIW, I also tried removing the Repeat statement and replacing it with Set On, Wait, Set Off, Wait, etc to see if this would change the reevaluation of the light's status.)

[jtara92101]

Per my 11th grade Electronics Teacher, Walter Downs, who served in the Signal Corps during the Korean War:

 

"Whoo hoo hoo! (For some reason, that is how we interpreted his initial expression of displeasure...) you fellows be turning the equipment on and off!"

 

That's all we had to hear to surmise that we were NOT to be turning the equipment on and off repeatedly.

 

(His most common expression of displeasure, though was: "Whoo hoo hoo! You fellas be keepin' noise!" It was 1971, yes, it was all "fellas". I think we did actually get a girl in an electronics class the next year.)

 

If we had too much of it, somebody would stick a shorting plug into an outlet, just as he disappeared into a closet to turn on the circuit breaker to the test benches.

 

Edit: I just fact-checked, and discovered Walter wasn't in the Signal Corps during the Korean War. He was a pilot with the Tuskegee Airmen during WWII. He taught briefly before the war, then went back to teaching in Detroit after, and set-up a TV repair business in his home. Found a quote from the Detroit Free Press in the 1980s:

 

I try to keep current on all the new developments in computer-type circuits," he says. "It's satisfying. I get rid of a lot of tension.

 

 

He taught US all about tubes!

 

Tension from all those years of us "keeping noise", flipping switches, and playing tricks with shorting plugs.

 

This guy said don't be flipping those switches on and off all the time. Don't be!

[jtara92101]

Thanks Stu. I had tried that, but it results in continual blinking. It seems the "Status 'Office Can Lamp' is not Off" gets reevaluated each time the light's status changes. If I remove that check from the if() statement, the light correctly blinks and stops when the door opens, but I am unable to return the light to its previous state. (FWIW, I also tried removing the Repeat statement and replacing it with Set On, Wait, Set Off, Wait, etc to see if this would change the reevaluation of the light's status.)

 

As previously suggested, try setting a variable to indicate that the blinking is in progress, and add to the "if" of both on and off programs. If blinking already in progress, do nothing.

[larryllix]

Here is the technique I use with v5. It uses a variable to save the brightness levelof the lamp and then replace when done. I do not flash it more than twice as it can interfere with other system operations if I cause an Insteon traffic jam.

 

I currently use it for testing programs and temperature setpoint changes on my thermostat.

 

Do NOT upgrade to version 5 unless

• You have no Zwave
• You upgrade to v5.0.4
• You do NOT depend on your ISY system

Flash desk light - [ID 0095][Parent 0001]

If
        From     7:00:00AM
        To      11:59:00AM (same day)
 
Then
        $DeskPot.level  = 'Gathering Room / PotLight over Desk' Status 
        Repeat 2 times
           Set 'Gathering Room / PotLight over Desk' Fast On
           Set 'Gathering Room / PotLight over Desk' Fast Off
           Wait  1 second
        Repeat 1 times
           Wait  1 second
           Set 'Gathering Room / PotLight over Desk' On '$DeskPot.level %'
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

[stusviews]

Thanks Stu. I had tried that, but it results in continual blinking. It seems the "Status 'Office Can Lamp' is not Off" gets reevaluated each time the light's status changes. If I remove that check from the if() statement, the light correctly blinks and stops when the door opens, but I am unable to return the light to its previous state. (FWIW, I also tried removing the Repeat statement and replacing it with Set On, Wait, Set Off, Wait, etc to see if this would change the reevaluation of the light's status.)

 

What are you using to trigger the program (i.e., garage door opening)?

[Sachelis]

What are you using to trigger the program (i.e., garage door opening)?

 

I use

Status 'Garage Door Sensor-Opened' is On

to trigger the event. That works well as long as I don't also check the status of the light. I.e., the following code works, but it doesn't necessarily leave the light in its initial state (on/off):

IF
    Status 'Garage Door Sensor-Opened' is On
Then
    Run Program 'Blink Light' (Then Path)
Else
    - No Actions

I see Larry's post about v5.0.4, but am concerned re the statement of not depending on your ISY...

 

I did try the variable approach, but in all cases the If() statement that determines if the light is on or off gets called again when the light's status changes (even if I try to block it using a variable).

[Sachelis]

 

Here is the technique I use with v5. It uses a variable to save the brightness level of the lamp and then replace when done.

 

<snip>

 

That looks great, Larry, although given your caveats, I'm not ready for v5. Maybe I'll wait to implement "Honey Is Home' blinking.

[jtara92101]

It's a nice doodle to save and restore the specific level before the blinking starts!

 

But I still think you need a variable to indicate "busy".

 

Put a test for the "busy" variable inside the "on" and "off" programs.

 

DISABLE the on/off programs. Then they won't run automatically. But they can still be "called" by your main program.

 

Better still, put them in a folder that is disabled.

[stusviews]

Disabling programs is the key.

 

Trigger Program

If

        Control 'Garage Door Sensor-Opened' is switched On

   and Status 'Office Can Lamp' is not Off

 

Then

        Run 'Program On'  (Then path)

 

Else

        Run 'Program Off'   (Then path)

 

Program On

If

   - No Conditions - (To add one, press 'Schedule' or 'Condition')

 

Then

        Disable Program 'Trigger'

        Repeat 3 times
        Set 'Office Can Lamp' Off
        Wait 1 second
        Set 'Office Can Lamp' On

        Enable Program 'Trigger'

 

Program Off

        same logic

[jtara92101]

^ Even better than my approach. This way, you avoid running the trigger program altogether while the blinking is in progress. It also more clearly shows the intention than through the use of a "blinking is active" variable.

 

Do make sure that on and off programs are disabled.

 

You can still manually disable the trigger program if you want to temporarily disable blinking.

 

We've probably visited blinking programs here many times!  Most common usage is prior to a "you've fallen asleep with the lights on again!" program. (Typically, it's late at night, lights have been on for n hours, perhaps some motion detection) I need to do that in my new apartment - I once had it set up in old residence. But, actually, now, not sure I want to blink. Why unnecessarily wake up due to blinking lights?

 

For the purpose state here, a Nabaztag, or other annunciator - I think the sillier the better - would do the job without stressing your lights.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabaztag

 

Enough of them, and you can announce your wife's arrival like this:

 

[larryllix]

That looks great, Larry, although given your caveats, I'm not ready for v5. Maybe I'll wait to implement "Honey Is Home' blinking.

Not sure but I thought v4.5.xx also supported saving brightness levels. That is considere stable but I never went that direction after v5 came out.

 

Maybe somebody else can confirm about v4.5.xx having that feature.

[stusviews]

No revision of version 4 can save the brightness level. But a variable can be set to the device being not off (in the case of a dimmer or relay or On in the case of a relay) or off.

[Sachelis]

Disabling programs is the key.

 

<snip>

 

Thanks Stu. Disabling programs was the key.  

[Sachelis]

^ Even better than my approach. This way, you avoid running the trigger program altogether while the blinking is in progress. It also more clearly shows the intention than through the use of a "blinking is active" variable.

 

Do make sure that on and off programs are disabled.

 

You can still manually disable the trigger program if you want to temporarily disable blinking.

 

<snip>

 

Thanks jtara. As you an Stu pointed out, you can still call disabled programs but their if() statements won't get re-evaluated when you blink the lights. That's exactly what I needed to know.