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What's the difference between and 8 button and a 6 button keypad


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I know that this SOUNDS dumb...

 

But I see that there is a conversion kit to go from 6 to 8 buttons.

I have taken the keys off of both, and sure enough, they're identical inside with 8 LEDs and 8 contact switches.

 

I also see on the ISY that when I connect a 6 button it shows as a 5 button.

 

So, if I get a 6 button keypad and replace the keys with an 8 button keypad, how does the system know that I have replaced the keys and give me access to the additional buttons?

 

What I'm really trying to accomplish here:

I have two light switches and a keypad.

The keypad ON/OFF controls the lights in the main room.

There are two sub rooms (closets) off of the main room, and each one has it's own ON/OFF switch.

When I press ON on the keypad I want it to turn on the main room lights, and nothing else.

When I press OFF on the keypad, I want it to turn off lights in all three rooms.

I can't see how to do this with a 6button keypad, as I cannot address the OFF button.

However, if I program a 6 button as an 8 button then I can program buttons A&B as NonToggleON buttons, and buttons G&H as NonToggleOFF buttons.

I can then assign G&H to the scene to turn off all three lights.

 

Am I on the right track?

 

Thanks, Nick.

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1. Replace the 6 button frame kit with the 8 button frame kit.

2. Following the manual set the KPL from 6 to 8 configuration.

3. Add the Insteon device to the ISY Series Controller and it will appear as a 8 button KPL

4. Get a tall cold glass of beer and look up and smile.

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I found this on how to change the programming:

http://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Changing_a_KeypadLinc%27s_6/8_Button_Mode

 

So, I really have to change the buttons, tell it that it's an 8 button, then physically change back to the 6 buttons that I want.

 

I like the beer idea.  i think I need it at this point.

 

Nick.

 

Hello Nick,

 

Just to be clear what exactly do you want to happen? 

 

1. Is the KPL currently in 6 button mode? Yes - No

2. Do you want it to be in 8 button mode? Yes - No

3. If the answer is YES for both questions 1 & 2 what do you want to happen in 8 button mode?

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One other subtle difference is that if it should become necessary to perform a factory reset, a keypad will revert to its original configuration. That can make things interesting with regards to scenes and programs what a keypad button configuration has been changed.

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Hello Nick,

 

Just to be clear what exactly do you want to happen? 

 

1. Is the KPL currently in 6 button mode? Yes - No

2. Do you want it to be in 8 button mode? Yes - No

3. If the answer is YES for both questions 1 & 2 what do you want to happen in 8 button mode?

 

1. Yes - KPL is currently in 6 button mode.

2. Yes - I want it to be in 8 button mode.

 

All I really want is direct control of the OFF button.

 

In 6 button mode, it seems to work in 5 button mode, and I cannot distinguish between the ON and OFF buttons.

In 8 button mode, I can assign non-toggle-OFF to the G&H buttons, and put a 6 button faceplate on it.

 

That way I can cause the OFF button on the bottom of the switch to activate a scene that turns off three different lights.

However, the ON button would remain in control of the light that the KeyPad is physically wired to, and would not control any additional lights.

 

Does that make sense?

Am I on the right track?

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Hello Nick,

 

Yes, based on your last reply it makes sense and don't see a problem with your idea. As an aside a few crafty people like Stu have created a wide four button KPL or a combination of wide vs small buttons.

 

The four wide button KPL looks really nice and classy - The next one is two small buttons and three wide buttons below.

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All I really want is direct control of the OFF button.

 

well...as you know, "6-button" is really "5-button", with ON and OFF being two buttons for the same insteon node. 

 

The only way to do what you want is to put it in 8-button mode and put the bottom-two and top-two buttons in a scene together.  Then use your 6-button frame and buttons. 

 

However, the ON button would remain in control of the light that the KeyPad is physically wired to, and would not control any additional lights.

 

Of course, in 8-button configuration, only the upper-left button controls the attached load, so it would be the scene relationship between the top-two buttons that keep everything in sync.

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This is SOO CLOSE to working...  :-P 

 

I'm going to split this into two sections.

This section is going to cover the fan controls.

 

I have a fan on my patio.  It has a fan controller in the base, and no physical switch at all.

The fan also has some lights attached to it.

I have an exterior patio light, that's wired to my KPL-6.

The KPL6 is is 8 button mode.

I also have an 8 button remote setup in 8-scene non-Toggle, this lets me test some stuff easier...

 

On the KPL I have the CDEF buttons for the fan set to stop, low, medium, high.

I have the KPL.C setup as non-toggle-OFF.

I have the KPL.D-F setup as non-toggle-ON.

 

I have a scene set for the Patio.Fan.

The Patio.Fan is the only responder.

The CDEF on the KPL and the remote are all controllers.

I have setup the Remote.C to turn off the KPL.C-F lights, and to set the fan to off.

I have setup the Remote.D to turn on KPL.D light, turn off KPL.CEF, and to set the fan to low.

I have setup the Remote.E to turn on KPL.E light, turn off KPL.CDF, and to set the fan to med.

I have setup the Remote.F to turn on KPL.F light, turn off KPL.CDE, and to set the fan to high.

I have set KPL.C to turn off KPL.DEF and set the fan to off.

I have set KPL.D to turn off KPL.CEF and set the fan to off.

I have set KPL.E to turn off KPL.CDF and set the fan to off.

I have set KPL.F to turn off KPL.CDE and set the fan to off.

 

On the fan controls, the remote does everything I want it to do.

Pressing CDEF will set the fan to the correct speed.

Pressing C will turn off ALL the KPL.CDEF lights.

 

On the KPL, pressing DEF will turn on the KPL.DEF light that corresponds to it, and set the correct speed.

 

However, I'm trying to get KPL.C to turn off the fan AND to turn of the KPL.C light.

(I could argue in theory about weather fan light C should be on or off if the fan is off, but I want it to be off.)

How do I get the KPL.C button to turn off the fan AND to turn off the KPL.C light.

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Second section.

 

This is regarding the lights.

 

Firstly, I think I have my first PLM communication issue.

Pressing Remote.1 does not always power on the fanlight, but always powers on the patio light.

When the fan light fails to light, the LED on the controller stays ON (and turns OFF when the light does come on.)

This seems to indicate that the fan controller in the top of the fan is not getting a good signal.

I do not know if the fan controller is dual-link (?)

The wiring for the fan comes off of a wall outlet in the master bedroom - is there something I could connect to that to increase the signal.  I don't have much Insteon stuff in the master bedroom (yet).

 

I have a scene for patio.lights.

I have the fan.light as a responder.

I have the KPL.1 as a responder (not sure if this is correct.)

I have the KPL.BGH as controllers.

I have the remote.AB as controllers.

I have KPL.1B setup as non-toggle-on.

I have KPL.GH setup as non-toggle-off.

 

As to the controls.

Pressing Remote.A turn on the KPL.1B LED's, turns off the KPL.GH LED's.  It also turns on both lights.  Success.

Pressing Remote.B turn off the KPL.1B LED's, turns on the KPL.GH LED's.  It also turns off both lights.  Success.

 

I want the KPL buttons to do the same thing that a KPL6 button keypad would do.

 

When I press KPL.1 it only turns on the wall light, it does not turn on the fanlight.  I do not have controls to do this.  I'm not sure if setup the controller/responder status correctly??

When I press KPL.B it turns on both lights, and both KPL.1B LEDs.

 

When I press KPL.G it turns off all the physical lights, it turns off KPL.1B LED's but only turns on KPL.G LED, it does not turn on KPL.H LED.

When I press KPL.H it turns off all the physical lights, it turns off KPL.1B LED's but only turns on KPL.H LED, it does not turn on KPL.G LED.

Pressing KPL.G and then KPL.H flips the LEDs and leaves all the other lights off.

 

I have checked the KPL.GH buttons and they are both set to turn off the KPL.1B LED's (they do) and to turn on the opposite KPL.GH LED (they do not.)

 

What did I do wrong here?

Any ideas?
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If you don't want the button to turn the light on, only off, then use a program.

Hey Stu.

Firstly, I like your button legends - they look great.

 

You mention the programming method - I have not attacked programming (yet).

I certainly know how to program in a few languages, but have not yet started on the ISY programming.

 

Would it be too much to ask you to post a couple of examples to do what I want to do?

 

Thanks, Nick.

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SUCCESS!!!

 

I went back to my Patio.Light scene and removed the KPL controllers.

I then added them back as responders.

I then programmed the Remote.A to turn on KPL.1B LEDs and turn off KPL.GH LEDs. - and to turn on all the lights.

I then programmed the Remote.B to turn off KPL.1B LEDs and turn on KPL.GH LEDs. - and to turn off all the lights.

So, my remote still works.

 

I created two new scenes:

PatioLightsON and PatioLightsOFF

I added the KPL.1BGH and fan.light all as receivers.

For ON I set the fan.light and KPL.1B on, and the KPL.GH off.

For OFF I set the fan.light and KPL.1B off, and the KPL.GH on.

 

I then created two programs.

PatioLights.ON

 IF Control 'KPL.1' is switched ON OR Control 'KPL.B' is switched OFF

 then Set Scene 'PatioLightsOn' On.

 else No action.

PatioLights.OFF

 IF Control 'KPL.G' is switched OFF OR Control 'KPL.H' is switched OFF

 then Set Scene 'PatioLightsOFF' On.

 Else No action.

 

Weird things to note about the programs.

The else action does nothing, as I want nothing to happen when I stop pressing the buttons.

The PatioLights.OFF program looks for KPL.G being OFF as the button is set to non-toggle-OFF, ie it sends an OFF signal when it's pressed.

The PatioLights.OFF program calls the Scene "PatioLightsOFF" but sets it to on.  This is counter-intuitive, but basically you are running the scene so it must be on.

 

How did i do?

 

 

WEIRD commnet.

It takes the program about 2 seconds to run.

The button that I press flashes and then all the lights change.

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Yeah, my 8 button can only control two devices.

 

B.R.I.A.D.A.

Best regards,

Gary Funk

 

That can be done.

 

1. 6-button mode

2. Use four large buttons

3. Configure A & B to be non-toggle On

4. Configure C & D to be non-toggle Off

5. Use scenes to cross-link A & B and C & D

6. Add A & B to the C & D scene

 

Optional: 7. Use button presses set the bottom (large) button to be unlit.

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That can be done.

 

1. 6-button mode

2. Use four large buttons

3. Configure A & B to be non-toggle On

4. Configure C & D to be non-toggle Off

5. Use scenes to cross-link A & B and C & D

6. Add A & B to the C & D scene

 

Optional: 7. Use button presses set the bottom (large) button to be unlit.

Or have it control the speeds of two fans.

 

I'm Gary Funk and I approved this message.

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