bbuchanan99 Posted November 26, 2016 Posted November 26, 2016 I just installed a Insteon thermostat in my attic and I want to log the temperature and humidity to a spreadsheet (google sheets???). I want to see trends in temperature and compare it to outside temperature and humidity to try and optimize my heating and cooling system here in South Texas. I don't know much about creating variables or pushing data but I have an ISY to help with programming. Any ideas or hints on how I may accomplish this? I actually have three attics and three thermostats that I would like to do this with. They also control gable fans.
paulbates Posted November 26, 2016 Posted November 26, 2016 Hi Review this post and its references for logging: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/20328-create-web-pages-using-programs-requires-network-module/?hl=log Though in a different climate, I went through this exercise a number of years ago and found i could adjust hvac to get a head start for cooling my upstairs on hot days, and also control excess humidity when it got colder out and use the gable fan. Temp and humidity are distinct, independent concepts for sure Be sure to consider the operating range of the 2441TH: Operating temperature range 4 o to 40o C (39o to 104o F) Operating humidity range 0-90% relative humidity Paul
Teken Posted November 27, 2016 Posted November 27, 2016 (edited) If the Insteon TSTAT is truly installed up in the attic and you indeed live in Texas.Don't expect the hardware to make it past the one season. I would suggest you either move it out of there and use another solution or install the remote temperature probe from Insteon.Unfortunately the probe extension only measures temperature.Heat is the primary killer of electronics besides low grade capacitors not rated for extreme temperatures.A more reasonable, reliable, and higher accuracy comes from using 1 Wire sensors. Depending upon the master controller in use you can see and monitor 0.1 / 0.5 resolution measuring from -55'C to plus 125'C / -67'F to plus 257'F.=========================The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular. Edited November 28, 2016 by Teken
Scottmichaelj Posted November 27, 2016 Posted November 27, 2016 Do it the easy way. Grab the CAO Wireless tags and it will do this all for you! http://wirelesstag.net/
larryllix Posted November 28, 2016 Posted November 28, 2016 (edited) I totally support Scott's CAO Tag idea. They are awesome! They do their own thing and yet stuff variables into ISY with temperature resolution down to 0.001 degree. Humidity is standard and motion/position on most, but Light sensors are available = ALS. but..... you will need the Reed unit for an attic, with remote probe. The regular and Pro units have a range up up to 185 degrees F, while the Reed with probe will tolerate 256 degrees F. The sold probe is a standard 1-Wire probe available on ebay for $0.99. Your attic will most likely fry the regular Tags.. As an example I put a common remote for a wireless thermometer outside on my deck in the snow and a dark painted block of styrofoam, with a clear Pyrex baking dish over it. It went up to just over freezing that day. When I got home the thermometer was registering no connection. I went outside in the snow to see what was wrong and the snesor plastic case had melted and ruined the electronics. I have an out building with the south side roof slope covered in double wall poly/acrylic plastic. Underneath I have dark painted metal sheets with snake formed 3/8" tubing. When the sun shines the water comes out as steam if I don't pump it fast enough. It can be dangerous with boiling water = steam blowing pipes apart. Caution with the heat. IMHO you will need a passive probe and electronics out of the attic space. Edited November 28, 2016 by larryllix
etsvilik Posted November 28, 2016 Posted November 28, 2016 larryllix makes valid point about temperatures and electronics. Unfortunately there is no simple and affordable way to monitor humidity remotely. You really need to monitor both in the attic. I installed Pro sensor in the attic in May and use it to control Attic Fan. In my area - Eastern PA the temperature never went over 135 with Fan effectively removing excess heat from the attic. So far so good. I setup heartbeat program to detect if censor dyes. I keep a spare PRO just in case. It was merely an experiment to see correlations between top floor conditions and attic. Prior I had attic re-insulated, top plate sealed with addition of buffles in eaves. Otherwise you would by sucking warm air and removing humidity in the winter from your house envelope.
builderb Posted November 28, 2016 Posted November 28, 2016 If you don't mind picking up a RasPi, it's not too difficult to use RRDTool or R to create pretty graphs that make spotting trends or anomalies much easier. 1
Scottmichaelj Posted November 29, 2016 Posted November 29, 2016 I say "Hogwash"! I have the cheap and simple wireless temp tag thats only $26. It says it can measure temps up to 185F - I have one in my attic for over a year. Granted the hottest my attic got was 115F but its working well. If your attic is getting hotter than 185F you may want to add a solar panel powered attic fan to cool it. Just my two cents.
larryllix Posted November 29, 2016 Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) Was that the last temperature recorded? I had three of these 120 vac, 2200 cfm attic fans burn out in the heat in my past home. They overheat up there. You must be using the "other" sun. Maybe you can keep the sensor close to the incoming air and get lower readings. Edited November 29, 2016 by larryllix
Teken Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 The reality is unless the hardware is designed and purpose built to sustain extreme operating temperatures it simply won't last. Its not if - its when something will fail. I've been doing this sort of thing for more than 25 years and in many industrial settings. Unless someone is willing to spend the money on a field proven hardware which is temperature rated for extreme operations it will fail. This is why I recommend using 1 Wire sensors that are encapsulated in SS housings. You can embed them into almost anything and they will take the extreme temps from hot to cold with out issue. This can't be said for many electronics these days because the reality is not very many companies test their products for long duration's in those environments for performance life cycles. That only address's the electronics and not the batteries which almost everyone knows is heavily impacted by temperature. Using one method requires planning, time, and investment of funds - but the outcome is long term reliability, durability, and no further expenses and maintenance. While the other will die at some point and requires endless battery replacements which offer varied time frame based on temperature environmentals. Below are a few snap shots of extreme heat and cold in a real world attic in the GWN. None of these temps are extreme for my area but the norm. Yet my system has been running along fine for eight years with out further maintenance or battery changes. 54.5'C = 130.1'F / -30.5'C = -22.9'F I have many other years with data which capture the attic breaking 58.9'C = 138.02'F / -46.3'C = -51.34'F. Anyone who believes a piece of plastic is going to survive in my attic at those temps while offering accurate readings is just dreaming. LOL . . .
Scottmichaelj Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 Point is, it is easy to do and inexpensive. I can afford $25 to replace the tag if it fails in a year. We aren't talking huge money here.
Teken Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 Point is, it is easy to do and inexpensive. I can afford $25 to replace the tag if it fails in a year. We aren't talking huge money here. I would agree if someone had absolutely nothing and wanted a plug & play solution for sure. If on the other hand this was being considered for a long term, reliable, and one time out of pocket expense. Going the route of running cable for a 1 wire system just makes sense in terms of durability and cost(s). I've had my time with battery operated devices and have moved forward to using proven one time solutions. My time is limited and expansive so don't have the same tolerance for wasting my time and money. The benefits of the tags are great though considering what it offers the average user for $26.XX and $49.XX for the tag manager. For me spending $0.99 - 2.39 per sensor depending upon where you get them that lasts almost forever and operates in extreme temperatures just makes sense to me. Having the ability to scale from small to large from 10 to 48 sensors equals what? The Autelis Master controller cost $129.XX Using the extreme price level of $2.39 X 48 1 Wire: $114.72 + 129.00 = $243.72 vs $26.00 X 48 Tags = $1248.00 1248.00 - 243.72 = $1004.28 <-- I don't pretend to know how many 1 wire sensors I could buy as a back up if one failed or how many Autelis controllers to extend my network. But I am sure that's a lot . . . For me it comes down to spending my money once - the first time around.
Scottmichaelj Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 I would agree if someone had absolutely nothing and wanted a plug & play solution for sure. If on the other hand this was being considered for a long term, reliable, and one time out of pocket expense. Going the route of running cable for a 1 wire system just makes sense in terms of durability and cost(s). I've had my time with battery operated devices and have moved forward to using proven one time solutions. My time is limited and expansive so don't have the same tolerance for wasting my time and money. The benefits of the tags are great though considering what it offers the average user for $26.XX and $49.XX for the tag manager. For me spending $0.99 - 2.39 per sensor depending upon where you get them that lasts almost forever and operates in extreme temperatures just makes sense to me. Having the ability to scale from small to large from 10 to 48 sensors equals what? The Autelis Master controller cost $129.XX Using the extreme price level of $2.39 X 48 1 Wire: $114.72 + 129.00 = $243.72 vs $26.00 X 48 Tags = $1248.00 1248.00 - 243.72 = $1004.28 <-- I don't pretend to know how many 1 wire sensors I could buy as a back up if one failed or how many Autelis controllers to extend my network. But I am sure that's a lot . . . For me it comes down to spending my money once - the first time around. That's fine and dandy and I agree with what your saying. However for me the pros outweigh the cons for the tags. My attic did not get hotter than 115F last summer so my tags may last forever. Sure I need to swap out a CR232 battery when it dies but will give me an excuse to clean the air filter while I am up there. If it fails so be it, its not a critical item and like I said $26 each. So while I agree, spend the money to do it right the first time, there was no way I was going to try and wire a new run for 1-wire device to the hub or whatever it needs. If you want to, great but I rather sit on my *** having a glass of wine then sweating my *** off in the attic cussing myself out for putting myself through that pain for something I could literally do in 5mins! Add tag totag manager, open attic access, toss tag in attic, close access, donzo. Go have some wine. Not all projects need to spend money and time on. However its up to each person to decide.
Teken Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 I agree there isn't a one size fits all for everyone that is why having choices is great. I also have to concede running more than five miles worth of wiring isn't fun. But the investment in time, effort, and one time expanse has paid off for me - going strong eight years and counting. Plenty of time for me to kick back a cold one . . .
G W Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 I would agree if someone had absolutely nothing and wanted a plug & play solution for sure. If on the other hand this was being considered for a long term, reliable, and one time out of pocket expense. Going the route of running cable for a 1 wire system just makes sense in terms of durability and cost(s). I've had my time with battery operated devices and have moved forward to using proven one time solutions. My time is limited and expansive so don't have the same tolerance for wasting my time and money. The benefits of the tags are great though considering what it offers the average user for $26.XX and $49.XX for the tag manager. For me spending $0.99 - 2.39 per sensor depending upon where you get them that lasts almost forever and operates in extreme temperatures just makes sense to me. Having the ability to scale from small to large from 10 to 48 sensors equals what? The Autelis Master controller cost $129.XX Using the extreme price level of $2.39 X 48 1 Wire: $114.72 + 129.00 = $243.72 vs $26.00 X 48 Tags = $1248.00 1248.00 - 243.72 = $1004.28 <-- I don't pretend to know how many 1 wire sensors I could buy as a back up if one failed or how many Autelis controllers to extend my network. But I am sure that's a lot . . . For me it comes down to spending my money once - the first time around. What equipment are you using? I'm Gary Funk and I approved this message.
Teken Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 What equipment are you using? I'm Gary Funk and I approved this message. You just quoted the hardware . . .
G W Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 You just quoted the hardware . . .Sensors... . I'm Gary Funk and I approved this message.
Scottmichaelj Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 What equipment are you using? I'm Gary Funk and I approved this message. You just quoted the hardware . . . Yup $1200+ literally more than 10 times the cost not including labor. The CAO tags cost maybe $100 - $79 for the tag manager and $26 for the tag. Setup is easy.
Teken Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 Sensors... . I'm Gary Funk and I approved this message. Dallas 1 Wire DS18B20 sensors . . . Yup $1200+ literally more than 10 times the cost not including labor. The CAO tags cost maybe $100 - $79 for the tag manager and $26 for the tag. Setup is easy. Where do you get $1200 from?!?!
Scottmichaelj Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 (edited) Dallas 1 Wire DS18B20 sensors . . . Where do you get $1200 from?!?! Your post above. Granted its 48 of them. Who cares this is boring me. Lets find something else more interesting to fight over. Your mommas so ugly... Edited November 30, 2016 by Scottmichaelj
Teken Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 Your post above. Granted its 48 of them. Who cares this is boring me. Lets find something else more interesting to fight over. Your mommas so ugly... LOL . . . Oh Scotty . . .
G W Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 Especially when two items are compared that don't serve the same functions. I'm Gary Funk and I approved this message.
larryllix Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 Very strange. Let's satisfy both arguments with a DS18B20 1-wire sensor into the provided input on the bottom of the CAO Reed Tag see post #5. There is a reason the OP and you have installed a ventilation fan in your attic. There is also a reason some placed electronics in their cooled attic space to monitor it. BTW: your momma looked OK to me.
Teken Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 Especially when two items are compared that don't serve the same functions. I'm Gary Funk and I approved this message. Are you saying monitoring the temperature isn't the same function?!?
G W Posted November 30, 2016 Posted November 30, 2016 Are you saying monitoring the temperature isn't the same function?!? No. I'm Gary Funk and I approved this message.
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