How will 2441TH with 2441ZTH work with an ISY?

[ctownj30]

I've been using ZWave thermostats but I'm switching to a 2441TH with 2441ZTH wireless unit.  The wireless unit will be the "Master" almost all of the time (putting it in a baby's room to maintain constant temperature).

 

I'm having trouble getting a clear understanding of how these two units work together, and how they will work with the ISY - I've been reading through forums but still have questions:

 

• With the Wireless unit set as Master, if I physically adjust mode (heat/cool) and temperature settings on the Wired unit, will it automatically adjust the settings on the Wireless unit (or do those changes have no effect, since the Wired unit is not Master)?
  
   
• I've read that the Wireless unit does not report its current settings (mode, current temperature/humidity, current heat/cool point) unless you press buttons on it (as a power saving feature) - is that really true?  Does that mean I cannot look at my ISY and see the current settings, etc.?
   
• In the ISY, once this is set up, I assume that I will see both the Wired and Wireless units listed as thermostats.  With the Wireless unit set as Master, if I wanted to change the heat/cool setpoint, mode, etc., would I make that change in the ISY to the Wireless unit, the Wired unit, or does it not matter which I change?

 

Hoping someone can clear this up for me.  I've already bought the units but have not fully switched to them yet.

Thanks  - Dan

[LFMc]

Dan,

 

I do not have direct written knowledge of the following facts, they are from my "experiences" with using several of the 2441TH and ZTH products in my home with an ISY 994i. Please, anyone, feel free to correct my observations. 

 

Changing the "master" setting only changes the location of the sensor that picks up the local temperature to trigger the AC or heat to come on or go off. Anything you input on any unit as a set point change or system on/off setting will be shared automatically between the two or more units. So, since the ZTH only wakes up when it's local temp or humidity changes (unless you press a button on it), then when remotely changing any setting by the UDI ajax, admin or dashboard, I always change the wired unit settings as it will update the wireless when it checks in later. I'm not sure, but I think the ZTH also checks in on a time schedule to save battery life.  I have heard you can attach the ZTH to an external power supply and it will stay on constantly. 

 

--Leon

Edited November 30, 2016 by LFMc

[larryllix]

On AC the 2441ZTH only report humidity faster Nothing else changes.

[Techman]

On AC the 2441ZTH only report humidity faster Nothing else changes.

 

 

With A/C power on the 2441ZTH it will report humidity in real time and temperature with every 2 degree change. You're also able to query the stat and make changes without having to put it into linking mode.

[steveng57]

So after reading this thread, I decided to add an adapter to my 2441zth, and go from battery to plugged, and indeed it does the things that Techman and others say.  Importantly, you can query the device now, as well and set the Heat and Cool set points via ISY programs.  So I can now programatically set the thing to a different set point at night and when I am away!! Very cool.

 

Little tip: after reading the spec on the adapter it needed (it says 5v to 6v, 200mA (min)), I realized that most USB adapters are 5v.  So I dove into my junk devices bin, found an old USB adapter, sure enough 5v and 500 mA.  Then found a USB cable, not sure the actual type, but its the kind that goes from PC to a printer.  I cut off the wires on one end, stripped the red and put it on the positive in the 24441zth, and did the same for the black on the negative.  And viola, worked like a charm!!! 

[larryllix]

So after reading this thread, I decided to add an adapter to my 2441zth, and go from battery to plugged, and indeed it does the things that Techman and others say.  Importantly, you can query the device now, as well and set the Heat and Cool set points via ISY programs.  So I can now programatically set the thing to a different set point at night and when I am away!! Very cool.

 

Little tip: after reading the spec on the adapter it needed (it says 5v to 6v, 200mA (min)), I realized that most USB adapters are 5v.  So I dove into my junk devices bin, found an old USB adapter, sure enough 5v and 500 mA.  Then found a USB cable, not sure the actual type, but its the kind that goes from PC to a printer.  I cut off the wires on one end, stripped the red and put it on the positive in the 24441zth, and did the same for the black on the negative.  And viola, worked like a charm!!!

 

I left the batteries in mine. Now I also have battery backup.

[Techman]

I left the batteries in mine. Now I also have battery backup.

 

Be careful,  I just had to trash a 2441zth because the batteries leaked and destroyed the circuit board. There's no way to warn you if the batteries fail when you're on AC power.

[G W]

Be careful, I just had to trash a 2441zth because the batteries leaked and destroyed the circuit board. There's no way to warn you if the batteries fail when you're on AC power.

Yes, non-rechargeable batteries don't like reverse current flow.

 

I'm Gary Funk and I approved this message.

[larryllix]

Yes, non-rechargeable batteries don't like reverse current flow.

I'm Gary Funk and I approved this message.

I checked that. There is no backfeed. They must be diode ORed in.

[larryllix]

Be careful,  I just had to trash a 2441zth because the batteries leaked and destroyed the circuit board. There's no way to warn you if the batteries fail when you're on AC power.

I only buy alkaline batteries and they **were** (years back) leakproof, mostly but they are making them cheaper and I have had a few, leak slightly, over the years.

 

Thanks.

[ctownj30]

Thanks LFMc and Techman - answered all my questions - all is installed now and working just like you said it would.

[ctownj30]

Everything has been working fine but I'm seeing one issue:  I have (and always want) the wireless unit to be the Master.  Three times now the wired unit has spontaneously reverted to the Master unit for no obvious reason.

I thought maybe my wife was monkeying with buttons but then it happened while she was away.

 

Its a pretty big problem: suddenly its 78 degrees in the baby's room instead of 68...  Any idea what is going on?

[Techman]

Everything has been working fine but I'm seeing one issue:  I have (and always want) the wireless unit to be the Master.  Three times now the wired unit has spontaneously reverted to the Master unit for no obvious reason.

I thought maybe my wife was monkeying with buttons but then it happened while she was away.

 

Its a pretty big problem: suddenly its 78 degrees in the baby's room instead of 68...  Any idea what is going on?

 

Set the wireless thermostat as a master. Does the master setting then, and should, turn off on the wired unit?

 

Note: the manual states that the wireless unit must be linked to the master for this to work. I'm not sure if linking both units via the ISY accomplishes this or if you have to link them manually.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Techman

[stusviews]

They need to be manually linked. BTW, I read about that problem on a different forum some time ago (more than a year) and nothing since--until now.

[larryllix]

Everything has been working fine but I'm seeing one issue:  I have (and always want) the wireless unit to be the Master.  Three times now the wired unit has spontaneously reverted to the Master unit for no obvious reason.

I thought maybe my wife was monkeying with buttons but then it happened while she was away.

 

Its a pretty big problem: suddenly its 78 degrees in the baby's room instead of 68...  Any idea what is going on?

Maybe you never had a temperature monitor in that room before and with a two story house, the air stratification,  now heating season has started, always makes that room a lot warmer than downstairs?

 

Once you start monitoring it, it is amazing how much stratification happens in a house when the circulation fan doesnt circulate enough.

 

Answer for that? Have a return air duct in each room, keep the door closed, and get a baby monitor, so the nervous mother can watch them on video, until they move out at 35.

Edited December 9, 2016 by larryllix

[ctownj30]

Yup, they are manually linked and working correctly in that regard.  Its just that the wired unit will spontaneously take over Master status.  I make the wireless Master again (hold Master button till it beeps and Master shows up in the middle of the screen) and things are fine for a while until it happens again.

[stusviews]

Do you have the 2441THZ on batteries of a power supply? If on batteries, then a power supply may help. You can use any 5VDC supply. USB power supplies are 5VDC.

[ctownj30]

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

The 2441THZ wireless unit is on external 5V power (with no batteries installed).  Incidentally, the issue seemed to start after I switched to external power, but could be coincidence.

 

The Wireless unit is definitely losing Master status (not confusion about temperatures).  The wireless unit will be the Master (as noted by a big font Master in the center of the screen on the wireless unit, and a small font Master on the wired unit at the top of the screen).  Then, hours later and seemingly spontaneously, the roles will have switched themselves (big Master on the wired unit, little Master on the wireless, and the wired unit clearly in charge).

[larryllix]

I can remember a few previous threads, maybe a year or two back, where people complained of the same thing, switching masters back, randomly.

Edited December 9, 2016 by larryllix

[ctownj30]

I may have figured it out.  With the wireless unit set to Master, if I adjust the temperature on the wired unit via the ISY (actually using MobilLinc Pro for Android), it will set the wired unit to Master in the process.

 

As we determined way above, you should be able to adjust the temp on either unit and it will keep them in sync, but for some reason when going through the ISY it changes the Master status to the wired unit.

It does not seem to work the other way around (i.e.: if I then adjust the temp on the wireless unit via the ISY, Master does NOT revert to the wireless unit).

If this is just how it works, surprised others are not running into this.

[LFMc]

I may have figured it out.  With the wireless unit set to Master, if I adjust the temperature on the wired unit via the ISY (actually using MobilLinc Pro for Android), it will set the wired unit to Master in the process.

 

As we determined way above, you should be able to adjust the temp on either unit and it will keep them in sync, but for some reason when going through the ISY it changes the Master status to the wired unit.

It does not seem to work the other way around (i.e.: if I then adjust the temp on the wireless unit via the ISY, Master does NOT revert to the wireless unit).

If this is just how it works, surprised others are not running into this.

As mentioned earlier in my reply at the start of this post, I almost exclusively only adjust the wired unit (via my ISY) while all my wireless units are masters and I don't seem to have this problem. Or possibly I am less sensitive to it and haven't noticed it.  

 

Try a test. Set the wireless to master, unplug the power supply for a 15-30 minutes, then plug it back in and see if that triggers the wired unit to become the master. Maybe you have a weak or faulty power supply. You might also put batteries back in to act as backup power. 

 

BTW, all my wireless units are battery only. Replacing batteries once or twice a year is not a problem for me. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by LFMc

[Techman]

One other possibility - if the units are linked manually it possible that the ISY doesn't have the correct/complete link tables. which may be causing the master to revert to the wired unit.

 

What happens if you adjust only the wireless unit rather than the wired unit via the ISY/Mobillinc?

[ctownj30]

Played with this some more and here's a status update.  Based on LFMc's suggestion I started looking at the power setup.  First I disconnected the power and put the batteries back in.  Ran for 5 days like with with zero random Master switching - ok so it must be my power supply.  Switched to a different power supply (this one 1 amp; previous was only 200 mAh) - same problem - 2 random Master switches in one day.

 

Tried putting the batteries back in (so battery and external power applied) and still getting Master-switching.  So basically whenever something is providing external power, I get random switching.  Given all of this, seems like I have to conclude that there is something wrong with the wireless unit, unless anyone has any new ideas!

 

Thanks - djm

[ctownj30]

Update: talking to SmartHome rep: this is a known issue.  Says even if he sent me a new one, it would have the same problem.  They may or may not have a solution pending - basically its just a known bug.

 

Looks like my only solution (assuming I want the features that DC-power allow) is to use two separate z-wave thermostats and set up an ISY program to let one control the other.

 

Annoying.