Is it possible to make an ISY scene behave like a device?

[fasttimes]

From Echo, I'd like to be able to override a scene where each device has it's own level to be specified for Echo.

 

eg.  Alexa, set Master to 50%

 

Since Master is a group of lights and switches it can only go on or off to the pre-defined levels.  Alexa doesn't even allow a dim level to be set.

 

But if Alexa were to see it as a switch, it could send the command to the ISY and the ISY should be able to process the scene by multiplying each device's scene level by .5

 

Thoughts?

 

 

EDIT: Changed the topic title from:

 

Is it possible to make an scene behave like a device?

 

to

 

Is it possible to make an ISY scene behave like a device?

Edited December 19, 2016 by fasttimes

[G W]

That's not how scenes work. Remember, a scene is stored outside the ISY.

 

Alexa can only issue commands to the ISY so look at Alexa ss a middle man to pass orders. In this case it can't be done in the ISY. I don't think you can do it in s program either.

 

However, I think that's a nice feature to have so maybe UDI could look at this after 5.0 goes into producton.

 

 

Gary Funk

Merry Christmas

Edited December 18, 2016 by GaryFunk

[larryllix]

As you stated....a scene is a group of predefined levels.  You can create as many scenes as you would like with your devices.

 

 if you want to dim something, dim any device.

 

• Alexa. turn on chair lights to 15 percent.

works just fine.

[Jimbo.Automates]

I've asked for this many times but get denied "because insteon does not work​ that way". I want this because for example I have a lamplinc "floor lamp" that is controlled by a scene where a KPL button is the scene controller. So if I add the lamplinc to Alexa then I can fully control the brightness of the device, but of course the KPL does not come on when the floor lamp is on, so I can not turn off the floor lamp with the KPL. So instead I add the scene to Alexa so the KPL can be used to turn it off when Alexa turns it on. But now I can not control the brightness, expect with dim and brighten commands. This is the main reason I still use ISYHelper, because it allows setting all scene devices brightness levels directly when the scene is the main device thru Alexa. It could be done if UDI chose to, and make it an option to control a scene as a group. But insteon doesn't work that way...

 

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

[dywicked]

I've asked for this many times but get denied "because insteon does not work​ that way". I want this because for example I have a lamplinc "floor lamp" that is controlled by a scene where a KPL button is the scene controller. So if I add the lamplinc to Alexa then I can fully control the brightness of the device, but of course the KPL does not come on when the floor lamp is on, so I can not turn off the floor lamp with the KPL. So instead I add the scene to Alexa so the KPL can be used to turn it off when Alexa turns it on. But now I can not control the brightness, expect with dim and brighten commands. This is the main reason I still use ISYHelper, because it allows setting all scene devices brightness levels directly when the scene is the main device thru Alexa. It could be done if UDI chose to, and make it an option to control a scene as a group. But insteon doesn't work that way...

 

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Yeah, the "Insteon doesn't work that way" thing bugs me too - I get it, but also who cares.

 

Implementing a virtual device that behaves like an uncrippled scene wouldn't be crazy difficult. Sure, there should be a warning about the excessive traffic, perhaps even limitations on the maximum number of devices in the virtual, but it would be super useful.

 

My use case is identical to yours Jimbo, and I've worked around it a couple of ways - using your ISYHelper, as well as by using a combination of Alexa Groups and a program on ISY. It would be nice if the abstraction could be done at the ISY, as this would really keep latency to a minimum.

 

-David

[Jimbo.Automates]

And please nobody lecture on why insteon doesn't work that way! I completely understand and appreciate and use that ability, but also want a way for it to work for what I am asking as well

[larryllix]

And please nobody lecture on why insteon doesn't work that way! I completely understand and appreciate and use that ability, but also want a way for it to work for what I am asking as well

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I guess I may not be clear on what is the desired outcome here but..

 

The insteon protocol....

 

J/k

Having posted (mine) the above, did you know you can set device levels in scenes, using ISY programs, provided you pre-set them before usage?

 

It's just that is always seems to be hidden from users in the menus and you, or others, may not be aware of it. I had it pounded into my head by Xathros years ago, and I still can get caught, as I did in a thread back a month ago.

Edited December 18, 2016 by larryllix

[Jimbo.Automates]

Yes, very aware and use it a lot. But that doesn't solve my request

 

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

[larryllix]

Yes, very aware and use it a lot. But that doesn't solve my request

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

OK. (pulling teeth here )

 

So we have a scene with three devices preset, in the scene, to

Device1 = 75%

Device2 = 50%

Device3 = 60%

 

And you then want to be able to set a scene on at 50% resulting in

Device1 = 37.5%

Device2 = 25%

Device3 = 30%

 

Have I got it right now?

Edited December 18, 2016 by larryllix

[Jimbo.Automates]

I am very confused on what you are trying to answer. I said I am aware why people don't like what I asked for, but are you trying to prove that to me again?

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[larryllix]

I am very confused on what you are trying to answer. I said I am aware why people don't like what I asked for, but are you trying to prove that to me again?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Huh? No!

 

I think I have seen this asked for previously (maybe you), as well as the OP, but I just don't understand the usage or the significance of what you are asking for, and feel I am probably not uderstanding what you want to do.

 

Since it sounds familiar I wonder what feature I would be missing without it.

 

I posted an example of function in an attempt to see if I have it correct, since no further explanations were forthcoming, that's all.

Edited December 18, 2016 by larryllix

[G W]

I am very confused on what you are trying to answer. I said I am aware why people don't like what I asked for, but are you trying to prove that to me again?

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

He's ASKING you if the second part is your goal.

 

I'm Gary Funk and I wrote this message.

[Jimbo.Automates]

I'm not in the mood right now to hash it all over again. There are a few different scenarios and I'm busy Trying to watch NFL and NBA and enhance ISYHelper. It's been discussed a few times before.

 

And gary, no need to post again after he did I got it.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[G W]

I'm not in the mood right now to hash it all over again. There are a few different scenarios and I'm busy Trying to watch NFL and NBA and enhance ISYHelper. It's been discussed a few times before.

 

And gary, no need to post again after he did I got it.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I'm sorry. I won't ever bother you again.

 

I'm Gary Funk and I wrote this message.

[stusviews]

You can dim or brighten a scene in increments, 9% at a time. But, there's a more elegant solution. Create a group with all the devices and the scene, give the group a unique name and issue the command to the group, that is, "Alexa, set the group_name to 50%."

[Jimbo.Automates]

You can dim or brighten a scene in increments, 9% at a time. But, there's a more elegant solution. Create a group with all the devices and the scene, give the group a unique name and issue the command to the group, that is, "Alexa, set the group_name to 50%."

Thanks, group is an option. But that is exactly what I am asking the ISY to support natively thru the portal. Or preferably with a rest command.

 

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

[Jimbo.Automates]

You can dim or brighten a scene in increments, 9% at a time. But, there's a more elegant solution. Create a group with all the devices and the scene, give the group a unique name and issue the command to the group, that is, "Alexa, set the group_name to 50%."

Actually, that doesn't​ solve keeping the kpl is sync does it? If I say turn on group name to 20% the kpl controller won't come on?

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[oberkc]

Actually, that doesn't​ solve keeping the kpl is sync does it? If I say turn on group name to 20% the kpl controller won't come on?

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Cqn you not include the kpl in the echo group?

[Michel Kohanim]

Jimbo,

 

It seems that you feel we have all the resources and time in the world and should just drop everything and do this one feature (regardless of what is supported in 4.5.x and how to handle legacy vs. INSTEON vs. Z-Wave vs. all the other requirements). Of course we can and it's called multi-protocol scene in 5.0.7.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[stusviews]

Actually, that doesn't​ solve keeping the kpl is sync does it? If I say turn on group name to 20% the kpl controller won't come on?

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

A KPL secondary button cannot be directly controlled. You must put the button in a scene (even if it's the only scene member) and control the scene.(i.e., add the button scene to the group).

[oberkc]

Actually, that doesn't​ solve keeping the kpl is sync does it? If I say turn on group name to 20% the kpl controller won't come on?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Another possibility I recall...at what point is a keypad button "on"? 20%? Anything over 1%?

 

I recall a similar situation at my house where I was using a togglelinc relay as a scene controller. I had come to believe that the togglelinc relay would show ON only as the responding device reached about 50%.

 

Clearly I am speculating at this point, but it may be worthiwhile considering that possibility.

[Jimbo.Automates]

 

 

Jimbo,

 

It seems that you feel we have all the resources and time in the world and should just drop everything and do this one feature (regardless of what is supported in 4.5.x and how to handle legacy vs. INSTEON vs. Z-Wave vs. all the other requirements). Of course we can and it's called multi-protocol scene in 5.0.7.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Wow Michel, sorry if I gave that impression that I was demanding this feature now. I have asked a couple times in the past and was told it is not possible due to how insteon works. I always discuss and make suggestions and never expect any current plans to be dropped.

 

I will drop off the forum and not think about how to improve anything.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[larryllix]

Apparently not many of us have any idea what you are asking for. It sure doesn't seem to the same as the OP was asking since the topic has rolled a few times.

 

It has to be the male shopping perfomance pressure at Festivus season

Edited December 19, 2016 by larryllix

[fasttimes]

OK. (pulling teeth here )

 

So we have a scene with three devices preset, in the scene, to

Device1 = 75%

Device2 = 50%

Device3 = 60%

 

And you then want to be able to set a scene on at 50% resulting in

Device1 = 37.5%

Device2 = 25%

Device3 = 30%

 

Have I got it right now?

 

THIS.

 

I always think of scenes as ISY scenes.  Insteon scenes are simply a grouping of insteon devices independent of the ISY controller , whereas an ISY scene does two things.  1) it assists you to setup an insteon scene and 2) allows you to execute an insteon scene via the ISY.

[stusviews]

Another possibility I recall...at what point is a keypad button "on"? 20%? Anything over 1%?

 

I recall a similar situation at my house where I was using a togglelinc relay as a scene controller. I had come to believe that the togglelinc relay would show ON only as the responding device reached about 50%.

 

Clearly I am speculating at this point, but it may be worthiwhile considering that possibility.

 

Keypad buttons are either on or off. Relay LEDs are either on or off no matter the load it's controlling. SwitchLinc dimmers show more LEDs as the level is increased. ToggleLinc dimmers have only one LED, so it's behavior may be different. I don't have any ToggleLincs to test.