6 button/8 button conversion

[MarkJames]

I'm not sure if this is a bug or if this is just the way things are but I noticed an odd behavior today.

 

I'm replacing a KPL 6 that's failed (if anyone knows someone who repairs these I'd be interested to know).  I accidentally ordered a KPL-8 instead by mistake

 

No matter, I thought - I just swapped the faceplates and did the switch over described in the documentation to change it from 8 button to 6 button operation.  All good.

 

However - when I add the device to my ISY it DETECTS it with 6 positions (main plus A through D) but it SHOWS UP in the ISY description as an 8 button KPL.  

 

The significance of this is that when I try to do a device replace from the 6 that failed to the 8 converted to 6 I can't do it as 8 converted to 6 doesn't show in the list of devices available to swap with.

 

mark

Edited December 21, 2016 by MarkJames

[Teken]

I'm not sure if this is a bug or if this is just the way things are but I noticed an odd behavior today.

 

I'm replacing a KPL 6 that's failed (if anyone knows someone who repairs these I'd be interested to know).  I accidentally ordered a KPL-8 instead by mistake

 

No matter, I thought - I just swapped the faceplates and did the switch over described in the documentation to change it from 8 button to 6 button operation.  All good.

 

However - when I add the device to my ISY it DETECTS it with 6 positions (main plus A through D) but it SHOWS UP in the ISY description as an 8 button KPL.  

 

The significance of this is that when I try to do a device replace from the 6 that failed to the 8 converted to 6 I can't do it as 8 converted to 6 doesn't show in the list of devices available to swap with.

 

mark

 

Hello Mark,

 

That is a pretty unique and interesting problem you have listed out. I don't believe many of us have been using that exact setup per say.

 

Normally people take a 6 and convert it to a 8 and no issues are seen. But you received a 8 KPL and converted it into a 6 but like you said the system knows its a 8 vs a 6 KPL. As painful as it may sound the easiest approach would be to change the bad one from 6 to 8.

 

Then see if you can use the replace with from there - which obviously hinges on the fact the bad one will let you?

 

NOTE: If you're interested in repairing the KPL I made an extensive how to for that very purpose. Let me know if your interested and I shall send you the link.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Teken

[MarkJames]

Thanks Teken,

 

I've done the switch over - I just had to manually add the switch to all the scenes needed and then delete the old one.  It was controller/responder to quite a number of scenes so it took me the better part of an hour to do it.  Fortunately it works now and all is well.  I sure hope it doesn't revert to 8 position after the inevitable power failure we're sure to have here before winter is over   That was a problem with the very first iterations of the KPL's that came with both 6 and 8 button keypads

 

I was just posting this in case it's something overlooked in the 'replace device' featureset of ISY - which is one of the things I like most about ISY.  Perhaps there are innate differences between the 2 that prevent ISY from being able to do a replace this way.  

 

I would very much appreciate a link to your repair guide.  I have a number of KPL's that I've accumulated lately that 'buzz' and no longer work.  One that flickers the lights on the load on and off non-stop (this since a recent power failure).  At the better part of a  $100 a hit it'd be nice to bring them back to life.  The only ISY devices that I've repaired so far are the outdoor switch modules.  Those came with crappy relays that failed after not very long and were a simple swap.

 

Mark

Edited December 21, 2016 by MarkJames

[Teken]

Mark,

 

PM sent to the KPL repair guide . . .

[PhanTomiZ]

Teken,

Can you send me the link too... You wouldn't happen to have links for the leak detector and the dimmer module.  I have one of each that are out of order.

Thanks in advance

PhanTomiZ

[Teken]

Teken,

Can you send me the link too... You wouldn't happen to have links for the leak detector and the dimmer module.  I have one of each that are out of order.

Thanks in advance

PhanTomiZ

 

I will send you the link via PM - I have never had a leak sensor / trigger link ever fail though. I have however repaired the plugin lamp linc / and dual band ones but sadly didn't document that repair process.

 

When I have more time I probably will as I had two of them fail and just waiting for me to repair. 

[stusviews]

Thanks Teken,

 

I've done the switch over - I just had to manually add the switch to all the scenes needed and then delete the old one.  It was controller/responder to quite a number of scenes so it took me the better part of an hour to do it.  Fortunately it works now and all is well.  I sure hope it doesn't revert to 8 position after the inevitable power failure we're sure to have here before winter is over   That was a problem with the very first iterations of the KPL's that came with both 6 and 8 button keypads

 

When you select "Replace device_name with" for any 6- or 8-button KPL you should be give a choice of any 6- or 8-button KPL that you have added to the ISY. This is one of the few cases where an exact match is not required. Although the ISY will list the KPL as its native mode, the KPL will function as the mode you placed it in.

[MarkJames]

When you select "Replace device_name with" for any 6- or 8-button KPL you should be give a choice of any 6- or 8-button KPL that you have added to the ISY. This is one of the few cases where an exact match is not required. Although the ISY will list the KPL as its native mode, the KPL will function as the mode you placed it in.

 

Apparently not... hence my original post.

[Teken]

Unfortunately, someone in the household decided to dump some remaining ice into my bathroom sink which caused the drain to condensate thus drenching my sensor from the top down.  I got to it about 6 hours later.  Took it apart and cleaned and dried it good.  It worked for about a week and then gave me alarms.  I took it apart again and found oxidization.  Cleaned it with flux remover and a toothbrush.  That fixed it for about 1 month and then it completely died.

PhanTomiZ 

 

Given there are quite a few SMD on the little board I would hazard to guess either the transistors are fried or best case there is some bridging / shorting present.

 

Its easier said then done if you don't have a heated air gun / pencil to remove SMD parts. But you could use some Deoxit if you have any on hand if not some isopropyl alcohol and swab components?

 

You have a 50/50 chance it might remove any electrical shorts in the hardware - if its a IC sadly you are SOL. 

Edited December 21, 2016 by Teken

[stusviews]

Edit: Improved view

 

 

Edited December 21, 2016 by stusviews

[Teken]

Maybe the OP has a conflicting firmware / UI?

[stusviews]

Maybe the OP has a conflicting firmware / UI?

 

That can certainly interfere with ISY features.

[Teken]

Edit: Improved view

 

replace4.jpg

 

Oh thank goodness - The previous upload had me squinting for about five minutes and still couldn't make it all out.

[npearl]

 

NOTE: If you're interested in repairing the KPL I made an extensive how to for that very purpose. Let me know if your interested and I shall send you the link.

I'm (very) interested... have several keypads that have gone strange. 

 

Also interested in finding a way to disable the "Load-sensing" feature on OutletLincs - I use several for Christmas lighting and since converting to LED, the load-sense current leaves them on dimly (and in the case of one treetop star with a switching power supply, flashing at 0.5 Hz!).  Anyone have access to OutletLinc schematics?

[Bumbershoot]

I'm (very) interested... have several keypads that have gone strange. 

 

Also interested in finding a way to disable the "Load-sensing" feature on OutletLincs - I use several for Christmas lighting and since converting to LED, the load-sense current leaves them on dimly (and in the case of one treetop star with a switching power supply, flashing at 0.5 Hz!).  Anyone have access to OutletLinc schematics?

 

I'm running 5.0.8, and in the Admin Console you can select the OutletLinc, click on the "Options" button and you'll be presented with a dialogue that presents you with the ability select/deselect load sensing for either outlet.  Sorry, but I don't recall if this is the case with earlier firmware/UI versions.

[npearl]

Thanks, but its not the proframmed action I'm trying to get rid of - its the residual voltage that the hardware puts out even when switched off, in order to detect a load switching on-off-on. The resulting leakage current is enough to light LEDs.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bumbershoot]

Thanks, but its not the proframmed action I'm trying to get rid of - its the residual voltage that the hardware puts out even when switched off, in order to detect a load switching on-off-on. The resulting leakage current is enough to light LEDs.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the clarification.  I've never noticed this with my Christmas LEDs / OutletLincs, but now I'll look for it.

[stusviews]

v.4+ also has the load sense option, but that doesn't help with really low loads. The usual solution is to add a night light to the load using a triple tap.