Motion Sensor Question

[jgcharlotte]

I haven't come across this specific answer in 'search'.

If 'sensing mode' is checked, it is my understanding that motion is sensed during the timeout period, the timer is reset, but it DOES NOT send an ON signal until motion is sensed again after the timeout.

In other words, if the delay is set for 60 minutes, the timer will be reset if motion is detected before 60 minutes, and OFF command will be sent after 6o minutes, but no ON commands will be sent during that time.

Is that correct?

For an occupancy sensor, I don't want an ON command sent out during the 60 minute delay, seems like a lot of unnecessary network traffic.

 

Edited December 25, 2016 by jgcharlotte

[oberkc]

I think it might be something a little different.  I understand that, in "sense" mode, the motion sensor will send ON commands at each detect, regardless of the timer.  I am a little fuzzy about the effect of the timer, but assume that the internal timer would be also reset.

 

If you don't want the ON command sent until after the timeout, then you do NOT want it in "sense" mode.

[larryllix]

The timer is when the Off will be sent. The motion detection blanking is a separate and not user settable timer. IIRC it is about 2 minutes specified in the manual.

 

The two timers are not related.

[jgcharlotte]

I guess I'd like to see it keep resetting the OFF timer without sending ON when motion is sensed, then send OFF if there is no motion when the timer times out.  Classic 'off delay' function.

Edited December 25, 2016 by jgcharlotte

[oberkc]

In my mind, best approach is to use an ISY program to control the timing function and when to reset. It is much more flexible.

[jgcharlotte]

I agree, it is definitely more flexible, but it's a lot more network traffic if the MS is sending an ON every time there is motion.  Impacts battery life also.

[larryllix]

If the Off is enabled it is sending an Off everytime it cycles also.

 

It is a lot easier to handle if it only ends an On, everytime it see motion.

 

If you have a long time timer, you should be able to use the conserve function.

[stusviews]

If you use a program to turn off the device(s) controlled by the MS, then you must select send an On each time as motion is sensed. Doing so will reset the program timer.

[paulbates]

If you use a program to turn off the device(s) controlled by the MS, then you must select send an On each time as motion is sensed. Doing so will reset the program timer.

 

I send an on each time for my back deck and driveway. That way it stays on for my for my specified time of 4.5 minutes, if someone doesn't get out of their car for few minutes, or... more likely if they get in to warm their car up for a few before backing out in winter. That makes it better for visitors than it flashing on and off a few times. I change batteries twice a year which I'm good with.

 

Paul 

[stusviews]

It's not a good ides to warm up an engine for more that half a minute. It really doesn't help and wastes gas. Search Google for "warming up an engine." Although there's some arguments to do it, look who says no and who says yes. I go with the more authoritative posters.

 

I stopped that practice more than two decades ago

[paulbates]

Thanks Stu, its whatever somebody does when they arrive or leave. A better example this time of year is brushing snow off of a car. They may get behind the car, the "On" isnt sent, and then the lights go off. Then they come around the car and the lights go back on.

 

My requirement is to keep the driveway and deck lit up until: 

• somebody pulls in the driveway gets out of their car and comes in the house, or... 
• until they leave the house, get into their car and drive away..

... and not going on / off / on / off several times for either of those activities because of warming up, snow removal, loading the car, etc,..

 

I've used and prefer "signal on every sense", "Send On Only". and have a program to turn it off after X minutes.

 

Paul

[larryllix]

Doing the Off timer in ISY allows you to change the time delay. In the middle of the night you may not want you tripp to the toilet to leave the light on for 15 minutes, but during the day you may not want it to keep going off while you sitting motionless on the throne.

Edited December 27, 2016 by larryllix

[jgcharlotte]

Looks like I'll just move the timing function to the ISY and use 'on' only.

Thanks all.

[IndyMike]

Hello jgcharlotte,

 

My information may be a bit dated - most of my devices are V1.1 2420M sensors (Old).  The behavior you are looking for below is exactly what I get with the "sensing mode" unchecked.

 

I've just verified this with my spare sensor.  With the "sensing mode" unchecked:

 

1) sensor sends an "On" at first motion, then an off after 30 seconds if no additional motion is detected.

2) sensor sends an "On' at first motion, and recognizes additional motion but does not transmit.  It re-starts the 30 sec motion timer at each event.  After 30 sec with "no motion", it will send an off.

 

If this is what you are looking for, I don't believe you need any program intervention.

 

 

I guess I'd like to see it keep resetting the OFF timer without sending ON when motion is sensed, then send OFF if there is no motion when the timer times out.  Classic 'off delay' function.

[jgcharlotte]

Hello jgcharlotte,

 

My information may be a bit dated - most of my devices are V1.1 2420M sensors (Old).  The behavior you are looking for below is exactly what I get with the "sensing mode" unchecked.

 

I've just verified this with my spare sensor.  With the "sensing mode" unchecked:

 

1) sensor sends an "On" at first motion, then an off after 30 seconds if no additional motion is detected.

2) sensor sends an "On' at first motion, and recognizes additional motion but does not transmit.  It re-starts the 30 sec motion timer at each event.  After 30 sec with "no motion", it will send an off.

 

If this is what you are looking for, I don't believe you need any program intervention.

I just did a test on the one in my office, v2.6. . . 

• Box checked
• Timeout set to 30
• If no motion is sensed after initial, OFF sent @ 30.
• If motion is sensed @ <7 seconds (approx) after initial motion: timer is reset, no signal is sent.
• If motion is sensed @ >7 seconds (approx) after initial motion: timer is reset, ON signal is sent each time motion is sensed, even before timeout.
• 30 seconds after last motion, OFF is sent

I don't know if that 7 seconds is proportional to the timeout setting or not, I'll check that. 

 

• Box unchecked
• Timeout set to 30
• If no motion is sensed after initial, OFF sent @ 30.
• If motion is sensed before timeout, timer is reset, no on signal is sent.
• 30 seconds after last motion, OFF is sent

So this is what you saw also.   I guess when they say 'sensing mode', what they really mean is transmitting mode.  They give the impression that unchecked it will not sense, but in reality is does sense and reset the timer, but does not transmit.  I thought it was not sensing at all and therefore was not resetting the timer.  So, yes, it should do exactly what I want it to when unchecked.  This makes more sense to me for an occupancy sensor.  If the timeout is 60 minutes, why transmit every time someone in the room moves and generate all of that network traffic?

 

Got it now, thanks!

Edited December 30, 2016 by jgcharlotte

[Teken]

Information Only: If conservation of power is one of the primary factors turning off the LED will offer this. One of the forum members did a battery voltage tests on the MS and based on his comprehensive testing it comes as no great surprise turning off the LED consumed the least amount of energy from the battery.

 

For me I've taken a three prong approach depending upon the location and area of the motion sensor in and around the home. If the MS is in a convenient location I use standard Duracell batteries. If the MS is exposed to very cold temperatures and is also very high mounted I use lithium battery cells.

 

For those areas where its extremely highly elevated and sees very cold temperatures I use rechargeable lithium battery cells wired to a regulated solar charging station.

 

No one wants to be scaling a 25 foot ladder when the mercury drops below -45'C.

 

NOTE: I am under no illusion or expect any Insteon device which isn't so rated for *Extreme Temperatures* to survive or offer the same amount of performance or service life. Since this was done as a proof of concept for Arctic Testing - As of this writing every device subjected to the extreme cold has still operated fine going on strong for 1-5 years.

[jgcharlotte]

Thanks, all, for the feedback!