PhanTomiZ Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hi, Today, had a power outage for about 25 minutes. When the power came back up, I had one device that had lost its status. Status was off when it was actually on. A quick "Query All" and the status was refreshed. What I'd like to do is run Query all whenever power has been restored. From the devices I already have in my system, what devices can I use to help me determine when the power has been restored? Any ideas would be appreciated PhanTomiZ P.S. Can't use the ISY as it is on a UPS. Devices: Insteon Dimmers On/Off Modules Keypad Links both Dimmers and On/Off I/O Lincs Thermostats wired and wireless Switchlincs both Dimmer and On/Off Insteon LED Light bulbs Link to comment
Teken Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Use the link I provided to you regarding the KPL repair and scan the thread for the power monitor using the I/O Linc. As noted in the how to article this shouldn't be relied upon as the first line of notification. Link to comment
stusviews Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Configuration, System window, do you have Query at restart checked? Link to comment
PhanTomiZ Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 Configuration, System window, do you have Query at restart checked? Yes, but the ISY is on a UPS, so it never restarts... Link to comment
PhanTomiZ Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 Use the link I provided to you regarding the KPL repair and scan the thread for the power monitor using the I/O Linc. As noted in the how to article this shouldn't be relied upon as the first line of notification. I quickly scrolled down and looks like your using CTs to determine power. I will study this tonight when I get done with supper. Thanks again Link to comment
Teken Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I quickly scrolled down and looks like your using CTs to determine power. I will study this tonight when I get done with supper. Thanks again No CT just the I/O Linc and Open-Close sensor . . . Once power has been lost it will close the relay and thus send a signal to the ISY Series Controller. For this to operate correctly some parts of the Insteon network may have to be given up in this case my friend placed the 2413S PLM on a filtered UPS. This allowed the Insteon RF signal to be received and relayed to the ISY Serie Controller. This was done to allow him a *Poor Mans* method to determine when the back up generator was activated. His end goals was to integrate the Insteon network to do specific tasks when the grid was down. This was as I understood it a poor mans method to load shed electrical loads in the home. As he didn't properly isolate all the circuits in the home when the transfer switch was installed. Link to comment
stusviews Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Why do you have the ISY on a UPS? There's noting to control if power goes down. And you disable powerline signaling. And what do you do if you get a message that you lost power? Not disagreeing, just curious. Link to comment
Teken Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Why do you have the ISY on a UPS? There's noting to control if power goes down. And you disable powerline signaling. And what do you do if you get a message that you lost power? Not disagreeing, just curious. Stu, Is that directed toward me or the OP? Link to comment
PhanTomiZ Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 Why do you have the ISY on a UPS? There's noting to control if power goes down. And you disable powerline signaling. And what do you do if you get a message that you lost power? Not disagreeing, just curious. Just thought it would be a good idea to have control of my Z-Wave door locks. Using RF ID tags through Tasker/ISY to unlock my side door. The PLM isn't on the UPS only the ISY. I'd like to do a "Query All" when power is restored to make sure all devices have the correct status. Link to comment
andyf0 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Why do you have the ISY on a UPS? There's noting to control if power goes down. And you disable powerline signaling. And what do you do if you get a message that you lost power? Not disagreeing, just curious. Exactly my thinking when deciding what to put on the UPS. If power goes out all the switches and outlets go out whether Z-Wave or Insteon. There's nothing to talk to except Z-Wave battery powered devices and they don't talk without being triggered or woken up. Presumably your internet connection goes out too so you can't even send a notification. It's much more useful to run a program on restart to let you know the power fail happened. You can do a Query All automatically on restart by checking the box on the configuration screen. Also, my Z-Wave locks have a number pad on them so I can (gasp!) use my finger if power is lost. Edited January 17, 2017 by andyf0 Link to comment
MWareman Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I have my ISY, GEM and Dashbox all on a UPS, with the PLM and the GEM voltage transformer directly connected to an outlet at my power panel. The Dashbox reports the GEM CT current values to ISY variables. I then have a program on the ISY that looks for my load at my power panel inputs dropping to zero to indicate a power out condition. I call a network resource on my Pi to begin shutdown of my MythTV frontends (all are on small UPSs) and other non-critical devices. My MythTV server waits for a low battery condition before shutting down (thru the ups USB connection). Even though my cable modem, firewall and switch are on a UPS, my Internet does not work (upstream device that requires power in the community I guess) so I have my ISY trigger a rule on my Elk to call my cell phone (it uses a cellular dialler, again battery backed). This works well enough for me... . A little expensive to setup from scratch if you don't have the Brultech and Elk kit already though... Link to comment
danbutter Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 my Internet does not work (upstream device that requires power in the community I guess)What type of ISP do you have? Both cable and DSL should have uptime for a least a while during an outage. Should be a couple hours minimum.If I were you I'd complain to the company. They are obligated to keep the batteries up due to the fact that people must maintain a way to call 911 and even cable companies are providing phone service these days. As for the power on or off I use the apc ups method and get an email to text to let me know if power goes out or comes back on. I don't know how ISY could tell though. I don't think you can send email to ISY. I plan to switch to a relay and hook it to my alarm panel which ISY can see thanks to IO guy and nodelink. Link to comment
MWareman Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 They are obligated to keep the batteries up due to the fact that people must maintain a way to call 911 and even cable companies are providing phone service these days. Cable Internet does not have that requirement... Apparently they only enable the power backup in the box at the end of our yards in my area if you subscribe to the phone service. Link to comment
Teken Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Cable and internet in many places are not considered essential services. This is why those who rely on the internet to connect to an alarm central station are playing with fire. Those using VOIP services are only provided limited service based on the systems UPS in place. POTS is always energized by the telco and isn't affected by a grid down event. ========================= The highest calling in life is to serve ones country faithfully - Teach others what can be. Do what is right and not what is popular. Link to comment
stusviews Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Just thought it would be a good idea to have control of my Z-Wave door locks. Using RF ID tags through Tasker/ISY to unlock my side door. The PLM isn't on the UPS only the ISY. I'd like to do a "Query All" when power is restored to make sure all devices have the correct status. Connect the sense wire of a Micro Module to line. Create a program that is triggered by the status of the Micro Module. Link to comment
larryllix Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 It could be done easily by having a RPi run a heartbeat program off an insecure AC circuit. Have ISY monitor the heartbeat. Nodelink already contains this feature if you have need, or use it, for anything else. Link to comment
PhanTomiZ Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 Too many separate responses, so I'll respond to all.... My main computer, DSL modem(Dry Loop), ISY, monitors and 1 camera are all on UPS. Good for about 35 minutes of run time. I didn't even realize the power went out until my wife came running upstairs to ask me what was wrong with the power. Threat of an ice storm today, but didn't materialize; only lots of rain. I did notice that my cameras went dead, so I'm thinking of possibly sending information from them to the ISY as some sort of a heartbeat. If more than 3 go dead then the power must be out. When they come back on, then I could send my Query. When the power was out, I was able to use the "udAjax" interface in Windows to lock and unlock my door. Also sent commands to my EcoVents to open/close. Both battery operated devices. So the commands for Z-Wave from my ISY on UPS made it to my Z-Wave lock and EcoVents. A great idea is using the UPS when it goes into discharge vs charging. Setting up a State Variable with this device may work also. Thanks danbutter. Another great idea is using a micro module sense wire to line. This would require the purchase of such device, but nonetheless another solution. Thanks stusviews. Finally, the I/O Linc and an open/close sensor. Thanks Teken... I'm sorta old school and like the "KISS" approach to things. It's even better if I can use what I've got, to come up with solutions. Thanks to all for the responses and I will get back to you when I've completed my task. It's great to have access to such a keen community. PhanTomiZ Link to comment
Teken Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 On a related tangent the I/O Linc and Open-Close sensor was used for some to determine when and if a AFCI / GFCI breaker - outlet had tripped. Some users have noted Insteon signals or other were tripping AFCI / GFCI's Some wanted to use what they already had on hand like you. Using this very simple configuration enabled them to know if and when the fridge, freezer, sump, what ever had lost power. In this specific use case extra auxiliary devices were not required. I would have no issues using this setup for that purpose so long as they understood the limitations. Link to comment
danbutter Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Cable Internet does not have that requirement... Apparently they only enable the power backup in the box at the end of our yards in my area if you subscribe to the phone service. Well granted it has been a few years since my time in the trenches, but it very much was a requirement when I worked for cable companies. Management was all over the field techs to make sure things were up to par for fear of FCC fines. Regardless of any laws the HFC network requires power to operate (as you notice when an outage occurs) and they do have battery backup in place when the plant is built. This is for all customers because they really can't separate out those who don't subscribe to VOIP. In your case the batteries are likely in need of replacement or the charger needs maintenance or both. Complaining could get it fixed for you. Link to comment
MFBra Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Sorry to reopen this thread... Is it possible to have ISY detecting and reporting an event "PLM" down ? It could work as a simple power failure detection for the ones who relies on UPS only for the ISY. I know a "side effect" could be detect and notify a possible PLM failure... of course with a disclosure explaining that further analysis would be required. It would help me to have proper notification prior to loose home monitoring and also dispatch "shutdown" commands to other equipment that lacks this detection, and finally run query all when power returns. Enviado do meu iPad usando Tapatalk Link to comment
stusviews Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Is it possible to have ISY detecting and reporting an event "PLM" down ? If power goes down, then the ISY can't send a message. If the ISY is on a UPS, the it won't power down nor be able to detect a power down. An external. battery powered device is needed. An I/O Linc and Open/Close Sensor can do that. Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 MFBra, You can also use Control 'is not Responding' on a few of your most important devices in a program. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
MFBra Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 If power goes down, then the ISY can't send a message. If the ISY is on a UPS, the it won't power down nor be able to detect a power down. An external. battery powered device is needed. An I/O Linc and Open/Close Sensor can do that. It's on a UPS and the "messages" would be over pushover or similar and dispatch some scripts on other hardwares. Enviado do meu iPad usando Tapatalk Link to comment
MFBra Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 MFBra, You can also use Control 'is not Responding' on a few of your most important devices in a program. With kind regards, Michel Never considered this route because when I lost my PLM the ISY entered in a "kind of" failure state (sorry I don't remember how do you call it). How fast is the "not responding" detection? Enviado do meu iPad usando Tapatalk Link to comment
Teken Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Never considered this route because when I lost my PLM the ISY entered in a "kind of" failure state (sorry I don't remember how do you call it). How fast is the "not responding" detection? Enviado do meu iPad usando Tapatalk If you're using the standard firmware it relies upon the 2413S PLM to be present. If you wish to have the ISY Series Controller ignore this problem you need only install the alternate firmware. Which completely ignores the 2413S PLM as being missing and not connected. Link to comment
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