Scene Communication Problems?

ronbo · July 14, 2017

I have a program that runs every morning to turn off my outside lights. At least once a week I find all the lights on. Last night I left a communication log running so that I could see what happening. I am hoping some could help me understand what the log is telling me.

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:23 AM : [ Time] 05:16:24 20(0)

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:23 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 3E CF 13 00

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:23 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 19 CF 13 00

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:23 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 14 CF 13 00

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:23 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 2A CF 13 00

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:23 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 27 CF 13 00

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:23 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.3E CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:23 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [A E3 18 1] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:23 AM : [ A E3 18 1] ST 0

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:23 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [A E3 18 6] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:23 AM : [ A E3 18 6] ST 0

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:23 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [22 BC B2 1] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:23 AM : [ 22 BC B2 1] ST 0

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:23 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [19 F4 1C 1] [sT] [0] uom=0 prec=-1

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:23 AM : [ 19 F4 1C 1] ST 0

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:24 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.19 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:24 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.14 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:25 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.2A CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:25 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.27 CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:50 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2F.7B.B9 3D.93.38 05 6F 45 (45)

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:50 AM : [std-Direct ] 2F.7B.B9-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:50 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2F 7B B9 1] [CLIHUM] [69] uom=0 prec=-1

Fri 07/14/2017 05:16:50 AM : [ 2F 7B B9 1] CLIHUM 69

Fri 07/14/2017 05:18:01 AM : [ Time] 05:18:02 20(0)

Fri 07/14/2017 05:18:02 AM : [ Time] 05:18:03 20(0)

Fri 07/14/2017 05:18:02 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 38 7D 8F 0F 40 01

Fri 07/14/2017 05:18:02 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 38.7D.8F 0F 40 01 06 (01)

Fri 07/14/2017 05:18:03 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 38.7D.8F 3D.93.38 2F 40 81 (81)

Fri 07/14/2017 05:18:03 AM : [std-Direct Ack] 38.7D.8F-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3

Fri 07/14/2017 05:18:31 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2F.7B.B9 3D.93.38 05 6F 46 (46)

Fri 07/14/2017 05:18:31 AM : [std-Direct ] 2F.7B.B9-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1

Fri 07/14/2017 05:18:31 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2F 7B B9 1] [CLIHUM] [70] uom=0 prec=-1

Fri 07/14/2017 05:18:31 AM : [ 2F 7B B9 1] CLIHUM 70

Fri 07/14/2017 05:19:56 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2F.7B.B9 3D.93.38 05 6F 45 (45)

Fri 07/14/2017 05:19:56 AM : [std-Direct ] 2F.7B.B9-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1

Fri 07/14/2017 05:19:56 AM : [D2D EVENT ] Event [2F 7B B9 1] [CLIHUM] [69] uom=0 prec=-1

Fri 07/14/2017 05:19:56 AM : [ 2F 7B B9 1] CLIHUM 69

Fri 07/14/2017 05:21:02 AM : [ Time] 05:21:03 20(0)

Fri 07/14/2017 05:21:03 AM : [ Time] 05:21:04 20(0)

Techman · July 14, 2017

Ronbo,

right click on your scene then click on scene test. Copy and paste the results in a post

ronbo · July 15, 2017

Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:54 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 3E 13 00 06
Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:55 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.E3.18 3D.93.38 61 13 3E LTOFFRR(3E)
Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:55 PM : [std-Cleanup Ack] 0A.E3.18-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0
Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:55 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 22.BC.B2 3D.93.38 61 13 3E LTOFFRR(3E)
Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:55 PM : [std-Cleanup Ack] 22.BC.B2-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0
Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:55 PM : [CLEAN-UP-RPT] 02 58 06
Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:55 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 19.F4.1C 3D.93.38 61 13 3E LTOFFRR(3E)
Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:55 PM : [std-Cleanup Ack] 19.F4.1C-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0
Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:56 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2F.7B.B9 3D.93.38 0A 6F 48 (48)
<html>----- S-Front.Yard Lights Test Results -----</html>
<html>[succeeded] Entry.Kpd.6 - Walkway Light (A E3 18 6)</html>
<html>[succeeded] Front.Yard - Pedestal (19 F4 1C 1)</html>
<html>[succeeded] Front.Yard - Walkway (22 BC B2 1)</html>
<html>[succeeded] Front.Yard - Eve Lights (A E3 18 1)</html>
<html>----- S-Front.Yard Lights Test Results -----</html>
Sat 07/15/2017 12:07:02 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 3E CF 13 00
Sat 07/15/2017 12:07:02 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.3E CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

Techman · July 15, 2017

Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:54 PM : [GRP-RX ] 02 61 3E 13 00 06

Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:55 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 0A.E3.18 3D.93.38 61 13 3E LTOFFRR(3E)

Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:55 PM : [std-Cleanup Ack] 0A.E3.18-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:55 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 22.BC.B2 3D.93.38 61 13 3E LTOFFRR(3E)

Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:55 PM : [std-Cleanup Ack] 22.BC.B2-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:55 PM : [CLEAN-UP-RPT] 02 58 06

Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:55 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 19.F4.1C 3D.93.38 61 13 3E LTOFFRR(3E)

Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:55 PM : [std-Cleanup Ack] 19.F4.1C-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=0

Sat 07/15/2017 12:06:56 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 2F.7B.B9 3D.93.38 0A 6F 48 (48)

<html>----- S-Front.Yard Lights Test Results -----</html>

<html>[succeeded] Entry.Kpd.6 - Walkway Light (A E3 18 6)</html>

<html>[succeeded] Front.Yard - Pedestal (19 F4 1C 1)</html>

<html>[succeeded] Front.Yard - Walkway (22 BC B2 1)</html>

<html>[succeeded] Front.Yard - Eve Lights (A E3 18 1)</html>

<html>----- S-Front.Yard Lights Test Results -----</html>

Sat 07/15/2017 12:07:02 PM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 3E CF 13 00

Sat 07/15/2017 12:07:02 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.3E CF 13 00 06 LTOFFRR(00)

The scene appears to be working correctly, there's no error message.

One possibility is that something that's on in the morning, at the same time the scene is supposed to turn off, is interfering with the scene's off signal.

When the scene fails do all the lights remain on that the scene is supposed to turn off, or is it just one or two lights?

paulbates · July 15, 2017

Another thing to look at is mixing scene commands and direct device commands back-to-back in the same ISY program. If you do, place the scene command first and then the direct command. Or use at least a 2 second wait command between each direct command followed by a scene command.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ronbo · July 16, 2017

My original post was actually taken at five in the morning on the day the scene failed I'm not totally sure how to read the diagnostics but didn't look to me like it showed any problem. And yes when it fails all the lights in the Scene are one it's as if the scene never ran

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ronbo · July 18, 2017

Any Ideas? As I stated I am not sure how to read the Comm trace, But I don't see anything indicating a problem in the trace that was captured when the scene failed.

?

paulbates · July 18, 2017

Can you post your program? You have the symptoms of a device command acknowledgement "stepping on" a scene command communications, which can happen when an ISY program had back to back device and scene command, and looks like this:

If

(its dawn)

then

....

set 'device off'

set 'scene off'

...

In this scenario, the acknowledgements from the 'set device' statement broadcast over the scene command and give results similar to what you are seeing.

Paul

ronbo · July 18, 2017

Thanks for looking Paul...

If Sunrise - 20

Set Scene Front Yard Lights off

Set Scene Front Porch Light Off

Set Scene Rear Yard Patio Off

Set Scene Front Yard Driveway Off

Set Scene Living Room Light Off

else

Dr Pepper · July 18, 2017

Thanks for looking Paul...

If Sunrise - 20

   Set Scene Front Yard Lights off

   Set Scene Front Porch Light Off

   Set Scene Rear Yard Patio Off

   Set Scene Front Yard Driveway Off

   Set Scene Living Room Light Off

else

Can I suggest some very basic ideas? First idea you can try and put a 30 second wait in between each line of the program. While may not be desirable it would probably minimize any clash possibilities. Second idea would be to create one scene with all of the devices you want to shut off. That two would probably minimize any clash. Third idea would be if each scene has one device is to use the actual device to turn off and not a scene (not ideal if you use KPL buttons that would be out of sync etc.).

My guess is that there is some clash going on and some or all do not turn off consistently. If not that you may have communication issues from noise etc. Could be anything from a AC unit to a Coffee Pot running some days at that time.

paulbates · July 18, 2017

Waits should not be needed in this case because there are not direct device commands. Scenes are all fire and forget with no response. A short wait could be tried.. typical insteon responses for device control, even with multiple retries is 3 seconds.

Some other things to try:

To DrPepper's point, use the admin console to exercise the scenes on/off 5-10 times in a row. (If there some that seems to be worse, pick them). Does manually exercising each scene work every time, or are there problems?
Is there another program that would run off of this same trigger, if so, does it control devices, or what does it do?
While keeping your existing scenes, create an additional one that contains everything in the other 5. Use that single scene in your program. I do something similar with my lamps, premise and yard lights each day. 20+ devices/ keypad buttons

Paul

mwester · July 19, 2017

A few other thoughts:

- what else is ON at that time of day? Think hard, look all over, ignore nothing. Does someone always have a phone charger plugged in early morning, which may have been unplugged when you tested your scenes? (Yep, those little phone chargers, especially the cheapo no-name units, can kill the Insteon signal for a good portion of your house!) How about other lights on the property - especially any on solid-state timers, or any that are LEDs? They may be on in the AM and interfering, and off when you tested the scene.

- run the program several times, staggered, every day. Doesn't hurt to turn off a light more than once. I do that for my evening "turn on" program -- the problem I suspect is that the gigantic HPS yard light, which is on a dusk-to-dawn sensor. When it's turning on, the sodium bulbs are known to be electrically noisy -- so I just ensure that the other exterior lights (which are on Insteon switches) get turned on a few times, about 10 minutes apart, just to make sure. (I do have good intentions of adding Yet Another filter up in that HPS light, and replacing the dusk/dawn sensor with something I can control -- but I don't have a ladder tall enough to reach, and renting a lift truck to do that isn't going to happen until that light burns out...)

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