2477S ISY bug?

[pilotgeek]

I set up two 2477S in a simple scene l -- both set at controlsponders (or controllers depending upon perspective)

 

And my son almost instantly found an issue.  He (instinctively -- he is 5) held down the off side of the paddle on the remote.  After a couple of seconds -- tick --  the remote (which is not connected to a load) shows the LEDs indicating off.  But it does not cause the scene to shut off.  The same issue exists in the on direction.  It is clearly triggering dimming -- as the 2477S is a controller for dimming even though it is not a responder.

 

So the question is:  How do I make it so that holding the paddle still sends the on/off signal as appropriate when talking to an on/off only scene?

 

Regards,

Neal

[larryllix]

You could use an ISY program to translate the dim signal into an Off signal.

 

IIRC all SwitchLinc paddles send out all the dimming signals despite their own load controls circuits not capable of dimming.

 

If

....SwitchLinc is switched dim Fade Down

Then

....set SwitchLinc Off

Else

...---

 

 

Edit: Corrected termimology

Edited August 2, 2017 by larryllix

[pilotgeek]

I guess I could create a program for every scene involving 3-way 2477S switches.  But that seems like an awful hack.

 

So is that what everyone does?  Or does everyone just ignore the bug?

 

Regards,

Neal

[paulbates]

Neal

Its not a bug, its working as designed. "Press and hold"= activate dimming.

 

Even on/off switches exhibit this behavior for when they participate with load responders that dim. I have a number of keypad buttons and switches that I use this feature/behavior on.

 

Paul.

[pilotgeek]

Neal

Its not a bug, its working as designed. "Press and hold"= activate dimming.

 

Even on/off switches exhibit this behavior for when they participate with load responders that dim. I have a number of keypad buttons and switches that I use this feature/behavior on.

 

Paul.

Paul,

 

I agree with most of what you wrote.

 

However, if I have a scene which has only on/off, it should be possible to limit the scene as such.  As it stands if I send the "dim" command from the non-load 2477S, the local relay [which is attached to nothing] flips after a second or so, but the remote switch is never signaled through the scene.  That means that the local switch would read "off" when the scene and remote switch still read "on".  That is what appears to be a defect.  Or just as likely I am doing something wrong.  Hence my questions.

 

Regards,

Neal

[lilyoyo1]

It's not a defect. Its all about the command you send. By dimming it down, you're technically sending a different type of command that a relay switch doesn't not know. It's sort of like using a computer. If you click down on a link and let go, out opens that link. However, if you click on a link, hold your mouse, and move it off, the link doesn't open.

[larryllix]

Get a SwitchLinc Dimmer that understands the commands sent.

 

Possibly petition SH to make an option to disable the dim/brighten command from the 2477S SwitchLincs. They may listen and actually do something in a few decades.

 

OR

 

Get an ISY994i problem solver and learn to make things work your way!

[stusviews]

Possibly petition SH to make an option to disable the dim/brighten command from the 2477S SwitchLincs. They may listen and actually do something in a few decades.

 

That'd be terrible. I have an S device that's wired to a non-dimmable load, but it's also a scene controller that sets a couple of dimmers to other than full on. A program introduces a delay that I really don't want. Plus with a program, devices respond sequentially. Scenes provide simultaneous responses.

 

OTOH, I can live with the change if it takes a few decades to implement

[pilotgeek]

Get a SwitchLinc Dimmer that understands the commands sent.

 

or

 

Get an ISY994i problem solver and learn to make things work your way!

I cannot use a dimmer on the load end as the load is non-dimmable (large quantity of CFL pole lights in the garage).

 

I have a 994i.. and I can certainly put the described hack in place.  But it will require 2 programs (one for bright and one for dim) for every 3 way switch (as opposed to dimmer) in my network.  I was just hoping there was a better work-around available.  Like:

• a way to disable the dim scene output on a 2477S switch (would probably require SH to fix)
• a way to enable the dim to 0 scene input to count an off (and vice versa -- I think UD could fix)

As best I can tell there is no scenario which dim messages would be useful when the only responder is a switch.

 

Regards,

Neal

Edited August 2, 2017 by pilotgeek

[larryllix]

I cannot use a dimmer on the load end as the load is non-dimmable (large quantity of CFL pole lights in the garage).

 

I have a 994i.. and I can certainly put the described hack in place.  But it will require 2 programs (one for bright and one for dim) for every 3 way switch (as opposed to dimmer) in my network.  I was just hoping there was a better work-around available.  Like:

• a way to disable the dim scene output on a 2477S switch (would probably require SH to fix)
• a way to enable the dim to 0 scene input to count an off (and vice versa -- I think UD could fix)

As best I can tell there is no scenario which dim messages would be useful when the only responder is a switch.

 

Regards,

Neal

I have 400-500 programs running. I got most of them really cheap.

 

One very simple solution was offered in post #2 that could solve one "problem". If you can hold down a paddle for a few seconds then the delay incurred by the Insteon protocol using an ISY program should not be noticed. It should take you about 2 minutes to install and it will last for years.

Edited August 2, 2017 by larryllix

[pilotgeek]

I have 400-500 programs running. I got most of them really cheap.

 

One very simple solution was offered in post #2 that could solve one "problem". If you can hold down a paddle for a few seconds then the delay incurred by the Insteon protocol using an ISY program should not be noticed. It should take you about 2 minutes to install and it will last for years.

While I have lots of programs in my ISY, this is this first one I wrote to get around an issue.  But so be it.

 

If course the ISY knew I was a bit bitter about it.  The program you suggested did not work as written.     Specifically it does not run though it is enabled.

 

Regards,

Neal

[lilyoyo1]

Simply status of the load switch is off then set the scene off

[larryllix]

While I have lots of programs in my ISY, this is this first one I wrote to get around an issue.  But so be it.

 

If course the ISY knew I was a bit bitter about it.  The program you suggested did not work as written.     Specifically it does not run though it is enabled.

 

Regards,

Neal

My apologies. I used the wrong command signal. I have since corrected it.

 

Try the switched Fade Down, It will work as one of the simplest programs, f your devices are linked to ISY properly.

 

Right click on your program, copy to clipboard,  and post it here using the advanced editor (More Reply Options)

 

They are not hacks, they are programs, and why you didn't get  a Hub. 

 

The programming may seem tough at first but you will find it very enabling.

[mwester]

Reading this topic, a couple things jump out at me:

 

First, I don't think the behavior of the device is as big a problem as the original poster does - but to each his own; it clearly is a big deal for some.  Given that, it would be nice if each switchlinc device had a setting to disable the fade up/down, since *THAT'S* the real problem.

 

Second, anything to do with the scene being "on/off" is wrong -- the root issue is that the device sending the command is sending a command that isn't wanted.  The challenge here is the same one that comes up every few months in one context or another, and that is that there's no such concept as a scene having a value.  You can't say a scene is "on" or "off" or 38% bright -- that's just not how Insteon works.  Now, one can consider that design to be a mis-feature - but it's not going to change.   The issue is that each device in the scene determines how it responds to the command that was just sent.  So sending an "on" to a scene usually turns on everything associated with the scene - but that's not necessarily the case.  Turning on the switchlinc on the wall in my family room sends an "ON" to everything in the room - but the cans that wash the wall turn on to only 50%.  So what's the value of that scene?  It's not off, that's for sure.  But is it on?  Some of the lights are 100% on.  Some of them aren't dimmable, so they're just ON (with no percent).  And three of them are on at 50%.  And it gets worse - with the new scene support inside the ISY, one can add node servers for totally custom devices.  So I can add my newest invention to the afore-mentioned scene - the mwesterLinc.  When it gets and ON signal, it blinks green, red, and purple, plays the opening bars to "take me out to the ballgame", and spins a propellor round and round a dozen times, then goes back to sleep.  Is it "ON"?  Or what?  (Yes, it's stupid -- and with a node server, we can even add that as it's value: "Off" and "Stupid" could be completely valid values!  So what's an on/off scene, then??)

 

Anyway, the above is just to illustrate that the concept of "On/Off", while it seem simple and obvious, like so many other things that are obvious to humans is very difficult for simple devices.  This is a case where a program running on the ISY is the right place to sort out what "On" and "Off" means for a given scene -- and that make's Larry's suggestions far from a hack.  That makes those suggestions absolutely the right way to go, and the very reason you have an ISY in the first place!

 

Now, about that mwesterLinc -- I'm taking orders.  Wanna buy a few?  

[larryllix]

I'll order one but I want the scene to indicate Off when it gets to the second last bar of the music. Better to be scene and not heard.

 

You aren't the guy selling scenes on eBay are you?

 

I have a scene called "All Off" that I use every night. It's an Insteon ALL OFF   simulator since I can't seem to get one when I need one.

 

OK,..let's not make a bigger scene here. Are we bored (sp?) yet?

 

 

BTW: I just finished up my OB Mate3 modbus interrogator with ISY stuffed parameters. My RPi3 will  never get a divorce from my ISY now. Now what do I do with the data? I wanted to know about solar levels for ISY logic but the PV panels are covered in snow for months in the winter.

hhmmmmmm...think some of the blind controls would work for PV panel wipers?

Edited August 3, 2017 by larryllix

[pilotgeek]

My apologies. I used the wrong command signal. I have since corrected it.

 

Try the switched Fade Down, It will work as one of the simplest programs, f your devices are linked to ISY properly.

 

Right click on your program, copy to clipboard,  and post it here using the advanced editor (More Reply Options)

 

They are not hacks, they are programs, and why you didn't get  a Hub. 

 

The programming may seem tough at first but you will find it very enabling.

Yes.. Tried the fade down, and it works -- slowly.  For my purposes, that will be fine.  Thank you for the help.

 

I was using the term hack in the sense that it should work another way, but alas, I have to settle. 

 

The scripting environment is quite powerful -- though documentation is kind of thin.  Would be easier if I could just code it in Java.

 

Cheers,

Neal